Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

[vacantlook]

Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

I just read the above linked to article and couldn't help but to think about Babylon 5, specifically with regards to the following parts.

So maybe the thinking-beings club is home to really, really old societies, and we’re like preschoolers surrounded by grad students.

and

And while the Galaxy may have spawned great civilizations in the deep and distant past, they are mostly gone now.

 

[GeoKuutio]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

I don't know about that. Since billions of years have passed since the "beginning" and there are billions of stars in our galaxy, I personally believe that at least 10 of those stars contain planet that is somehow similar to earth itself. And therefore it contains... well... at least some kind of intelligent life. But the statement/question that we are the youngest sounds to "bleh" for me.

And happy birthday vacantlook.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: Are We the Galaxy\'s Youngest Residents?

And happy birthday vacantlook.

Thank you.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: Are We the Galaxy\'s Youngest Residents?

Since we are just beginning space flight, it would seem that it would be hard for any ET sentients to be much younger races than us, unless they progressed far faster than we have.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: Are We the Galaxy\'s Youngest Residents?

Personally, if there are other Earthlike planets out there, point to the mass extinctions in Earth's past. If we hadn't been hit by a dinosaur killer asteroid 65 million years ago, what might have evolved?

Other alien races could be immensely older, or even extinct by now.

I wonder what any such hypothetical races will think of us once they start picking up B5 broadcasts?

 

[sleepy_shadow]

Re: Are We the Galaxy\'s Youngest Residents?

I wonder what any such hypothetical races will think of us once they start picking up B5 broadcasts?

Blow bubbles through their gills? Revolve in air, slowly repeating "bala bala balala lala"? Nod in understanding fashion and smile?

Who knows. But I believe the impression below the expression... will be some form of amusement.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

Well, when you think about it...

Our medium sized star has 10 planets around it.

Our galaxy has billions of these stars.

Our universe has billions of these galaxies.

With those odds, the idea that there are other planets out there that are capable of sustaining life seems very likely.

However, when we think about whether or not we're the youngest, you also have to consider the alternative. We could very well be that newest life-sustaining planet out there, but could just as easily be the first life-sustaining planet out there. Perhaps we are the start of what will one day, billions of years from now, be a galaxy full of intelligent life. It has to start somewhere.

Chances are that we're somewhere in the middle.

In B5 terms, the Centauri seemed old to the humans. The Minbari seemed realllyy old to the Cetnauri. The Shadows/Vorlons were billions of years older than the Minbari. And even the Shadows/Vorlons were young in comparison to some others.

Chances are that there's someone older than us, and either someone younger, or someone younger coming.

 

[MeadDrinker]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

There'll always be someone older, and someone younger, due to the sheer number of possibilities out there. There are so many stars, galaxies and worlds that there must be life of innumerable different kinds.

However, until we find a way to have meaningful communication with them they won't be 'real' to us. Existence is just so BIG. I can't remember the words, but the start of the Hitchhikers Guide comes to mind - 'Space is big. Impossibly Big. etc...'

 

[Lyra]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

Yes we are... One of quite a few... I feel a bit odd answering it.. I cannot really say anything to support it.. But that it is my gut feeling that we are young, but from an older race, long gone... We are the children who were left alone... No one watches over us anymore... That is why we cannot find our place... Anywhere...

We dream such wonderful dreams, and live such terrible lives... Time for change... Time to look back who we once before we were left alone...

Question is if we at all can see so far back... And even if we can... Would we ever understand how we thought back then? How we felt? I doubt it... After all, we cannot even understand each other these days...

People from the 1970ies seem like aliens to kids these days... Imagine how people would be thought of, who were 8000 years in the past...

Anyway... It was just a thought... Like so many others before me...

 

[sleepy_shadow]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

I personally suspect the opposite -- namely that Earth has not been discovered (or has been discovered and ignored).

If we look back... into the history of Earth biosphere, or alternatively into human history... it suggests to me that nobody has interfered. Nothing has come easily. Almost every step in development... has been a bitter compromise, to achieve an imperfect, but slightly better solution.

I likewise feel that when looking back... we can relate quite far. In some desires, a human can relate to a plant or fruit fly... but with fellow humans from 8000 years back, our emotions and senses nearly overlap.

I am confident they likewise felt trust, distrust, love, hate, curiosity and fear. They spoke, and their mind permitted reasoning -- only society hadn't developed a critical mass of knowledge. When life permitted, they liked to play and explore.

I trust a fair bit of those people... if provided my environment, would exceed my ability. Perhaps I am slightly more suited to life among technology... but only slightly. Perhaps I can easier enjoy games with abstract information... but only slightly.

I suspect that if a person from 8000 years ago... grew up in these days, you might not tell them apart from me.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

To be honest...

We really don't know how people were 8000 or 12.000 years ago. I am how ever sure that we would have a hard time understanding them and yes, they would have love, trust etc. But not quite how we know it today. We have cultures we cannot understand.. This would be the same.

And who is to say that those 8000 or more years ago were not more intelligent then us? Why can it not be that they were the peak of humanity and we are the end of humanity? Are we blinded by our technological evolution? Are we so arrogant to think just cause I can use a computer I know how to make one my self?

All I am saying is that, I am sure, that their kind of intelligence were different that ours. And in some ways better. Because they have lived in peace longer than we ever have in modern times... Look at the dynasties, the empires... We were way ahead back then, and today we seem more ignorant. And I not saying they didn't have ignorant people back then, but with our education around the world and mass information we still hate, kill and hurt people more now than ever... We simply didn't get better, we just got different...

But hey, it is just my opinion... Yours is as accurate as mine, and mine is as false as yours...

PS :
After all... it is not like we know first hand... Regardless of being an anthropologist... We'll never know for certain... Our anthropomorphic views cloud our judgment from time to time...

 

[sleepy_shadow]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

Neither do I know for sure.

I only know... that in approximate terms of generations, humans of 8000 years ago... relate to us like fruit flies of 10 years ago relate to current fruit flies.

Because the biological form of a species doesn't easily change that fast (admittedly: under great pressure it does, and the record of a species branching off among insects ought to be somewhere around 20 years)...

...I would consider us, and people of that time... remarkably similar in potential. However, you are correct to mention they were incredibly more limited in opportunity. They didn't have a massive array of pre-collected information and pre-developed technology to start with.

 

[hypatia]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

Some of the most successful species on the planet have changed very little over the many centuries. But I tend towards the 'intelligent species outside of our planet probably exist but we'll never know it' opinion.

Too much space, too little reason to believe that any species would necessarily even try to communincate with "the outside". Or, if they did, we would even recognize it.

 

[sleepy_shadow]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

And who is to say that those 8000 or more years ago were not more intelligent then us?

I hold the opinion... of them having been approximately equally intelligent. Just a massive bit less informed than we can become.

There might be a *slight* difference (our environment might reward abilities of mind more than theirs)... but biological factors suggest: little change has occurred in people.

Society and technology have changed instead of people.

But not quite how we know it today. We have cultures we cannot understand.. This would be the same.

This I tend to agree with. Society is capable of changing *much* faster than biology... and during the period you mention... it must have changed quite notably.

Are we blinded by our technological evolution? Are we so arrogant to think just cause I can use a computer I know how to make one my self?

While I suspect not everyone fully acknowledges the impact of technical evolution... I think we take its power... nearly seriously enough.

And it is... a notable power. One which *should* draw our attention before biological evolution. Should the barrier to creating artificial intellect some day be passed... technical evolution can be suspected to support paces which may sweep biological evolution away together with it.

 

[Lyra]

Re: Are We the Galaxy’s Youngest Residents?

sleepy_shadow, thanks for the talk... It has been stimulating to see this topic picking up a more mature discussion...

I like your arguments...

Have a great weekend!