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EpDis: Crusade: Ruling From The Tomb
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
KoshN
Super Moderator
Care to explain? This is the episode of Crusade that I grade the lowest, but right now, having just come in from work, and with my brain really frazzled (Some people today got on my last nerve.), I'll be damned if I can recall any "continuity errors" in Ruling from the Tomb. I am going to watch it tonight before I grade it and make any comments.
KoshN
Super Moderator
'D' - Poor. IMHO, the worst Crusade episode. Worse than War Zone. The connections and logic in a lot of the main story seemed forced, artificial and sometimes didn't make sense. The dialogue was sometimes clunky. The whole idea of a physical meeting was bad, as Gideon comments. The fight scenes were poorly choreographed and acted.
I liked only the character moments, e.g. Eilerson, Dureena and Trace in the shuttle, Eilerson and Dureena when walking in the street in Mars Dome, Gideon and Lochley at the first crime scene, the bar scenes, etc.
Also, the initial CGI looked very good to me, as good as any Mars scenes we ever saw on "Babylon 5".
The "music" (irritating noise actually, boings, babies crying, dogs barking, etc.) over the end credits was hideously bad. It was thoroughly unprofessional, self-indulgent crap on Chen's part, and I cannot use the word crap strongly enough here in relation to the "music" on during the end credits. THAT should have been rejected by the producers. This episode was made 3rd from the last, and it must have been when the producers were at a low ebb and just didn't give a damn.
Were it not for the character moments I listed above, I'd have given it an 'F' - Failure. I almost gave it that anyway.
I liked only the character moments, e.g. Eilerson, Dureena and Trace in the shuttle, Eilerson and Dureena when walking in the street in Mars Dome, Gideon and Lochley at the first crime scene, the bar scenes, etc.
Also, the initial CGI looked very good to me, as good as any Mars scenes we ever saw on "Babylon 5".
The "music" (irritating noise actually, boings, babies crying, dogs barking, etc.) over the end credits was hideously bad. It was thoroughly unprofessional, self-indulgent crap on Chen's part, and I cannot use the word crap strongly enough here in relation to the "music" on during the end credits. THAT should have been rejected by the producers. This episode was made 3rd from the last, and it must have been when the producers were at a low ebb and just didn't give a damn.
Were it not for the character moments I listed above, I'd have given it an 'F' - Failure. I almost gave it that anyway.
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I agree, I rewatched this episode recently remembering it as being one of the weakest (along with Rules of the Game), and was surprised to realise that if you filter out the actual plot it's actually one of the better ones in terms of character interaction and dialogue. JMS' writing seemed to be showing signs of fatigue from S4 onwards, and it's an odd fact that Fiona Avery and Peter David seemed able to contribute scripts that sounded in some ways more quintessentially JMS than JMS himself.
Yeah, some B5 episodes had established the idea of using different music over the end credits, but in those cases it was always relevant in some way and made sense in the context of the episode. Here it just seemed completely gratuitous and meaningless.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Crusade also did that on a couple of occasions:
In an ep. when Galen left listening to his own music on his ship, and it carried over onto the end credits.
The Needs of Earth - the music, probably from the recovered data crystals, is played as Gideon walks down the hallway, away from Dureena's quarters. It's probably Dureena playing that music.
KoshN
Super Moderator
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Sindatur
Regular
Is the other one Each Night I Dream of Home? I thought that episode had been re-edited to gloss over it (People keep mentioning this, but I've never noticed that they meet for the first time twice - in fact Gideon's first words to Lochley are 'good to see you again Captain', and we can probably assume that her being injured is the only reason they don't make a beeline for the nearest shower).
KoshN
Super Moderator
IF ANYBODY HAS "RULING FROM THE TOMB" SCRIPTS, I'M CURIOUS IF THERE WAS ANY VERSION WITHOUT THE GIDEON/LOCHLEY INTRO. DIALOGUE.
This is the episode where Lochley meets Gideon for the first time. It's obvious in the non-looped dialogue at the beginning of the episode.
The other episode to which you're referring, Each Night I Dream of Home, got looped (The original words got replaced. You can tell by the different sound of Gideon's lines.), and it was evidently planned to be the episode where they first met.
Each Night I Dream of Home, Pink Revisions, Sept. 9, 1998. brief excerpt:
ACT TWO
36 INT. MEDBAY
A recently-awakened Lochley is in a medbed as Gideon enters.
GIDEON
I hope I'm not bothering you. They told me you were awake.
LOCHLEY
No, it's fine.
GIDEON
(extends a hand)
Captain Matthew Gideon, Earth Alliance Starship Excalibur.
LOCHLEY
Captain Elizabeth Lochley, Babylon 5.
GIDEON
What happened?
LOCHLEY
We'd set a trap for some raiders.....~
Each Night I Dream of Home is now to be their second episode together, and The Rules of the Game, their third and last together (in the produced Crusade 13 episodes).
This is the episode where Lochley meets Gideon for the first time. It's obvious in the non-looped dialogue at the beginning of the episode.
The other episode to which you're referring, Each Night I Dream of Home, got looped (The original words got replaced. You can tell by the different sound of Gideon's lines.), and it was evidently planned to be the episode where they first met.
Each Night I Dream of Home, Pink Revisions, Sept. 9, 1998. brief excerpt:
ACT TWO
36 INT. MEDBAY
A recently-awakened Lochley is in a medbed as Gideon enters.
GIDEON
I hope I'm not bothering you. They told me you were awake.
LOCHLEY
No, it's fine.
GIDEON
(extends a hand)
Captain Matthew Gideon, Earth Alliance Starship Excalibur.
LOCHLEY
Captain Elizabeth Lochley, Babylon 5.
GIDEON
What happened?
LOCHLEY
We'd set a trap for some raiders.....~
Each Night I Dream of Home is now to be their second episode together, and The Rules of the Game, their third and last together (in the produced Crusade 13 episodes).
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Sindatur
Regular
Hmmm...I don't recall a change of dialogue. I just know in the episode on Mars they meet for the first time, and he doesn't know her when he picks her damaged ship up. When or where was this edit done? On SciFi airing, on the DVD set?
Jan
Regular
The line where he's greeting Lochley in Medlab was looped before the episode ever aired. You'll notice that you can't see Gideon's face at all as he speaks the 'Good to see you again' line. It's slightly telltale after he invites her to dinner in is quarters when she asks him if he'll be serving anything bigger than her head and he says "Not of a first date".
Jan
Jan
KoshN
Super Moderator
That's the looped line.
KoshN
Super Moderator
The looped line in Each Night I Dream of Home establishes that they have met before.
No, not in what we were shown in the produced episodes.
Jan
Regular
I just verified the looping in Each Night. In every copy of the script that I have (first Draft-8/3/98, Final Draft-8/19/98 and shooting script-through Blue Revisions 9/9/98) Gideon and Lochley introduce themselves.
I knew hanging on to these early drafts would come in handy!
Jan
Yeah, I thought that might be a loop.
I found one of the things JMS mentioned on one of the commentary tracks pretty scary - that after the hiatus in production and the uniform change there was some kind of debate with TNT as to whether the 5 grey suit episodes should actually go through post and be completed at all.. <shivers>
I found one of the things JMS mentioned on one of the commentary tracks pretty scary - that after the hiatus in production and the uniform change there was some kind of debate with TNT as to whether the 5 grey suit episodes should actually go through post and be completed at all.. <shivers>
Sindatur
Regular
I just verified the looping in Each Night. In every copy of the script that I have (first Draft-8/3/98, Final Draft-8/19/98 and shooting script-through Blue Revisions 9/9/98) Gideon and Lochley introduce themselves.
I knew hanging on to these early drafts would come in handy!
Jan
So, I did remember correctly, they introduce themselves to each other in both episodes, afterall?
Jan
Regular
No, not in the versions that were aired. As I mentioned earlier, in the final, aired version Gideon is looped saying that it's good to see Lochley again as he walks into her room in the Medbay. His back is toward the camera and you can't see his face at all.
In the *script* if 'Each Night I Dream of Home', they introduce themselves. That part was cut in the aired episode.
Jan
