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EpDis: Voices Of Authority
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Springer
Regular
I find this episode to be surprisingly cheesy. The Nightwatch story is entertaining, with the politcal officer, and you're right, there are some good lines (Sheridan: It must be colder in here than I thought!} but there are some bad lines too, like "Zog!" Its the portrayal of the First Ones I like the least about this episode. Usually B5 is clever, intelligent and full of a sense of wonder, but on this rare occasion the scene with Ivanova and the First Ones seems a bit stupid to me. Its played for laughs, which doesn't work, and I was looking for that sense of wonder. I want to give it a B, because this episode is almost asking to be liked, but it doesn;t quite gel for me. But maybe that's just me. So I'll give it a C.
And Draal has to be the most annoying charcter in B5.
And Draal has to be the most annoying charcter in B5.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
That's one that popped into my head earlier too.
GaribaldisHair
Regular
We've already had the moment of "Wow" with those particular first ones, when they appeared in S1 and almost took out Sakai's ship (I forget which ep it was).
Here we see how the White Star crew react to their presence and, let's face it, put Marcus and Ivanova into that sort of situation and they are going to react in those ways. Rather than necessarily being "played for laughs" I thought the characters reacted in pretty much exactly the way I would have expected.
Solid B from me.
Here we see how the White Star crew react to their presence and, let's face it, put Marcus and Ivanova into that sort of situation and they are going to react in those ways. Rather than necessarily being "played for laughs" I thought the characters reacted in pretty much exactly the way I would have expected.
Solid B from me.
Sindatur
Regular
Yea, that's kinda the way I've always seen it too, you can't really blame the writer for the cheeze, you have to blame the characters. The scene called for those two characters, so that's what you ended up with. Writing it differently, wouldn't have been as true to the characters, you would have to use different characters, if you wanted to change the writing.
B5_Obsessed
Regular
I especially like it for Ivanova's Wild Ride. Any opportunity to break out the Requiem theme is a plus in my book.
Galahad
Regular
I loved the unexpected twist during Ivanova's adventure in the Great Machine.
The Earth Conspiracy/Civil War story needed something big to blow it wide open... and there was no obvious direction from which that something was going to come. Cue the excellent out of the blue sequence where Ivanova obtains a recording of the secure channel dialogue between Morden and Clarke.
The Earth Conspiracy/Civil War story needed something big to blow it wide open... and there was no obvious direction from which that something was going to come. Cue the excellent out of the blue sequence where Ivanova obtains a recording of the secure channel dialogue between Morden and Clarke.
Somehow the phrase Deus Ex Machina seems really appropriate in this case.
Elipsis
Regular
This is how I felt at first as well. Then my roomate made the excellent point that any signal transmitted through space would still remain in space traveling outward.
If you've got a (latent) telepath fixated on the corruption of Earth tearing through space with her mind in a machine capable of intercepting those signals and decoding them... she is actually quite likely to cross space that is carrying that signal.
(Similar to how our first radio transmissions still exist in space.)
OR
the machine is just powerful enough to rip stored transmissions off of a shadow ship... but I like the first one better from a sciency perspective
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Galahad
Regular
It depnds what context you mean Deus Ex Machina.
I think RmcD meant it in it's secondary meaning not initial. It was an intentional use of a godlike power plot development... because the conspirators had been incredibly efficient in covering their tracks.
JMS wasn't painting himself out of a corner, I think he deliberately intended to do it that way. The Great Machine is a powerful tool and has been monitoring space for eons. It also shares a connection with the person in it's control matrix. Perhaps telepathy increases the "volume level" of a person's thoughts and so the machine already being sensitive enough to read the conscious thoughts of a normal individual, picks up the background stuff in a telepath with ease.
If that is the case can you imagine what would happen if a P12 got inside the thing?
I think RmcD meant it in it's secondary meaning not initial. It was an intentional use of a godlike power plot development... because the conspirators had been incredibly efficient in covering their tracks.
JMS wasn't painting himself out of a corner, I think he deliberately intended to do it that way. The Great Machine is a powerful tool and has been monitoring space for eons. It also shares a connection with the person in it's control matrix. Perhaps telepathy increases the "volume level" of a person's thoughts and so the machine already being sensitive enough to read the conscious thoughts of a normal individual, picks up the background stuff in a telepath with ease.
If that is the case can you imagine what would happen if a P12 got inside the thing?
Estelyn
Regular
I found several things annoying in this episode - Draal's voice, for one. I wonder, is that a conscious decision by the powers that be, to make us dislike him ever so slightly, or does that voice just come with the actor? I do like his change of attitude to Ivanova, with the line "I like you - you're trouble."
Ms. Musante is also very annoying, and that belongs to the bureaucrat role she plays. Any charm she might exhude comes across as manipulative. It is amusing to see how Sheridan struggles to deal with the seduction attempt tactfully. The Trek variation line ("about to go where everyone has gone before") is hilarious!
The ideological aspects give me the shivers - it's happened too often in the past and it is very easy to see how it can happen in the future. The linguistic games played to mask the truth ("temporary abridgements", "ideologically pure", etc.) are uncomfortably close to home.
I wasn't very fond of the iconic totem appearance of the First Ones, but I did like their ships, with the coloured lights. They looked very different, alien, yet beautiful - if these are the same First Ones Sakai encountered, were the ships identical? I don't remember how those looked.
I hadn't thought about Ivanova's latent telepathic abilities when I saw this and only grasped the significance after reading the guide and the comments here. For that reason it does make sense that she, not Sheridan, had to go to the planet.
Ms. Musante is also very annoying, and that belongs to the bureaucrat role she plays. Any charm she might exhude comes across as manipulative. It is amusing to see how Sheridan struggles to deal with the seduction attempt tactfully. The Trek variation line ("about to go where everyone has gone before") is hilarious!
The ideological aspects give me the shivers - it's happened too often in the past and it is very easy to see how it can happen in the future. The linguistic games played to mask the truth ("temporary abridgements", "ideologically pure", etc.) are uncomfortably close to home.
I wasn't very fond of the iconic totem appearance of the First Ones, but I did like their ships, with the coloured lights. They looked very different, alien, yet beautiful - if these are the same First Ones Sakai encountered, were the ships identical? I don't remember how those looked.
I hadn't thought about Ivanova's latent telepathic abilities when I saw this and only grasped the significance after reading the guide and the comments here. For that reason it does make sense that she, not Sheridan, had to go to the planet.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Yes, these First Ones, the Walkers of Sigma 957 as they're often called based on a line of G'Kar's dialogue about them back during season one, are the same ones Sakai encountered.
Lennier's Tears
Regular
A good episode, entertaining and with quite a bit of excitement. There are some parts I don't like as much as others, but overall I quite like it.
About the "code 7R" thing. I've always kind of wondered about the security of those links. Everyone around you can hear what the person on the other end is saying. I suppose that everyone knows that and takes that into account when they "page" someone, but, look what happened here! Perhaps they should have come up with a more inconspicuous message for their super secret meetings.
The Night Watch has shed all subtlety now. It's gone full on creepy. I like the Night Watch storyline a lot. And poor Zack, unable to make up his mind. I think that storyline made me extremely nervous the first time I watched, when I didn't know that Zack would do the right thing in the end. I really wanted him to come around!
Julie Musante isn't just annoying, she's ... scary. It's interesting that she chose that particular tactic to get to Sheridan. Obviously she expected that to work. She must have done her homework on Sheridan before she came to the station, and still expected seduction to be the most successful strategy to deal with him. What does that mean for the information the government has on him? Beyond the basic "well, he's widowed and presumably lonely". If Musante suspected he was hiding anything important, wouldn't she expect him to react exactly the way he did? Maybe she didn't think about it too much and just went for a strategy she successfully used in the past.
Unlike some other people here, I actually quite like Draal
I like Ivanova's trip into space via the great machine, although I still don't quite understand "the path". That's OK, though, I can just go with it
I like Ivanova and Marcus on the White Star, but I'm not crazy about the interaction with the "Walkers". I kinda like that they speak with Kosh's voice, but other than that ... Ivanova tricks a super advanced race into going to war against their ancient enemies by insulting their ego? That's a bit much for me.
Did Sheridan recognize Morden's voice in that recording or did he not? He spent a lot of time with him when he illegally detained him. If we, the audience, can recognize his voice presumably he can, too. I don't remember if that is ever commented on in future episodes. I guess I'll just have to keep watching
"I don't read Narn" "Learn!" Haha
About the "code 7R" thing. I've always kind of wondered about the security of those links. Everyone around you can hear what the person on the other end is saying. I suppose that everyone knows that and takes that into account when they "page" someone, but, look what happened here! Perhaps they should have come up with a more inconspicuous message for their super secret meetings.
The Night Watch has shed all subtlety now. It's gone full on creepy. I like the Night Watch storyline a lot. And poor Zack, unable to make up his mind. I think that storyline made me extremely nervous the first time I watched, when I didn't know that Zack would do the right thing in the end. I really wanted him to come around!
Julie Musante isn't just annoying, she's ... scary. It's interesting that she chose that particular tactic to get to Sheridan. Obviously she expected that to work. She must have done her homework on Sheridan before she came to the station, and still expected seduction to be the most successful strategy to deal with him. What does that mean for the information the government has on him? Beyond the basic "well, he's widowed and presumably lonely". If Musante suspected he was hiding anything important, wouldn't she expect him to react exactly the way he did? Maybe she didn't think about it too much and just went for a strategy she successfully used in the past.
Unlike some other people here, I actually quite like Draal
I like Ivanova's trip into space via the great machine, although I still don't quite understand "the path". That's OK, though, I can just go with it
I like Ivanova and Marcus on the White Star, but I'm not crazy about the interaction with the "Walkers". I kinda like that they speak with Kosh's voice, but other than that ... Ivanova tricks a super advanced race into going to war against their ancient enemies by insulting their ego? That's a bit much for me.
Did Sheridan recognize Morden's voice in that recording or did he not? He spent a lot of time with him when he illegally detained him. If we, the audience, can recognize his voice presumably he can, too. I don't remember if that is ever commented on in future episodes. I guess I'll just have to keep watching
"I don't read Narn" "Learn!" Haha
