Comic book basis of Vorlon / Shadow conflict

[GKarsEye]

Hey look at me, starting a thread in this forum...

Yesterday I was having this conversation about the show Lost and I was comparing the Jacob / vs his enemy conflict as looking like Vorlons vs Shadow and was ranting about how Lost = Babylon 5 (but not as good, natch) and then had to point out that B5 didn't come up with the idea of two big powers in ideological conflict using everyone else as pawns (Cold War, etc), and remember reading once that there was some comic book (or novel? but I'm pretty sure it was a comic book series) that had the same thing and JMS said it was the most direct and obvious influence to B5's thing.

What was that comic book or novel?

 

[KoshFan]

All I'm coming up with is Babylonian mythology, Marduk (order) vs. Tiamat (chaos). Sorry.

 

[Ranger1]

i don't know, but i was having a similar conversation at the weekend, and someone actually said babylon 5 sucks because it's trying to be too serious. really? he then said new BSG was cool because it was serious and DS9 rocked because it didn't take itslef too seriously, sadly i was locked in a house tanked up on booze (not a big drinker anymore but i went through a case there or thereabouts on saturday) with a bunch of B5 haters.

 

[Raw Shark]

I don't remember seeing anything about a comic series that was a big influence on B5, but I do remember JMS writing about how he's been influenced in general by epic sci fi novels like Lensman and the Foundation Trilogy.

But there is an excellent comic series from the 80's and early 90's called Dreadstar, about a group of rebels trying to stop a 200 year-old galactic war between two superpowers. It has tons of similarities with B5, including a scene where the hero orders some ancient and powerful beings to leave the galaxy. Dreadstar and B5 are my two sci fi favorites, as are their writers.

Raw Shark

"We are merely passing through history. This... this is improved history."

'Steven Speilberg', South Park

 

[GKarsEye]

I don't remember seeing anything about a comic series that was a big influence on B5, but I do remember JMS writing about how he's been influenced in general by epic sci fi novels like Lensman and the Foundation Trilogy.

But there is an excellent comic series from the 80's and early 90's called Dreadstar, about a group of rebels trying to stop a 200 year-old galactic war between two superpowers. It has tons of similarities with B5, including a scene where the hero orders some ancient and powerful beings to leave the galaxy. Dreadstar and B5 are my two sci fi favorites, as are their writers.

Raw Shark

"We are merely passing through history. This... this is improved history."

'Steven Speilberg', South Park

I think you're right- Dreadstar, that must have been it. Thanks!

 

[Raw Shark]

You're welcome. Did JMS really say something about Dreadstar being an influence? I know he's mentioned his love for DC comics, and that he wrote a script for a Grimjack movie, another killer comic. Not sure what other comics he's discussed.

Another big similarity with Dreadstar is the tendency of governments to do whatever they think is in their interest, namely making war, while innocent beings get crushed underfoot and exterminated by the billions. That was the first comic I ever read, when I was ten. I've tried to find other sci fi comics that are as good, but never had any luck. Sci fi, mind you. Grimjack I always thought of as really dark fantasy.

Raw Shark

"Alright people, we've got a blind date with Destiny. And it looks like she's ordered the lobster."
The Shoveler, Mystery Men

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Dreadstar was done by Jim Starlin. I'm a big fan of his, and Dreadstar. There are some similarities to B5, but I'd say they are slight.

 

[GKarsEye]

You're welcome. Did JMS really say something about Dreadstar being an influence? I know he's mentioned his love for DC comics, and that he wrote a script for a Grimjack movie, another killer comic. Not sure what other comics he's discussed.

Another big similarity with Dreadstar is the tendency of governments to do whatever they think is in their interest, namely making war, while innocent beings get crushed underfoot and exterminated by the billions. That was the first comic I ever read, when I was ten. I've tried to find other sci fi comics that are as good, but never had any luck. Sci fi, mind you. Grimjack I always thought of as really dark fantasy.

Raw Shark

"Alright people, we've got a blind date with Destiny. And it looks like she's ordered the lobster."
The Shoveler, Mystery Men

Re: JMS citing Dreadstar, that is the way I remember it at least. Certainly I could be wrong so I guess you shouldn't take my word for it because I can't point to it on record. It's possible I read that but it wasn't true, or that I misremembered it (like maybe someone thought it seemed like a natural influence and said something like 'JMS was influenced by Dreadstar' and I then I didn't remember it right). Who knows.

Either way I knew there was at least comic like that and my inner-geek just need to know that so that I could come off as a big smart-ass to all my fellow Lost-viewers.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

I can't help you with the comics, but (A) the Shadows/Vorlon similarites to Jacob/Evil Locke are something we've commented on a lot over at Republibot, and also (B) we've commented on the fairly obvious similarities to Zoroastrian theology, with Ahura Mazda vs. Angra Manu

 

[Ranger1]

I can't help you with the comics, but (A) the Shadows/Vorlon similarites to Jacob/Evil Locke are something we've commented on a lot over at Republibot, and also (B) we've commented on the fairly obvious similarities to Zoroastrian theology, with Ahura Mazda vs. Angra Manu

that sounds interesting, because the station was supposed to be a futuristic city of babylon.

 

[KoshFan]

The Zoroastrian parallels, at least, were purely intentional. Zagros 7, in the S3 opener? Well, the Zagros Mountains are just outside Babylon...

 

[Raw Shark]

I've thought of lots of similarities, some thematic, some more direct. But I definitely regard each as being their own distinct creation, each groundbreaking in its own way. They're both such imaginative works.

I'm a big Starlin fan too. I heard a podcast interview in which he said he's working to complete his 'Breed series right now. I haven't found any news on this anywhere else, but I can't wait. That's one series that really needs an ending.

I forgot to mention that Peter David wrote the last 24 issues of Dreadstar. For B5 and Crusade he also wrote the episodes 'Soul Mates,' 'There All the Honor Lies' and 'Ruling From the Tomb,' plus the Legions of Fire Trilogy.

Raw Shark

"Life is water, not stone."
Marc Antony, Rome