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EpDis: Darkness Ascending
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Elipsis
Regular
Are you serious?
No discussion about this episode in all these years?
Well, I guess I'll start by justifying my B.
Garibaldi still drinking is pretty meh, but the rest of the story really starts to ramp up the tension. I really enjoyed the dialog and conflict between Sheridan and Delenn, it felt very natural and believable for a couple who is both angry with and grateful for the concerns of the other. All in all it was a very emotional episode for Delenn and I feel like her character does that very well. Lennier's discovery was heartbreaking, and the CGI looked very good as a bonus. (The ships broke off into more distinct pieces and explosions were more detailed and natural looking with Season 5 CGI.)
The nervousness in Londo is well done, because we all know whats coming, and the pathway for his tragic circumstances is clearly laid here if it wasn't before.
No discussion about this episode in all these years?
Well, I guess I'll start by justifying my B.
Garibaldi still drinking is pretty meh, but the rest of the story really starts to ramp up the tension. I really enjoyed the dialog and conflict between Sheridan and Delenn, it felt very natural and believable for a couple who is both angry with and grateful for the concerns of the other. All in all it was a very emotional episode for Delenn and I feel like her character does that very well. Lennier's discovery was heartbreaking, and the CGI looked very good as a bonus. (The ships broke off into more distinct pieces and explosions were more detailed and natural looking with Season 5 CGI.)
The nervousness in Londo is well done, because we all know whats coming, and the pathway for his tragic circumstances is clearly laid here if it wasn't before.
Truth_Seeker
Regular
I also gave it a B.
Delenn hugging Londo because she might not have another chance is a great scene.
Delenn hugging Londo because she might not have another chance is a great scene.
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Estelyn
Regular
Garibaldi's dream is indeed interesting, a clear warning, but apparently not clear enough to get him off his drinking habits. I don't recall ever hearing any further information about whether or not Lyta was actually actively involved, or just his imagination.
I can understand Lise's reaction to discovering that Michael is back on alcohol, but I still find her an annoying character.
The disagreement between Delenn and Sheridan is excellently done and even has a humorous moment despite the tension, when he is frustrated over her agreement and can't let out the pent-up anger. Most poignant line goes to her: "He's not dead until I see a body."
What an interesting way to pick up an element from way back at the beginning with Lyta and G'Kar! Her parting shot about her pleasure threshold was amusing...
I can understand Lise's reaction to discovering that Michael is back on alcohol, but I still find her an annoying character.
The disagreement between Delenn and Sheridan is excellently done and even has a humorous moment despite the tension, when he is frustrated over her agreement and can't let out the pent-up anger. Most poignant line goes to her: "He's not dead until I see a body."
What an interesting way to pick up an element from way back at the beginning with Lyta and G'Kar! Her parting shot about her pleasure threshold was amusing...
It was her. I think Joe mentioned that in the script books.
Lennier's Tears
Regular
If that was Lyta, messing around inside Garibaldi's head, why didn't she erase that whole memory, instead of leaving it ambiguous like that?
Unlike Elipsis, I'm actually not crazy about the Delenn/Sheridan argument. That is to say, I like how there IS an argument, because it makes perfect sense, but I don't like how Sheridan talks to her. "Pulling that kind of stunt" ? That isn't how a loving couple communicates, is it? I feel like it doesn't fit with their usual respectful communication style.
Delenn hugging Londo is indeed a great scene.
Lise is all shocked when Garibaldi snaps at that waiter, but honestly that guy was being a total asshole. Who mocks their customer for not wanting alcohol with their dinner?
Unlike Elipsis, I'm actually not crazy about the Delenn/Sheridan argument. That is to say, I like how there IS an argument, because it makes perfect sense, but I don't like how Sheridan talks to her. "Pulling that kind of stunt" ? That isn't how a loving couple communicates, is it? I feel like it doesn't fit with their usual respectful communication style.
Delenn hugging Londo is indeed a great scene.
Lise is all shocked when Garibaldi snaps at that waiter, but honestly that guy was being a total asshole. Who mocks their customer for not wanting alcohol with their dinner?
Lennier's Tears
Regular
I tried to put in a spoiler tag, but it didn't work. Spoilers for To Dream in the City of Sorrows are in italics in the second paragraph, if you want to avoid them.
I forgot to comment on something else: I had completely forgotten* that in this episode, Garibaldi mentions that Catherine Sakai disappeared. I just read To Dream in the City of Sorrows, so it fits with that (except for the timeline). I guess the book predates this episode, so was this script written to fit with that? I'll have to take my comments on the book to the proper thread, but I can say here that I feel sort of ambivalent about that storyline.
Spoilers for To Dream in the City of Sorrows in this paragraph: [spoiler]On the one hand it seems a bit too convenient for Sakai and Sinclair to both end up in the same place, on the other hand, I'm sort of pleased for them that they have a (potential) happy ending. I always felt kinda sad about their time travelling separation.[/spoiler]
A completely unrelated thing I noticed for the first time in this episode*, when Londo and Vir are talking at a little cafe table in the Zocalo, there's some shop merchandise on display behind them. There's a rack of seriously hideous late 20th century sweaters. I'm pretty sure I've never seen any B5 humans wear anything like that at any point during the show. When Londo and Vir are leaving, in the background there's a male Centauri checking out the sweaters, and showing them to a female Centauri. It amused me greatly.
* I haven't watched the fifth season nearly as often as earlier seasons, and so I'm less familiar with these episodes. There's several reasons: I don't always make it to the very end when I'm doing a re-watch, and also, the earlier seasons have just been around longer. I was bingewatching VHS tapes before the fifth season even existed.
I forgot to comment on something else: I had completely forgotten* that in this episode, Garibaldi mentions that Catherine Sakai disappeared. I just read To Dream in the City of Sorrows, so it fits with that (except for the timeline). I guess the book predates this episode, so was this script written to fit with that? I'll have to take my comments on the book to the proper thread, but I can say here that I feel sort of ambivalent about that storyline.
Spoilers for To Dream in the City of Sorrows in this paragraph: [spoiler]On the one hand it seems a bit too convenient for Sakai and Sinclair to both end up in the same place, on the other hand, I'm sort of pleased for them that they have a (potential) happy ending. I always felt kinda sad about their time travelling separation.[/spoiler]
A completely unrelated thing I noticed for the first time in this episode*, when Londo and Vir are talking at a little cafe table in the Zocalo, there's some shop merchandise on display behind them. There's a rack of seriously hideous late 20th century sweaters. I'm pretty sure I've never seen any B5 humans wear anything like that at any point during the show. When Londo and Vir are leaving, in the background there's a male Centauri checking out the sweaters, and showing them to a female Centauri. It amused me greatly.
* I haven't watched the fifth season nearly as often as earlier seasons, and so I'm less familiar with these episodes. There's several reasons: I don't always make it to the very end when I'm doing a re-watch, and also, the earlier seasons have just been around longer. I was bingewatching VHS tapes before the fifth season even existed.
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Talvitar
Member
Well, she *is* an annoying character
Garibald mentions that Sakai disappeared. I have conflicting feelings about this. On the other hand, I *love* how B5 upholds continuity. G'Kar referencing small stuff that happened several years ago. This reference to Sakai's fate (even though for me - not having read any books - it just sounds like she must have died). I always sort of wondered why no one mentioned her after Sinclair left.
On the other hand, Garibaldi's line annoyed me just a bit. If she was important enough to merit a place in the short list of Garibaldi's "all this has happened", why was she never mentioned for years?
Broke my heart to see Delenn hugging Londo
True. However... I can sort of understand how that could happen. First of all, Sheridan is military, and he's the president. So I'm thinking this is an instance where his "work/official persona" infiltrates the "couple persona". It's not like it's always easy to separate the two, if you're working closely with your loved ones.Lennier's Tears said:
And also... would it be within the realms of possibility that Sheridan might be (at least subconsciously) just a tiny bit jealous of Delenn/Lennier relationship? This tiny bit of jealousy might cause him to interpret Delenn's going "behind his back" in the wrong way and to lash out. It might not be "worthy" of Sheridan's generally very upright nature, but like all B5's characters, he is not perfect, he is human, and humans tend to not always act completely rationally. All kinds of murky undercurrents influence us...
Lennier's Tears
Regular
So, I don't at all deal well with anger, and I'm sure that's informing my opinions. Other people's anger, I mean. I absolutely do get angry myself on occasion, but I'm much more likely to just experience on the inside, rather than direct it at any actual people. Which isn't to say I have never in my life raised my voice in anger, because I have, and I don't think that that's necessarily a bad thing ... But yea, I don't deal well when it's directed at me, or even when I'm seeing it directed at someone else.
It isn't so much the anger I'm objecting to here, but the way the anger is expressed. I was going to add some caveat here about how I don't have the clearest memory of this argument, because I am not nearly as familiar with Season 5 episodes as I am with all the other episodes, but what do you know, I already said that right here in the thread! (Turns out that in my late thirties, I'm basically just constantly repeating myself). The language "pulling a stunt like that" doesn't seem like it's coming from a partner, directed at another partner, in a relationship of equals. It sounds like something a parent would say to a child, or maybe an educator to a student. I feel like Sheridan can only speak to Delenn in that way BECAUSE they are in a romantic relationship. As political allies, he doesn't really have the authority to talk to her like that. I mean, sure, he is the President of the Interstellar Alliance. But she is older, wiser, and more experienced. (I don't actually know how old Delenn is, but I am reasonably sure she is a good bit older than him ... If you can compare human and Minbari ages). It makes me extremely uncomfortable, though I'll admit I absolutely have a hair trigger for that sort of stuff so I don't necessarily expect anyone else to see what I see.
I said in the other thread that it also made me extremely uncomfortable to see Delenn lie to Sheridan and go behind his back, so I'm uncomfortable with both of them here, and I feel like that whole storyline is just there to further the Lennier-going-through-puberty-or-whatever-the-hell-that-is story so I kinda just wish it wasn't there
It isn't so much the anger I'm objecting to here, but the way the anger is expressed. I was going to add some caveat here about how I don't have the clearest memory of this argument, because I am not nearly as familiar with Season 5 episodes as I am with all the other episodes, but what do you know, I already said that right here in the thread! (Turns out that in my late thirties, I'm basically just constantly repeating myself
). The language "pulling a stunt like that" doesn't seem like it's coming from a partner, directed at another partner, in a relationship of equals. It sounds like something a parent would say to a child, or maybe an educator to a student. I feel like Sheridan can only speak to Delenn in that way BECAUSE they are in a romantic relationship. As political allies, he doesn't really have the authority to talk to her like that. I mean, sure, he is the President of the Interstellar Alliance. But she is older, wiser, and more experienced. (I don't actually know how old Delenn is, but I am reasonably sure she is a good bit older than him ... If you can compare human and Minbari ages). It makes me extremely uncomfortable, though I'll admit I absolutely have a hair trigger for that sort of stuff so I don't necessarily expect anyone else to see what I see.I said in the other thread that it also made me extremely uncomfortable to see Delenn lie to Sheridan and go behind his back, so I'm uncomfortable with both of them here, and I feel like that whole storyline is just there to further the Lennier-going-through-puberty-or-whatever-the-hell-that-is story so I kinda just wish it wasn't there
