EpDis: There All The Honor Lies

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Lurker's Guide Main Page for There All The Honor Lies
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for There All The Honor Lies

Maybe I'm too stingy with my A's, but I gave it a B. It does have some good political intrigue, but my favorite bit is Sheridan's "lesson" of "beauty in the dark."

Gotta watch for those scheming Minbari!

Raised above spear-carrier "C" status by having a lot of Kosh in it.

"The lessons must be working. You're starting to talk like a Vorlon."

I reserve my A votes the the really mind-blowing eps so this one gets a B. Like Jade Jaguar, my favourite part is beauty in the dark - great stuff!

It is also nice to have J. C. Brown back for an ep ..... even if she isn't in her Narn make-up. She still has a bit of her sarcastic sensibility.

Yeah, you get to see her as she really is, not as a Narn.

I gave this one a B gotta love those minbari eps.

This is the first B5 episode I ever saw, when I started watching the reruns on TNT, so it holds a special place in my heart.

It was a nice intro for me, since it covers Sheridan's actions in the Earth-Minbari War, has a lot about the Minbari with all the interaction among Delenn, Lennier, and Ashan, and of course the "beauty in the dark" scene with Kosh. Also, the Londo doll scene is great, especially Ivanova's comment. This episode was the first step in getting me hooked.

Yeah, I love the doll thing.

The merchandising at the beginning is a very amusing subplot! I was wondering - is it actual real life B5 merchandising? Ivanova's comment on the "last best hope for a quick buck" amuses me as well.

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

I like the glimpses we get of Vir's character and dilemma and of the relationship between him and Mollari. There are always those moments that make us *like* Londo, aren't there?! Also, his complaint about the Mollari doll is really funny - it's belittling him because the "attributes" are missing! Ivanova's word play with a barely cut off (oops, pun unintentional but too good to remove!) "cast-ration" is another amusing bit of dialogue. I looked up the author of the episode and am not surprised to see that it's Peter David. He's a well-known name, having written some good stuff for Star Trek as well.

I like it when some of the intro lines get used in episodes - this time, "all alone in the night". To which experience of being left alone in space is Sheridan referring? I don't recall offhand. Delenn's variation "all alone in a crowd" is poignant. It's interesting to see her working against Sheridan at first in this episode, knowing how their relationship will develop later on.

The items in the gift shop were made up specially for the episode and later sold at cost to the cast/crew. JMS got the Londo and G'Kar dolls and they were later part if his 'yard sale'.

I **loved** the moment of perfect beauty! Not just the chant, the lighting and the way the whole scene combined. I think it may have helped that the first time I saw it, I was pretty tense myself and when the music/chant started I just took a deep breath and let it all go.

Jan

Jan said:

I **loved** the moment of perfect beauty! Not just the chant, the lighting and the way the whole scene combined. I think it may have helped that the first time I saw it, I was pretty tense myself and when the music/chant started I just took a deep breath and let it all go.

Jan

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I loved it too, as you say, for the whole scene, lighting, and the setup.

I was pretty surprised that there wasn't a gift shop with tourist kitsch like that on Babylon 5, from the get go. And "demeaning"? Okay, yeah, it's kitsch, but I guess I'm too jaded with the commercialism of our day to see such a strong reaction to this idea as believable from our command staff. And a gift shop, even if it was government run like those at national parks and such, would be assigned to the supervision of much more junior staff than Ivanova. The revenue it generates would probably be a drop in the bucket of overall station revenues, anyway.

Estelyn said:

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

Click to expand...

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

C.L.U. said:

Estelyn said:

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

Click to expand...

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

Click to expand...

I never put those two together, but sounds like that could be true!

That was one of the most beautiful moments of this series. One moment of perfect beauty.

C.L.U. said:

Estelyn said:

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

Click to expand...

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

Click to expand...

YES!!! Finally someone else who thinks that it was the pak'ma'ra!! My husband and I have argued about that a bit. My impression was that they were the pak'ma'ra, and it was the simplicity and the contrast between the low crawl space they were in and the soaring of their voices. Truly perfect beauty!

Alexa said:

C.L.U. said:

Estelyn said:

I must confess, the "moment of perfect beauty" did not impress me much - I would have expected something more than the singing of monks, which seems too normal to be sublime. I guess beauty is in the ear of the listener in this case.

Click to expand...

I like to think that these monks were pak'ma'ra, if only based on Vir's touching story in Sleeping In Light about Londo and him hearing them sing with a voice full of sadness, hope, wonder and a terrible sense of loss. The pieces fit.

Click to expand...

YES!!! Finally someone else who thinks that it was the pak'ma'ra!! My husband and I have argued about that a bit. My impression was that they were the pak'ma'ra, and it was the simplicity and the contrast between the low crawl space they were in and the soaring of their voices. Truly perfect beauty!

Click to expand...

So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?

Sindatur said:

So...this isn't an established fact? Damn, I thought this was a foregone conclusion. Now I have to face the possibility it's a silly Fanboi interpretation?

Click to expand...

It's not anything verified via JMS or the script, no. But I've always felt is was the pak'ma'ra, too. Why they were doing a Gregorian chant is anybody's guess, not to mention why they did it regularly enough that we heard them singing it again in "Passing through Gethsemane".

Jan