EpDis: Between The Darkness And The Light

Refresher Links:
Lurker's Guide Main Page for Between The Darkness And The Light
Lurker's Guide Extended Synopsis for Between The Darkness And The Light

One of the heavy hitters of season 4. Just awesome viewing!

For me this suffers from being placed amidst a run of truly stand-out episodes. I rate both Face of The Enemy and Intersections In Real Time higher than this one, so it only gets a good from me.

That isn't to say it is not a great ep in itself, it just isn't as great as some of the others around it, and it has some great moments.

I thought that the Ivanova "God sent me" speech worked pretty well the first time I saw it, but was less effective upon repeated viewings. Still, I remember how I felt when this first aired, and so rate it excellent.

Man, those were the days when I literally was antsy between episodes, because JMS was always frakking with us! I was not at all sure Sheridan and co. were going to win this time around. There was, after all, another season to go.

I loved that speech, and this episode! Every time I watch it, it hurts to see Sheridan like that...and those scenes at the end with Susan just rip your heart out. I gave it an "A" and would have upgraded it if there was anything higher!

A-.

A heavy episode, all this life risking finally has terrible consequences for one of our main characters (though as we find out in the next episode... not as expected).

One of the top episodes of season 4, especially Ivanova's contribution. She's come a long way from the first season where she pointed out she was a Russian in every other episode and a Jew in the ones in between.

maneth said:

She's come a long way from the first season where she pointed out she was a Russian in every other episode and a Jew in the ones in between.

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Fresh from rewatching this episode, I'm still deeply moved by the tragic ending. Just when it looked like Ivanova was beginning to warm to Marcus (having recognized his Minbari compliment and thanked him for it), she gets fatally injured. (And yes, I know what comes next, but it doesn't take away the feeling that overwhelms me now.) Her deathbed conversation with Sheridan is all about the war, about her role as a commanding soldier and his recognition. More important than the words are the faces - it's heartbreaking to see Marcus' bleak expression and the tears both he and Delenn shed.

Wrenching my thoughts back to the previous events...

Interesting that Sheridan's drugged vision of Franklin comes true when the doc and the others rescue him. Garibaldi gets stabbed in the back - an echo of his own actions, figuratively stabbing Sheridan in the back.

Interesting also the reaction and cooperation of the League worlds and the accompanying quote: politics and morality on the same side?!

Lyta's strength as a telepath, getting through P12 blocks, seems almost limitless at this point.

A pivotal episode!

Drugged-up Sheridan, on seeing Garibaldi in the rescue party: "Michael... boy was I gonna kick your butt for something... but I don't remember." Classic line!

I kind of thought that the place they were holding Sheridan, the biggest fish they ever caught, would have been much more heavily guarded--or that he would have been transferred to Earth much sooner after his capture (they had him on Mars for a week or so already). But thank God for the arrogance or whatever it was on Earthgov's part that made it fairly easy to spring him.

Oh but that little tizzy Lyta got into about Garibaldi's joke ("I'm gonna sue somebody!") while walking through the tunnels into enemy territory (maybe you should do that more quiet-like)--that was cringeworthy.

Overall an excellent ep though, or at least one of that group of excellent eps that make up the climax of the Earth Civil War.

Alioth said:

I kind of thought that the place they were holding Sheridan, the biggest fish they ever caught, would have been much more heavily guarded--or that he would have been transferred to Earth much sooner after his capture (they had him on Mars for a week or so already). But thank God for the arrogance or whatever it was on Earthgov's part that made it fairly easy to spring him.

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Mars at this point is the power base for Psi Corps... who are Clarke's "allies". I can well imagine Bester pulling a few strings to keep him on Mars so that Psi Corps could eventually play with him.

Alioth said:

But thank God for the arrogance or whatever it was on Earthgov's part that made it fairly easy to spring him.

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They didn't think Garibaldi was much of a security risk since he's the one who turned Sheridan in.

JoeD80 said:

Alioth said:

But thank God for the arrogance or whatever it was on Earthgov's part that made it fairly easy to spring him.

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They didn't think Garibaldi was much of a security risk since he's the one who turned Sheridan in.

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Yeah, but I meant the fact that he was not under heavier security, let alone moved to Earth, to guard against rescue by anyone (such as the Mars resistance). But Galahad had a point that PsiCorps had a (secret) stronghold at Syria Planum (not sure if that's where his holding facility was) on Mars, so that may be why they had him there. But Garibaldi did suspect (or had heard) that they would move him to Earth soon, where a rescue would be all but impossible--which sort of supports my point that Earth would be a more secure place to hold their most prized prisoner.

This may be reaching, a fanwank, but maybe the underground tunnels led them far enough beneath and to the part of the facility where Sheridan was being held to get past most of the heavier outer security...


hmmm, so how come my signature doesn't show up at the bottom of my posts?


_

signature here.....

I like this episode a lot. It has so much really great stuff going on in it, and also some REALLY sad stuff. Aside from the obvious sad ending, I'm always sad when I see Ivanova and Marcus interacting here, because it's the last time we get to see that

The Mars resistance bit with Garibaldi is pretty tense stuff. Number 1 wasn't just ready to shoot him and be done with it, she had already pulled the trigger. Close call there, and very fortunate that Lyta has some Vorlon superpowers now.

I like the Sheridan rescue stuff. It's pretty exciting. The "I'm going to sue somebody" bit is cringetastic indeed, but everything else is pretty good. I also enjoy "Michael, I was going to kick your butt for something but I don't remember what". I find it amusing that "butt" is apparently the strongest word Sheridan can come up with in that situation

Interesting that the League of Non-Aligned worlds has un-buffooned to come to Sheridan's aid. Good for them.

The continuing fight for Earth stuff is all great. Those Shadow technology Earth destroyers look creepy as hell. The White Star fleet looks cool as ever. I'll never tire of watching them maneuver like that.

Sad, sad ending

Alioth said:

JoeD80 said:

Alioth said:

But thank God for the arrogance or whatever it was on Earthgov's part that made it fairly easy to spring him.

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They didn't think Garibaldi was much of a security risk since he's the one who turned Sheridan in.

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Yeah, but I meant the fact that he was not under heavier security, let alone moved to Earth, to guard against rescue by anyone (such as the Mars resistance). But Galahad had a point that PsiCorps had a (secret) stronghold at Syria Planum (not sure if that's where his holding facility was) on Mars, so that may be why they had him there. But Garibaldi did suspect (or had heard) that they would move him to Earth soon, where a rescue would be all but impossible--which sort of supports my point that Earth would be a more secure place to hold their most prized prisoner.

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I always got the sense that the reason he was kept on Mars was because it allowed Clark or the Corp to keep a much tighter lid on things. On earth you could argue there would be a strong possibility the military would want to get involved or elements of the justice system Clark didn't fully control. If that happened the degree of torture/brain washing Clark was using would not have been possible plus Sheridan might get the chance to state his case to others who might be turned to his cause.

The Ivanova scenes are I think interesting in that in light of what happens afterwards there not entirely positive. She doesn't really have a "political" fall the way G'Kar and Londo do due to her dwelling on hate of the enemy but I think it follows Lorien's "its easy to find something worth dying for, do you have anything worth living for?" in how it reflects on the way she treats Marcus who is clearly somewhat alarmed at her.

Nothing much to add, you have already said pretty much everything.

So I repeat: a very, very good episode.

Such a sad episode. Watching Ivanova at the end made my eyes well up (come on, it's the third watching, I should know better... on the other hand, I've seen Boromir die or Gondor's beacons light up half a dozen times and I cry every time soooooo....). Watching that single tear rolling down Ivanova's cheek, Marcus, Delenn...

On the other side of the spectrum of feelings there's me going 'woo-hoo!!!!' at Ivanova's Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander. Daughter of Andre and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is going to kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart! I am death incarnate, and the last living thing that you will ever see. God sent me.
Eeeeexcellent, even though I'm not quite sure I took it the intended way. It was probably supposed to be menacing and serious. Me, I was like you-go-girl!!:thumbsup:

And then there was the scene with Londo, G'Kar & others finally, FINALLY, truly working together. It was so goddamned uplifting I have to confess I had a huge lump in my throat. Londo finally being honorable. G'Kar on the same side and smiling no less! Vir with his "Politics and morality on the same side! That doesn't happen every day, Delenn."

This episode was quite an emotional rollercoaster!

Lyta's sueing-thingy... less talked about the better. Not her finest moment.

Shadow-tech Earth vessels were the stuff of nightmares. In a very weird way even creepier than the original Shadow vessels. Something about the unholy combination of the two... ***brrr***
Whitestars in action are a thing of beauty
(although my favourite vessels are the Minbari ones. They're awesome!)

Talvitar said:

Such a sad episode. Watching Ivanova at the end made my eyes well up (come on, it's the third watching, I should know better... on the other hand, I've seen Boromir die or Gondor's beacons light up half a dozen times and I cry every time soooooo....). Watching that single tear rolling down Ivanova's cheek, Marcus, Delenn...

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I definitely cry every time. Same with Boromir's death scene.... And the Grey Havens. I cry just THINKING about that one, much like Sleeping in Light

Lennier's Tears said:

I definitely cry every time. Same with Boromir's death scene.... And the Grey Havens. I cry just THINKING about that one, much like Sleeping in Light

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I think SLEEPING IN LIGHT will always get me, especially if I watch it at the end of a full re-watch. If I were not currently watching the show and just randomly decided to watch it after not watching any B5 for a few years then it might not hit me so hard.

And the "suing" line might be the worst moment in the whole series. It just did not work.

Looney said:

I think SLEEPING IN LIGHT will always get me, especially if I watch it at the end of a full re-watch. If I were not currently watching the show and just randomly decided to watch it after not watching any B5 for a few years then it might not hit me so hard.

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I dunno, have you tried listening to the soundtrack, without any context or even any of the images? I occasionally give it a listen on Youtube (would purchase if I could, but it's a little hard to get!) and it basically just rips my heart right out every time.