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Did Babylon 5 force television to get better?

G

Garovorkin

Regular
I believe that it did, it forced executives, producers and writers to re evaluate the old tried and true episodic model of television. It proved that audiences would watch shows with complex continuing story arcs, with characters that develop and not stay the same. It forced Trek to write better stories, in fact it was the first serious science fiction show to give trek any kind of significant competition and a lot of Hardcore trekies resented its success. Because of B5 we got shows like Lost, BSG Heroes, DS9 and others. Television got better because B5 raised the stakes. Opinions? :cool:
 
Well, since I don't think television is any better, I'll have to pass on that part. But, even though it was not the first to use a story arc, I do think B5 paved the way, so that more TV shows are allowed to use one today.
 
Being ab great show, I think it did. But, it is no different than any other great show in that regard. All great shows raise the bar for the shows that come after them and they change the way that TV is viewed and how it is written, produced and presented. Babylon 5 did this, as well as shows like X-Files, Twin Peaks, Carnivale, Deadwood, Rome, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Seinfeld, Veronica Mars, The Office (UK Version and US Version), Angel, Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the list goes on and on.
 
Hey! lets see more opinions this great topic come on all of you viewing can do better! this is potentially a really great topic 49 views and no one else wants to venture an Opinion on this one???!!!! does any one else want to take a stab at this ? Only 2 comments ? for cryin out loud !!
 
Look, this one could be one for record s lots to fight about on this lots argue and debate lets make this one a real Donnybrooke, Showdown at the Ok Coral. lets have some fun with this topic. This topic could be Epic in scope and in scale.
 
1) Screaming that your topic is great doesn't make for an epic thread.

2) I don't think B5 changed TV much because it was too fringy. It may have encouraged others in the genre -- in fact I've seen not a few SF-based computer games that looked like they were ripped straight from the B5 universe -- but it didn't change TV as a whole too much. Arcs? They were still considered unworkable until 24.
 
And Twin Peaks did it years before B5 did.

I have to agree with JMS on this one ... the main thing that B5 achieved was to show network execs that it was possible for a SF show other than Star Trek to be successful. Clearly, the arc thing was important, but not unique and had been done before in other genres, albeit not so rigidly. That said, I don't think any of the subsequent arc based shows have been as rigid as B5 in that regard either.

Even 24 (which isn't SF). It could be said that it has to be rigidly plotted, in that they have 24 episodes to tell each story, but given that they hadn't even decided that Nina was going to be the bad guy halfway through season 1, they aren't that rigid.

Perhaps B5's most important contribution was proving that it was possible to deliver space-based SF on budget which, it appears, was almost unheard of in the mid-90s.
 
Koshfan again point taken, got a little overzealous on this one. At the very least B5 did push things in this direction. and Garibaldishair yes ,Twin peaks did attempt the same feat a few years earlier a fact which I had forgotten about of course.
 
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Like KoshFan said, B5 was too marginal a show to fundamentally change things for television as a whole. However, I do think that it influenced the genre quite a lot. BSG is making an attempt in that direction, even though the writers make things up as they go along a lot more than JMS did. Lost is one show that possibly might not have been sold if not for B5. As far as I know Lindelof already has the finale written out for Lost.
 
Maneth Im not so sure its impact was so marginal, it did cause rethinking about what television could be and should be. It just seems that television became something different when B5 burst on the scene. So much has changed on television since.
 
I agree that B5 was too marginal to effect great change on television, but I think it forced DS9 into a real story arc. That was probably the greatest effect of the series. That...and the DVD sales got us some new stories.
 
Garovorkin said:
Maneth Im not so sure its impact was so marginal, it did cause rethinking about what television could be and should be. It just seems that television became something different when B5 burst on the scene. So much has changed on television since.
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I stubbed my toe on September 11, and so much has changed in the world since. Clearly, my toe made the world worse...
 
Television programming like anything else develops and evolves. Sometimes de-evolves but that’s another thread.

B5 WAS ground breaking in a number of areas. The thing is though, all those ground breaking achievements were waiting to be . . . . . . . . . .eh broke. The show, and the people where in the right place at the right time with the right attitudes to be the first to use CGI, develop a variety of technical innovation that took place behind the scenes which became the standard in the industry – for a while – as well as have another pop at pushing a story arc spread over a number of episodes.

Did it force television to get better. No.

Did it create good television. Yes.
 
Okay Koshfan obviously you and others don't agree, fine. Obviously I over estimated B5, maybe television would have ended up the way it is today who knows. Time to move on to the next topic I guess. No hard feeelings
 
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KoshFan said:
I stubbed my toe on September 11, and so much has changed in the world since. Clearly, my toe made the world worse...
Click to expand...

I think you need to make the distinction between TV execs and TV creators. For TV execs B5 wasn't a force at all, and neither were shows like Veronica Mars, Firefly, Brimstone, etc.. For the TV exec all that matters are sales figures/ratings. However I would hope that sales figures/ratings really don't matter to anyone here, because truly sales figures/ratings are the worst indicator of how good a show is or the impact it has had on people. B5, and other shows, had a tremendous impact on fellow creators and on fans who then decided to become creators, writers, directors, and more. In that way, yes, it was a force that changed TV, and that distinction needs to be made.
 
Garovorkin said:
Okay Koshfan obviously you and others don't agree, fine. Obviously I over estimated B5, maybe television would have ended up the way it is today who knows. Time to move on to the next topic I guess. No hard feeelings
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Who is to say that anyone is "right" in this case. It is a discussion that may not be over yet. Don't throw in the towel too quickly.... ;)
 
Markas I was being sarcastic , and was not in a good frame of mind when it typed that posting. No I believe that B5 did have an impact on television in many ways great and small. No I have not given up yet I started this thread ill see it through.
 
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The question to ask is that if B5 had not happened at all would television be what it is today? Without the lessons learned from Babylon five's success would we have shows like Lost or BSG. Would Star trek DS9 have become the great the that it did, or would it have even happened at all? I sincerely doubt that any of these shows would now exist if B5 has never happened. Honestly television for the most part is mediocre, but among the crap there are plenty of good shows which we might have fewer of if it were not for Babylon 5's successful run.:cool:
 
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