EpDis: No Surrender, No Retreat

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for No Surrender, No Retreat
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for No Surrender, No Retreat

One of my favorites of the whole show for several reasons. It manages to be a heavy arc episode, but at the same time its not so complicated that you can't jump right in. Its refreshing and a lot more interesting to see a big space battle where the goal isn't to wipe out the enemy fleet, but is to get them to see your point of view. It also doesn't hurt that the special effects kicked ass in this one too.

The scene in G'kar's quarters with Londo was amazing, and one of my favorites between them. It was somewhat of a role reversal in that Londo was being the serious one for the most part, while G'kar was more mocking and insulting.

There are a lot of things that come together and work very well in this episode. I give it an A.

I loved this episode, it's one of my favorites! I love the way it written, the effects, and the performances...everyone was just excellent. I especially liked the way Bruce played this one. He is soooo sexy when he takes charge! He's usually just cute, and I prefer the hair a little longer... but ooooh baaaby!

Did I mention that I liked the story, too? I really did!!

All thumbs up!

Obviously a heavy episode, I wouldn't have like it if they didn't approach the killing of Earthforce officers with the appropriate gravity, but they did.

I gave it an A, but can someone tell me how a whitestar gets destroyed by an Earthforce ship?

^ I don't think there has been any indication that the lasers on EAS destroyers are not powerful enough to do this. They are tech the Narn sold humans during the Earth-Minbari war (though I can't remember where I read/saw/interpreted that bit!). And 3 Narn cruisers were able to combine their Laser firepower to disable a Shadow vessel...

A+ defintely. One of my top 10 episodes. Story, action, tactics and all the usual requirements including a great LonKar scene.

You also have to remember that Sheridan was aiming to win the battle to a different set of criteria to the Earthforce fleet.

1) He wanted wavering Earthforce ships to sign on with him
2) He wanted enemy ships to surrender and be handed over to the authorities.
3) He needed to continually disprove any notion that he was an enemy of Earth itself.

Therefore if he'd have gone full tilt with the whitestars and gone out of his way to destroy the hardcore Clarke vessels, he'd have probably eliminated any hope of winning round the other ships.

Clarke's ships did not have that moral predicament and had no reason to hesitate in "blowing him out of the sky".

Much more importantly, if I recall... the Captain of the EAS Furies - Stephanie Eckland... was rather hot. She didn't get any speaking lines though alas... and i can't find any screen caps etc.

I'm in the process of watching the series... again, and this truly was a wonderful episode. Great Maker that I love the scene at the bar counter when G'Kar comes there and has the drink with Londo and how Londo takes his glass afterwards and puts it next to his own. The music just makes this for me and I notice myself swallowing back my tears every time I see the scene.

Few episodes back there was Rumours, Bargains and Lies, and I think it's one of the best episodes on the show because it's funny and doubles as a detective story for the viewers. I enjoyed tremendously putting the pieces together of what Sheridan was doing. Simply brilliant idea.

Kudos JMS, again and forever.

I like how the episode begins, almost like a prelude: the military sound of drums, which has been used in similar situations before to great effect, combined with the preparation of the war room and Sheridan marching there through the corridors. I also enjoy seeing how Lt. Corwin is shown taking on greater responsibility - I like that characters can grow and change in this show.

Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?

I like the tactics discussion, with the good ideas about fooling Earth forces into thinking they would be attacking elsewhere first.

The Londo/G'Kar scene is wonderful! I can't help feeling for Londo when he tries to express his feelings about the past, only to have his thanks and respect rejected. He obviously truly regrets his actions, but G'Kar is not interested in forgiving him and turns down his gesture of peace. But he too is capable of growth and change, as we see in the final scene between the two of them. Now it's Londo who's showing humility...

I agree that it's good to see that Sheridan isn't fighting his own people lightly, giving them a chance to back down peacefully. The story is well constructed in that the captains of the various ships react differently - they don't all flock to his side with flying colours. The variations on mutiny are interesting, with the clear call to activate one's own conscience, not just to follow orders because they come from above.

Above all, I like the statement that it's not a victory, just a mission objective achieved. There's no jubilation because the losses are tragic. Sheridan says the voters will decide who's right or wrong; that may sound very democratic, but are we sure that voters make correct decisions? Where would they get the information needed to do so?

And finally, we see Garibaldi leaving the station - has Edgars called him, or is he breaking with it at his own initiative, for his own reasons?

Susan's classic line: "Trust Ivanova, trust yourself, anyone else, shoot 'em." Didn't she say something like that earlier in the series?

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The earlier statement that you're thinking of might be the "Babylon 5 mantra."

"Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is god. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out."

It's from season one's A Voice In The Wilderness.

Well, this episode is just great, start to finish. It starts out pretty tense right from the first scenes with the military-style drums and the shots of people hurrying around with a purpose. It never really lets up after that. The story is excellent. There's an impressive space battle (and as always in B5, it's set against the background of a shiny nebula), but it's a very complicated space battle. It's all about the respective captains (and the people under them) having to make up their minds about what is morally right. Excellent.

I like seeing young lieutenant Corwin again, holding the fort.

I also like seeing Vir again, with his long, high status hair! Poor guy, clearly still have nightmares about his recent assassination experience.

The scenes with G'Kar and Londo are excellent as always.

The Garibaldi plot thickens! He plans not to return!

There's nothing here for me to criticize. It's just excellent. I may have more to say about that when I'm not tired, but "excellent" describes it pretty well. I think the Earth conflict is my favorite part of the Babylon 5 story, so I like everything to do with that.

Boxie said:

I especially liked the way Bruce played this one. He is soooo sexy when he takes charge! He's usually just cute, and I prefer the hair a little longer... but ooooh baaaby!

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Oooh baby is pretty accurate Bruce is very sexy - mostly because he's not just a pretty face. He can be pretty intimidating and dangerous and commanding. And he's really not a bad actor. "Let's see if we have survivors - or allies." A simple phrase - but well delivered, and I got goosebumps.

dreamer said:

Great Maker that I love the scene at the bar counter when G'Kar comes there and has the drink with Londo and how Londo takes his glass afterwards and puts it next to his own. The music just makes this for me and I notice myself swallowing back my tears every time I see the scene.

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That is an excellent scene. B5 is very good at changing pace, which makes some scenes all the more meaningful and 'heavy' in all the right ways. Which episode had the ending where there was no sound at all? Extremely effective. Also this scene here, after all the fighting and suspense who's going to do what and will there be any new allies etc. there's this rather a quiet scene where nothing much happens - and yet, *everything* happens.

Also the earlier scene - Londo at G'Kar's quarters - was very well done. Again and again I marvel at the acting skills of Katsulas and Jurasik. True professionals.

Estelyn said:

I like how the episode begins, almost like a prelude: the military sound of drums, which has been used in similar situations before to great effect, combined with the preparation of the war room and Sheridan marching there through the corridors. I also enjoy seeing how Lt. Corwin is shown taking on greater responsibility - I like that characters can grow and change in this show.

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Agree on everything. The drums were very effective. And I too like the way Corwin has quietly gained more of a place for himself. From the sidelines - just barely having a name and a short line every once in a while - to the, well, not to the forefront but at least having a sturdy role as a supporter of the forefront, so to speak, and some kind of an actual personality.
Since one of the best things in B5 is that people learn, change, grow, it's nice that they let that happen to the "less important" characters as well.

And Ivanova.... I love her. Truly. WHAT a character! Trust Ivanova. Trust yourself. Anyone else? Shoot 'em.