Kosh & Vorlon Society -- SPOILERS!

[Mondo Londo]

I'm not sure if we've ever discussed Kosh and his position (if any) in Vorlon government and / or society. If we have, in the immortal words of Maxwell Smart: "sorry about that, Chief!"

I'm sure this topic will require lots of spoilers. Those not wishing to be spoiled, please turn back now.

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Mondo Londo]

In B5, we see two Vorlons who answer to the name "Kosh." Indeed, Kosh #2 says "we are all Kosh." To what degree is this true, and what does it mean? How many Vorlons are there, anyway? Aside from knowing their race is among "the First Ones," and they stand opposed to the Shadows -- what do we know about them? From B5, pretty much all we can see is there's a change in Vorlon policy as we go from Kosh 1.0 to Kosh 2.0.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
From the Techno-Mage novels, we get an image of Kosh as not being the average Vorlon. He(?) believes in getting involved with the younger races, while the other Vorlons prefer to stand aloof.

From other sources, I think we know Kosh was one of two Vorlons that Sinclair/Valen contacted, when Sinclair/Valen emerged from the time rift and entered the year 1260 A.D. Was this just happenstance, or was Kosh selected? Was Kosh already predisposed to commune with the younger races, or was this the moment he broke ranks with the rest of Vorlon thought?

Then, together with the two Vorlons, Sinclair/Valen presents Babylon 4 to the Minbari, during that current Shadow war. By re-viewing the pilot (knowing what we do now), it's clear that Kosh recognizes Sinclair as Valen. </font></td></tr></table>

BTW, Delenn says the last "great" Shadow war was 10,000 years ago. What made that one so "great?" How long do these Vorlons live anyway? Again, how many of them are there? Do they get married and have baby Vorlons?

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>We know, that at least since Valen, Kosh spends more time studying and interacting with younger races than does the average Vorlon. Does this make him some kind of long-hair, hippie Vorlon or a respected "Jane Goodall" kiind of Vorlon that other Vorlons read about in their version of National Geographic?

Ultimately, how much weight does Kosh carry in the Vorlon community, and does he have other responsibilities besides watching the younger races?

Is Kosh the Vorlon that creates human telepaths? What about the telepaths of other races? What kind of discussion took place among the Vorlons when deciding to tamper with the genetic codes of younger races?
</font></td></tr></table>

In 2257, Kosh comes to B5 to represent the Vorlons. Is this a post of honor, as it is for Kosh and Delenn? Or is it a backhanded insult to him, as it is for Londo?

Regardless, Sheridan eventually convinces Kosh to directly attack the Shadows. This is a violation of the ancient (how ancient?) agreement between the two "First" races. This attack apparently involves other Vorlons, or at the very least, other Vorlon ships. Thus, Kosh must have some influence with other Vorlons.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
For violating the ancient code, the Shadows kill Kosh. He (and the rest of the Vorlons) seem to accept this death as the cost for the attack against the Shadows. Unknown to anyone, Kosh manages to hide a bit of himself in Sheridan while he is being killed. Except to the B5 command staff, Kosh's death is kept a secret.
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With Kosh dead, B5 receives a new Vorlon, who asks to be called Kosh -- as if Kosh 1.0 didn't die. I think his real name is something like "Ulkesh."

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
Is Ulkesh the second Vorlon Valen met, along with Kosh? </font></td></tr></table>



Pretty soon, it's apparent Kosh 2.0 is quite different from Kosh 1.0 -- Kosh 2.0 is much less nice; and does not attend any Alliance meetings, nor does he interact with the other governments. Moreover, after Sheridan attacks Za'ha'dum, the Vorlons openly attack planets "tainted" by the Shadows (though not the Shadows themselves). In no way are these Vorlon attacks coordinated with, or designed to help, the Alliance.

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>
Why this change in Vorlon policy? Is it in revenge for Kosh's death? Or, does it in some way reflect a removal of restraint that Kosh exerted? Or, are they just taking advantage of the Shadows being weakened by Sheridan?</font></td></tr></table>

I guess that's enough for now.




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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[Jomar]

I think Mondo Londo has covered most of the points that come out in the series.



<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black> I had the impression that Vorlons lived practically forever, like a million years. Lorien speaks of his children having been at odds that long, and he also speaks of Kosh as "it". I don't think they marry and have children, just probably break off a piece of themselves when necessary.

Also Kosh seemed to know of the part Sheridan would play in the coming war with the Shadows and from the first he started appearing at Council sessions, although he had not done so during Sinclair's time. </font></td></tr></table>



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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[whitestar90]

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>I think they all have equal say in whats happens.Perhaps each vorlon has a number of ships at his/hers disposal.In the technomage novels it was brought out that many vorlons thought that the technomages should be destroyed while others weren't open to that sugestion.It appears also that if an order or thought contradicts order and obedience principles then the vorlons won't violate it... </font></td></tr></table>



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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Ultimately, how much weight does Kosh carry in the Vorlon community, and does he have other responsibilities besides watching the younger races?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that I remembered something, I can no longer recall where it came from! You see, I remember Kosh saying:

"I am Naranek. They will listen and obey."

No longer remembering the source or context, I can only suspect that Naranek means an ambassador. After all, Kosh and Ulkesh were both Naranek.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Is Kosh the Vorlon that creates human telepaths? What about the telepaths of other races? What kind of discussion took place among the Vorlons when deciding to tamper with the genetic codes of younger races?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not the faintest idea. But I recall seeing somewhere that two Vorlons were involved in the creation of Human telepaths. One may have died in the process (which makes me suspect that some Shadows were quite sleepless already at that time).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Kosh seemed to know of the part Sheridan would play in the coming war with the Shadows and from the first he started appearing at Council sessions, although he had not done so during Sinclair's time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a diametrically opposite possibility. Perhaps Kosh avoided council meetings because it knew Sinclair? Now that I think of it, Kosh avoided pretty much all contact with Sinclair.

Valen may have told Kosh "as much as it needs to know" about the times to come. These recommendations may have included minimum contact with Sinclair, to ensure that the past stays unchanged.

[This message has been edited by Lennier (edited December 23, 2001).]

 

[bakana]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Now that I think of it, Kosh avoided pretty much all contact with Sinclair. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not exactly. Kosh made sure to say just the things Sinclair needed to hear at the times Sinclair needed to hear them:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>"We take no interest in the affairs of others."
Ambassador Kosh to Sinclair in Babylon 5:"The War Prayer"

"You are not ready for immortality."
Kosh to Sinclair in Babylon 5:"Deathwalker"

"And so it begins...
You have forgotten something."
Kosh to Sinclair in Babylon 5:"Chrysalis" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


As far as Kosh, this is about all JMS revealed:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> > Kosh Naranek, is this Kosh's real name or does he just use it to
> be identified by the people on Babylon 5?

His name is less a *name* and more of a description.
jms


Kosh Naranek and Ulkesh Naranek;
Naranek is a title/designation.
jms

Zha is the usual reference for the future, whose meaning changes depending on whether it's a suffix or a prefix, and what it's up against. Isil-zha usually means change, changing the future, coming of a new age; entil-zha is the one who creates or guides the forces creating the future; and z'ha'dum (with the broken zha) is the death of the future, or the dark future.

And yes, Kosh and Ulkesh were contemporaries, though Ulkesh was the more military of the two, very isolationist, while Kosh was the curious one, interested in the younger races, and more willing to extend himself (with sometimes unfortunate results). Kosh always worried what Ulkesh would do without his moderating presence ... and ultimately had to be the one to take him down to allow the younger races to step forward.

jms
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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