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Crusade/Proper order?

  • Thread starter **DONOTDELETE**
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**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
Whenever scifi airs Crusade they advertise that they are airing the shows "in the order they were meant to be seen." I never saw the show when it orginally aired on TNT, so scifi has been the first time I've ever seen the series. The order that scifi shows the series does not make since to me. For example, in one episode Gideon knows Lockey but in the next episode he meets her for the first time? Can anyone shed some light on this for me?


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I have often been confused by this as well. I remember this being discussed some time ago, so here's the thread:

Crusade Airing Order

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"I welcome you and present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen, and we have much work ahead of us."
-Valen, War Without End Pt.2
 
I have often been confused by this as well. I remember this being discussed some time ago, so here's the thread:

Crusade Airing Order

Hope this helps you some.

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"I welcome you and present this place to you as a gift. I am called Valen, and we have much work ahead of us."
-Valen, War Without End Pt.2
 
Thanks for your help, that did shed some light on the way the series has been shown. However, there should still be an order in which the shows should be aired. Contradictions too big can not be ignored, even by the casual viewer. I'm sure this had a large part in the reason the series did't make it.

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no no no no no no no no no no NO NO NO

It didn't make it because TNT decided before any shows aired that they wanted to force JMS to do the show they way they wanted it done and suggestioned him to death. Some belive it was because they decided they did not want the show after all and decided to make JMS quit.

If JMS had been allowed to make more of the show there would have been a proper order. Remember all B5 shows are filmed out of order so shows that would have been in between the ones we have were not filmed. There are two opening eps because TNT decided that we were too stupid to understand anything unless every minute detail was explained so they asked for a Warzone like show to be made, which was Warzone the worst ep and JMS' biggest capitulation. They also made stupid decisions like not allowing the old uniforms to be used for eps that would have been set before the crew got new ones(sad but true).

Ratings had nothing to do with the show being killed before it ever had a chance.

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny
 
I do realize that shows, or scenes are shot out of order, which in some instances would create some inconsistencies, however there should still be a story board of some kind. How else could different pieces be put together properly?

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CartagiaII:
I do realize that shows, or scenes are shot out of order, which in some instances would create some inconsistencies, however there should still be a story board of some kind. How else could different pieces be put together properly?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that's an excellent point. And since TNT had made a 22 episode commitment, that's how the plan was made. 22 eps, shot in cost effective and efficient production order, to be aired with the appropriate story sequence.

Then, before the show aired even ONE episode, TNT killed production. Suddenly, instead of 22 eps, there were only 13 that had completed main filming, though not post production.

The sequence Sci Fi airs them in is JMS preference not because it's the sequence he'd originally planned, but because it's the best he could devise given the actually finished episodes.

There's a whole lot of backstory to the Crusade situation. If you're interested, I can post a couple of links I think you will find very informative on the subject.

Let me know,

Ro



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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
 
Yeah, if you wouldn't mind posting those links I'd love to look at them.
Thanks
Car

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Technomage Roanna:
Well, that's an excellent point. And since TNT had made a 22 episode commitment, that's how the plan was made. 22 eps, shot in cost effective and efficient production order, to be aired with the appropriate story sequence.

Then, before the show aired even ONE episode, TNT killed production. Suddenly, instead of 22 eps, there were only 13 that had completed main filming, though not post production.

The sequence Sci Fi airs them in is JMS preference not because it's the sequence he'd originally planned, but because it's the best he could devise given the actually finished episodes.

There's a whole lot of backstory to the Crusade situation. If you're interested, I can post a couple of links I think you will find very informative on the subject.

Let me know,

Ro
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very well said! Do you have the JMS Tells A Story one? (the one that mentions King Ted and Lady Jane)?


Personally I like the following from JMS News, commenting on how Babylonian and TNT were getting along:

"JMS News 05/27/1999
{original post had no questions}
"The marriage was going great until the wacky inlaws showed up with Cousin It from Atlanta....

jms"


For another good one, search http://www.jmsnews.com
for
"ATTN JMS: *sigh* a quick Question"
dated 10/27/1999 01:10 AM

This is much of the reason for Blackstar's fanfic about T'N'T'ha'dum'a and TNTnites, and some of the feelings vented on the following thread (mainly by Sol & me): http://www.b5lr.com/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000829.html


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel. http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 03, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 03, 2001).]
 
There is a terrific "Crusade saga" information thread at the equally terrific ISN News Forum. If you like B5LR you should definitely check out both ISN's various fora and their news page. (Sandy Bruckner, one of the leading lights at ISN was president of the official B5 fan club when there still was an official club.) Anyway, here's the URL: Crusade Saga at ISN

The "Crusade for Crusade" site also has good background information on the show order and the general dog's breakfast that TNT Atlanta made of the production schedule. One of the items is from a letter I wrote to someone which was later posted (anonymously) on the newsgroup. It was based on evidence I'd pieced together and deduction, so it isn't correct in all the details, but JMS publicly confirmed that the over all description of the situation was correct. (This was before he himself went public with some of the details, but he felt comfortable confirming information that somebody else had put out there.
wink.gif
)

You can find the site at: The Crusade for "Crusade"

Suffice it to say that there is no perfect order, given the lines looped and other changes added to make the TNT order at least partly coherent, despite the violence that it did to character development and other things. JMS's order is his idea of how best to watch the series given that any order is going to have continuity glitches (like the Lochley relationship and the uniforms.) Your mileage may vary.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net
 
There was also a rather extensive interview with jms about this (originating in Dreamwatch IIRC) which floated around online in April/May 1999.

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"The world is a cold, heartless place... It's hurt you and it's hurt me.
But no more! For now I have the power DiTillio - The power to end the world!" (hear it)
-- Jeremy, "Ragnarok and Roll", The Real Ghostbusters

drakh@spamcop.net

[This message has been edited by drakh (edited December 03, 2001).]
 
Here you go KoshN, I keep it in a text file so I can just copy and paste whenever someone asks:

Q: "I'd like to know how many episodes are sold and what plans you
have..."
JMS: "For?"
Q: "Crusade."
JMS: "Thank you. It's a very long story. There's stuff I can
say, and there's stuff that I can't say. So, I'll tell you what I can
say and lie about what I can't say. "We shot 13 episodes. And TNT will
be airing those on June 9 at 10:00, starting then and going straight
through, more or less.
And we had... they had said they weren't going to do more beyond
that, beyond the 13. We tried at that point to take it to the SciFi
Channel, but it was so late in the game.... It takes a lot of money to
be able to support an entire season of a show. The SciFi Channel had
already allocated their funds for the year, so they couldn't pick it up.
If the show does well, the first 13, then it will be considered
for a season, beginning with the second season, on the SciFi Channel. If
the show does well, it will go on. "As for more what happened...
Let me tell you a fairy tale. And every fairy tale begins with
Once Upon A Time...
"...There was a writer of songs in a kingdom. And he wasn't the
best writer of songs on the entire planet. There were others who were as
good or better. And he had written 110 really good songs... and four or
five long odes.
And they said, 'Do some more songs for us.'
And he said, 'Sure.'
And he began writing more songs. And those were for this little
kingdom which was great. As were the ministers, who had always before
worked with him.
"Then the King heard about the new songs that were being
commissioned. Not the Emperor. Not the Emperor Theodore and his wife
Lady Jane. I ain't talking about them. I'm talking about the lower king
of a particular land, all right. I don't want the Emperor getting pissed
at me.
And he (the King) said, 'Well, I should be involved creatively.'
"And thus there came... runners would come with scrolls, which the
singer/songwriter would look at and burn.
"Now this is just a fairy tale. Okay? This is nothing but a
fairy tale. This is not about Crusade. Okay? I'm just telling you a
story here.
"And the King became wroth. He waxed Wroth, and Wroth wasn't
very happy about it. Old joke, I'm sorry.
"So they called for a grand meeting at which, along one long
table were ministers, and emissaries, and ambassadors, and functionaries
and assistants, and programming-uh,...a whole lot of guys. Now on the
other side of the table was the writer of songs. And they had plenty of
these huge scrolls in front of them. And they began to open the first
one.
"And the writer of songs said, 'no.'
"And they brought someone in with a book to explain to them what
the word 'no meant, because they had never heard it before. And they
said, 'no to what?'
"I said... The writer of songs said, in this imaginary story,
'no to all of it. No to all of it in all its parts and pieces, from page
1 to page 20. No to all of it.' The writer of songs felt that what they
wanted was, in modern terms, for a moment, sort of Baywatch meets
wrestling in space. Which was not applicable, exactly, to our fairy tale
scenario. (aside: If I every work again, it'll be a miracle)
"It became clear that if the King's emissaries were not properly
responded to, that they may say, 'you can only write 13 songs.' And the
writer of songs said, 'better 13 songs that I can believe in than 22
that I do not.
"So there were 13 songs, and the writer of songs has moved to a
different kingdom knowing that the 13 songs were songs that he wanted to
hear. And in the 13th song there was a sub-thread in the song about
people who come in with suggestions, which is rather similar to the
King's situation. Astonishingly, the King saw the 13th song and didn't
realize what it was.
"And the writer of songs moved to another kingdom and lived
happily ever after.
"And this has nothing to do with Crusade or your question, but I
thought I'd tell you that story because it amuses me."

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"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny
 
Many thanks to Joe D and Dr Gonzo.

That's what I would've said...
wink.gif


Ro

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A ship in a port is safe, but that's not what ships are for.

Rear Admiral Grace Murray Hopper
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doctor Gonzo:
Here you go KoshN, I keep it in a text file so I can just copy and paste whenever someone asks:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you, Doctor Gonzo!
laugh.gif


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KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 

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