"Mystery object" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

\"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

As many of you who have watched the commentaries on the B5 Movies set, there is a reference made by John Iacovelli to an object that appears in many Sci-fi movies...put there by the crew. I believe the commentary was on "The Gathering." In the commentary JMS tried to get him to tell him what it was, and he wouldn't. Here is a recent JMSNEWS post about the subject:

From: jmsatb5@aol.com (jms at b5)
Subject: Re: ATTN JMS: Iacovelli's Mystery Object?
To: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated
Date: 8/23/2004 7:04:56 PM

No Thread

>Now it's driving me crazy -- did John ever tell you what the mystery
>object was that has supposedly appeared in *every* sci-fi movie/tv
>project? And, more importantly, is it true?

Yeah, it's true, and no, he wouldn't tell me.

>Who are those three guys John spoke about?

There was a group of folks in the art department who were referred to jointly
as the Woodland Creatures...Dark, Bear, and Dragon (two of which are real
names, the third is a nickname, I'll let you do the investigation on that one).
There could not have been a more apt description of these guys...

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2004 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)

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I think I remember him describing it as smaller than a bread box, and larger than a coke can. Basically it is something that this crew named "the woodland critters" puts on everything sci-fi they do, and its a big secret. A couple things about this aren't clear to me.

Many people are saying this object appears in EVERY major Sci-Fi movie, tv series, or miniseries. I wonder if this is true.

Wouldn't it make sense that it is only shown on shows THIS particular crew do? Like their signature kind of thing? If thats the case, perhaps it isn't on EVERYTHING but on several shows.

Apparently it appeared in Season 5 of B5.

Does anyone know other shows/movies this group of people did, and if they have an idea of what this silly thing might be?

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Wouldn't it make sense that it is only shown on shows THIS particular crew do? Like their signature kind of thing? If thats the case, perhaps it isn't on EVERYTHING but on several shows.

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You are not the only one to think this, Recoil.

I simply don't believe that "every" (as in every single) science fiction movie or t.v. project could possibly mean "every".

Someone is exaggerating or misquoting or assuming we are stupid.

I'll be happy to rewatch "Metropolis" (made in the days of silent films) to look for any object in question.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Wouldn't it make sense that it is only shown on shows THIS particular crew do? Like their signature kind of thing? If thats the case, perhaps it isn't on EVERYTHING but on several shows.

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To paraphrase a former president, it depends on what the word "do" means. That particular crew may or may not be the primary physical effects, odd-ball props team working on set for a particular production, but stuff they build may be rented by whoever is on set for a shoot. The world of SF and Fantasy props and set materials in and around Hollywood is a small and incestuous one. A surprising amount of this stuff is built under contract by outside specialty companies and doesn't end up belonging to the studio when the project wraps. So an item can be dusted off, repainted, a mold made from it and duplicates of it run off easily, and all of these show up in multiple TV shows and movies as they are rented borrowed and traded around. Thus N'grath ended up on Buffy, the same damned monitors and banks of flashing lights ended up in every cheapo Irwin Allen SF TV show and the original lab equipment from Frankenstein and Bride of Frankenstien also graced the set of Mel Brooks's parody Young Frankenstein.

In this case the Oscillation Overthruster from Buckaroo Bonzai has also appeared as part of the legendary Flux Capacitor in Back to the Future as well as assorted objects in various B5, DS9 and other TV episodes and movies, not all of which directly involved the Woodland Creatures.

Regards,

Joe

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Maybe this Oscillation Overthruster is the object.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

What kind of time frame are they talking about? Every science fiction film ever made? I seriously doubt that.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Thus N'grath ended up on Buffy

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So that's what happened to him! Much is now clear... and why do I feel like I should have known this already?

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Maybe this Oscillation Overthruster is the object.

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That was the intent of Joe's post. Joe Nazarro over at jmsnews.com has "outed" the oscillation overthruster as the mystery device in question. I believe it was designed by a Mr. John Smallberries of Grovers Mill, New Jersey in 1934.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

So once again I ask: exactly which science fiction films are they talking about? American-made? Starting from the date "Buckaroo" was made?

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

What kind of time frame are they talking about? Every science fiction film ever made?

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Well, since the guys responsible were providing props and set dressing for B5 and DS9 in the mid-to-late '90s, chances are they didn't work on, say, Metropolis in the '20s. Nor is it likely that the did the original Solaris, which shot in Russia if memory serves, or any of the incarnations of Dr. Who.

I'm guessing they (and their friends) just worked this thing into every shoot they could for many years. Since someone at least friendly with the Woodland Creatures probably worked on every major TV and film SF project from the early 80s to the present day (and since we don't know the Oscillator was first constructed for BB, it may have been left over from some earlier project) it could be in all of those, from Buck Rogers to Enterprise with stops in between at InnerSpace and Armageddon.

Sorta like the model-makers sticking a tiny R2D2 on the surface of the alien mothership in Close Encounters. After awhile seeing how many projects they could smuggle it (or a facsimile) onto must have become a game in itself.

Regards,

Joe

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

The world of SF and Fantasy props and set materials in and around Hollywood is a small and incestuous one. A surprising amount of this stuff is built under contract by outside specialty companies and doesn't end up belonging to the studio when the project wraps. So an item can be dusted off, repainted, a mold made from it and duplicates of it run off easily, and all of these show up in multiple TV shows and movies as they are rented borrowed and traded around.

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Thus the reason Sinclair is wearing the spacesuit from "2010" in "Babylon Squared".

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Thus the reason Sinclair is wearing the spacesuit from "2010" in "Babylon Squared".

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Exactly. Babylonian didn't have the money to build a spacesuit from scratch (especially since JMS knew he'd need more than one to fit different actors in the eventual second half), so it made more sense to rent. They might have preferred something less obvious, but the 2010 suit(s) were what was available, so that's what they took. It is one of those obscure odities of Hollywood that a small group of specilists and collectors make a very comfortable living renting furnishings, weapons, high quality reproductions of artwork, even bits and pieces of architecture or entire houses to the film business. (There are certain houses in the Los Angeles area that have been featured in literally hundreds of TV shows and movies.)

Then there is the vast amount of stuff that the studios themselves actually do build, keep and store, and which gets rented and traded back and forth among them all, thus a recognizable Warner Bros. prop might show up on a series shot at Fox or Paramount and vice versa.

Regards,

Joe

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

That's pretty interesting. I didn't know the business of science fiction special effects was that narrow of a field. Although I do know the robot from "Forbidden Planet" had been reused a few times.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Hypatia said:

That's pretty interesting. I didn't know the business of science fiction special effects was that narrow of a field. Although I do know the robot from "Forbidden Planet" had been reused a few times.

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Look at how many true sci-fi movies and TV shows are made every year and it doesn't seen that far fetched.

There was one year the only suspense about the SFX Oscar was what film would get it, because all the nominated films were done by ILM.

Yeah, incestuous is the word for it.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Well, at least Weta is breaking up ILM's monopoly on that area.

And yeah, Robby the Robot apparently made the rounds. I liked the fact that they listed him as Robby in the credits, rather than as a special effect.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

This is probably a dead topic but i was just listening through the audio commentary for the gathering here at work and decided to look into this. I dont think it is the overthruster that is being referred to. check out Dragon Dronet on IMDB. his is definatly one of the woodland creatures prop people talked about in the commentary. he has done props from life pod in 1980 to chronicles of riddick in 2004 and worked on babylon 5 for props as well as a couple of the star trek series'. also, the overthruster is smaller than a pop can so i think there is something else.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

This is probably a dead topic but i was just listening through the audio commentary for the gathering here at work and decided to look into this. I dont think it is the overthruster that is being referred to. check out Dragon Dronet on IMDB. his is definatly one of the woodland creatures prop people talked about in the commentary. he has done props from life pod in 1980 to chronicles of riddick in 2004 and worked on babylon 5 for props as well as a couple of the star trek series'. also, the overthruster is smaller than a pop can so i think there is something else.

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I will have to try to find it again, but one of the prop guys (I think) from B5 definately said somewhere on the net that it was the Oscillation Overthruster being referred to here.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commen

I dont think so, I think that was used as an EXAMPLE of something that was used a few times in different movies...but not the B5 object in question.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commentary

Well I would have noticed the overthruster in at least one of their movies since buckaroo banzai has been one of my all time favorites since the late 80s when i first saw it. The lights on the flux capacitor looking like the control planel for the overthruster was actually a reference, not a use of the same prop so that wouldnt count anyways. The names mentioned on the audio commentar were dark, dragon and bear. I have found that two are Dark Hoffman and Dragon Dronet but I dont know who Bear is since that seems to be the nickname one. dark and dragon have not worked on either back to the future or buckaroo banzai. my first assumption myself when i heard about this mystery prop was the PKE meter from ghostbusters since the exact prop turned up in several movies such as carpenter's they live. since these guys havent worked on those movies and i havent seen the prop show up in movies or shows done by these guys and in fact havent seen that prop show up in anything in the last 10 years i figured that couldnt be it either.

Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commen

I dont think so, I think that was used as an EXAMPLE of something that was used a few times in different movies...but not the B5 object in question.

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Acording to Bear Burge

Have you every seen Buckaroo Banzai? This is the 'overthruster', an intricate piece of that film. It has since then been used for Star Trek in various incarnations: first as a Cardasian piece and then in the movie Star Trek : First Contact, where it was used as an engine component in the Phoenix. On BABYLON 5 we used one of these components in the scene where G'Kar is looking for Mr. Garibaldi, and hands him the engine piece which was scavenged from his Starfury.

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Re: \"Mystery object\" mentioned in Movie DVD Commen

i'll have to look into that a bit. do you know the first name of these bear burge? apparantly he doesnt ever take a screen credit for anything he does because the only burge to ever work on any sci fi type movies was len burge who worked on terminator 2 and jurassic park. the overthruster is also smaller than a pop can so the clues giving in the audio commentary are wrong as well if this is what they meant. i watched first contact on wednesday but i missed the overthruster, i'll have to watch the part when they launch the phoenix again tonight. i think that was the overthruster in the scene of babylon 5 becasue we did comment on that when it first was shown, i had forgotten that tho.