EpDis: Points Of Departure

Beginning season two!

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Points Of Departure
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Points Of Departure

I give this one a B .Good opener for the 2 second season establishes the minbari hatred of Sheridan .

One thing that really annoys me about the episode is how many times characters repeat the "honor and death" bit. It was too repetative to me in attempts to illuminate Sheridan's thought process in figuring things out. I would have much prefered it done more subtle.

Nah, I don't like the Minbari-centric episodes much.

And this one quite sensibly doesn't resolve any of the cliffhangers from Chrysalis and just focuses on introducing Sheridan. But I think the whole 'Sheridan is not Sinclair because the Minbari hate him' thing is a bit overdone. And his fetish for oranges and showing his teeth too. Still, it's amazing how much his character changes over the years.

Also, this episode commits the cardinal sin (in my book) of going through all the buildup to a battle that then doesn't happen, or happens offscreen, or in your imagination. That used to be DS9's favourite budget-saving trick..

This may be Jerry Doyle's favourite episode but not mine.. I'd still give it a C, though.

Two things I did quite like in this episode:

One, I liked Lennier's part. He got to have several different emtional states, and he got to bust out the revelation of why the Minbari surrendered at the Battle of the Line, which is something quite significant for a minor main character, which he had more or less been to that point.

Two, I liked Hedronn's conversation with Sheridan in Sheridan's office. "I would tell you -- if I recognized your authority." Burnt! I think I've enjoyed Robin Sachs in every alien role he's playe don Babylon 5.

I gave it a C because I don't care for the actress that plays Sheridan's sister.

Like. Like lots. Some great setup for John, showing his strengths in tactics and reasoning. His "Captain Smiley" thing is important too, as that grin is going to get *well and truly* knocked off over the next 4 years. :devil: You must admit, Johnny's in for a rough ride! We are also very cleverly put in the same place as the crew, as this new guy is sprung on us all of a sudden, and we neither know him or if we can trust him. And for some weird reason, those
"A coccoon? Like a moth or a butterfly?"
"Yes sir. 'Bout yay high."
"Interesting pace you have here."
lines just crack me up every time!

I gave it a C because I don't care for the actress that plays Sheridan's sister.

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That's okay then, cause she's in Revelations!

A few excellent lines, such as the aforementioned one about the cocoon and the "paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate" one.

Personally I really enjoy Sheridan, and so even though he seems a bit of a puppydog with his smiling and oranges, you also see his resourcefulness, his courage, and his introspection here. And frankly it's just a bit of a comfort to have him aboard -- he's the Captain!

I gave it a C because I don't care for the actress that plays Sheridan's sister.

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That's okay then, cause she's in Revelations!

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Oh yeah. **Hits self in the head.** I knew that!

Hello, I'm new to the forum, so be kind!

Points of Departure: I was hovering between a B and a C for this episode. Compared to the rest of season 2, it feels very different, and to be honest I found that many of the season openers had a different feel to them. Its hard to explain- maybe its just the series trying to find its feet again at the start of the new season.

The first time you see this episode it feels massively significant, what with the arrival of Sheridan and Lennier revealing to him and Ivanova what happened to Sinclair at the Battle of the Line. But now, looking back, it doesn't feel that important.

In this episode we see one of the big EA destroyers for the first time- I really like those ships. And Sheridan takes a huge risk at the end when interpreting what the Minbari captain had said, I suppose to show that he has a tactical brain and can 'think outside the box' but it doesn't quite come off as convincing to me.

Points of Departure: I was hovering between a B and a C for this episode. Compared to the rest of season 2, it feels very different, and to be honest I found that many of the season openers had a different feel to them. Its hard to explain- maybe its just the series trying to find its feet again at the start of the new season.

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Yeah, I know what you're saying. This first ep of season 2 is kinda like a whole new show. There's no more Commander Sinclair, but a Captain Sheridan instead. That in itself gives a new feel to season 2. Plus Delenn is in her cocoon. After she comes out, she's not the same Delenn any more. Plus Garibaldi is in Medlab with a PPG wound.

After she comes out, she's not the same Delenn any more

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Delenn isn't the same character peiod once Sinclair leaves and Sheridan comes in .

This first ep of season 2 is kinda like a whole new show.

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Some visual things change as well.. The blue earth force uniforms gain a red trim and flight wings. Garibaldi's grey uniform gains a green trim and flight wings. (The changes cause a slight anomaly in the continuity, since the EA uniforms in In the Beginning feature these trims and badges..)

Some of the sets are also redesigned, specifically the corridor walls have a new colour and texture, and C&C gets a facelift. It really is a completely different show..

Man, I never notice stuff like that.

I love this episode for the way it really drives in a very important plot point of B5 that way too many people seem to forget: The Minbari suck.

So you're fighting a "holy war" over a misunderstanding, that you KNOW to be a misunderstanding. Your holy war isn't anything more than genocide, effectively. Somewhere along the line, one human manages to defend himself and actually hurts your war machine - he doesn't even injure any civilians.

So what do you do, as a species completely obsessed with honor?

You go "boo hoo, starkiller, starkiller!" and spend several decades whining. What a bunch of pisspots. Reminds me of the asshole German that assaulted my mother a few years ago for all the pain Germany went through at the US' hands in World War II. Want to avoid pain and suffering? Don't wage unnecessary wars.

Also, all this crap of how MInbari never lie and never hurt eachother .. like hell they don't. They're just better at it than everybody else.

Oh, and the only thing that made them willing to stop pointless genocide? Noticing that humans have Minbari souls, which is a load of crap anyways. What pure motives...

Yea. Very good points.

I don't think there really was a race or a character that didn't have a dark side and a light side, so to speak. The "seemingly sacred" Minbari included.

I wonder, with people being who they are, enough of a word got about among Humans that Valen was really Sinclair, gone back through time with station B4. They'd be stunned to know the race that gave the Minbari such an edge in technology was... us.

I know the Minbari already had spacefleets able to survive space battles. But wouldn't that "sneak peek" at future technology help spur what they already knew?

Maybe not, and they were just advanced because they evolved earlier than we, and the Vorlons gave them a lot of help. But I've always wondered just how much the Minbari learned technologically from Sinclar, as well as what they learned about organizing themselves into some kind of an effective government.

Very nice intro to Captain John Sheridan (Bruce Boxleitner) I really love this episode even though a whole lot doesn't happen until the very next episode Revelations. Minor complaint on this thread.. I was going to vote but it's shown as Quality of Mercy? I love Sinclair but Bruce Boxlietner has a way of putting a smile on everyone's face even non Babylon 5 fans Garibaldi still in coma..I can't wait til he's out of it

Alex

hypatia said:

Yea. Very good points.

I don't think there really was a race or a character that didn't have a dark side and a light side, so to speak. The "seemingly sacred" Minbari included.

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Yes, indeed. But at least the other races seem quite aware of that. The Humans, Narns and Centauri never pretend to not have their own agenda. The Minbari, on the other hand, go around with all the pseudo-pacifist holier-than-thou crap, which really makes them the biggest creep of the lot - with the exception of the Vorlons, of course.

hypatia said:

I wonder, with people being who they are, enough of a word got about among Humans that Valen was really Sinclair, gone back through time with station B4. They'd be stunned to know the race that gave the Minbari such an edge in technology was... us.

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Well .. the Minbari were keeping this knowledge under a pretty tight lid - though I forget exactly what happens in the fourth season here. Not sure if humans would have ever gotten to hear about it.

hypatia said:

I know the Minbari already had spacefleets able to survive space battles. But wouldn't that "sneak peek" at future technology help spur what they already knew?

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This is the kind of stuff which makes time travel stories headachy.

I don't think human tech from the "present" was much ahead of Minbari tech from a thousand years ago. The Minbari would have come out losers of the last shadow war without Babylon 4 and Sinclair, though, and would not have been the smug major power to attempt to erradicate humans thousand years later. And no Earth-Minbari war .. no Babylon project.

No Minbari victory --> no Babylon 4.
No Babylon 4 --> no Minbari victory

It all kind of works out in the end if you see time as circular, and assume that the Minbari victory, and B4's trip back in time, were "always there" .. or something.

Babylon5fan07 said:

I was going to vote but it's shown as Quality of Mercy?

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There is a bug with poll titles on older polls. It is only the titles, though, you can vote normally.

Chilli said:

No Minbari victory --> no Babylon 4.
No Babylon 4 --> no Minbari victory

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Re-watching the series again, and reading up on the comments again. So, read this and thought to correct it

It was established that the Minbari win the war 1000 years ago without B4, however, at the cost of more Vorlons / troops, therefore they have the inability to survive the war that is to come ... hence the foreshadowing in Season 1 about B5 being destroyed. That was the future that was going to be, if B4 wasn't sent back in time.

That is one thing I really liked about B5, time travel was used, but it wasn't to crazy in its circular logic.

S.