No mention of technomages

[QMCO5]

Recently I watched the JMS commentary on Z'Ha'Dum and JMS made no mention of the technomage backstory that explains some of the mysteries of that episode, such as how the White Star was able to crash into the planet without being shot down. It just seemed peculiar to me that JMS wound not make the connection with his own inspired technomage novels.

QMCO5

 

[colonyearth]

Not everyone has read the novels and so such a mention would be dubious. JMS' commentaries usually stick with the series itself or the subsequent TV incarnations in the B5 universe.

I'm hoping we see some of this important info in exposition in TMoS.

CE

 

[KoshFan]

Y'know, maybe JMS is like me and decided that having a technomage running around helping Sheridan really undermined the power of that episode, and so has decided to overlook it.

After all, the defensive system is never really alluded to in the show itself, and it could easily be argued that the majority of the available Shadow ships were off at B5, so why bother explaining a problem that the novels made up? There's no visual obstacle to the White Star in the episode itself, and so down it goes without trouble.

 

[QMCO5]

Good points. Of course, the Shadows probably wouldn't rely on orbital defense platforms as earth, but would have underground missIle or laser systems as Epsilon 3. Some fans have probably assumed the defenses at Z'Ha'Dum would be invincible, but every defense has a weakness. It's only a matter of finding and exploiting it. No one gave truck bombs much consideration in the U.S. until Oklahoma City. The Z'Ha'Dum defense plans may not have considered a suicide ship intent on deliberately crashing into the surface. You're probably right that the novel solved a problem that didn't really exist.

QMCO5

 

[grumbler]

Y'know, maybe JMS is like me and decided that having a technomage running around helping Sheridan really undermined the power of that episode, and so has decided to overlook it.

* Mild Technomage Spoiler
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Ditto for the reason why Sheridan suddenly figured out the Shadow strategy just before Walkabout. The tendency to overplay Galen at Sheridan's expense was the only real flaw in the Technomage series, IMO.
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[KoshFan]

May well have been the only flaw, but it was a huge one.

 

[ibwolf]

The Z'Ha'Dum defense plans may not have considered a suicide ship intent on deliberately crashing into the surface.

Especially a suicide ship that had made it into low orbit without being intercepted. I always figured that the reason it worked was because the primary defenses were farther out away from the planet and that the Wite Star was effectively within their perimiter. So when Sheridan sent it the go code there simply wasn't enough time to adjust the defenses and intercept it.

 

[KoshN]

Y'know, maybe JMS is like me and decided that having a technomage running around helping Sheridan really undermined the power of that episode, and so has decided to overlook it.

Perhaps JMS just didn't want to spoil the novels for people who have not read them yet. IMHO, the power of the episode was not undermined by what happened on Z'ha'dum in the Technomage novels.

After all, the defensive system is never really alluded to in the show itself, and it could easily be argued that the majority of the available Shadow ships were off at B5, so why bother explaining a problem that the novels made up?

It's not a problem. It wouldn't have mattered if 1000 Shadow Battlecrabs would have been at Z'ha'dum when the Whitestar was crashed into the planet. All the battlecrabs were under the control of The Eye.

There's no visual obstacle to the White Star in the episode itself, and so down it goes without trouble.

You're right in that we see no battlecrabs at Z'ha'dum when Sheridan caused the Whitestar to crash into that planet. However, because we don't see/hear Galen on Z'ha'dum in the episode, it doesn't mean that Galen wasn't there. In almost all cases, Cavelos has deftly woven the Technomage trilogy into the episodes that the trilogy touched (e.g. The Geometry of Shadows, Interludes and Examinations, Z'ha'dum, and Epiphanies).

IMHO, The Technomage trilogy gets rid of this problem:
Lurker's Guide "Z'ha'dum" Analysis
"Z'ha'dum's defenses are similarly flawed; the White Star was able to crash into the surface of the planet intact, apparently with no opposition on the way down. Why weren't the Shadows vigorously protecting their homeworld? Obviously they left the White Star alone while it was in orbit because of their guarantee to Sheridan, but once it started plummeting toward one of their cities, it's odd that they didn't shoot it out of the sky."


There are only a couple of places where Cavelos blundered, and this is not one of them.

 

[vacantlook]

I have to admit, for some reason, I felt rather disappointed to read of the technomage's influence on the show's events in the Technomage Trilogy. I respect that the author had a tremendous challenge in writing the relevant parts of the novel around the relevant episodes, but I came away from reading the trilogy feeling the show's episodes to have had their story weakened.

For example, I personally prefer seeing the events of "Z'ha'dum" as Sheridan being alone on the planet having to face off against the Shadows and their servants without anyone else there to help him (except Kosh in his head).

I don't know, maybe I would have enjoyed the Technomage Trilogy had it not seemed like everytime I turned the page I had to read a description of the "tech echoing" pretty much EVERYTHING. I only needed to read such descriptions a couple of times before I got it, all the rest felt like over-fluff description filler that distracted from the story.

 

[KoshN]

I have to admit, for some reason, I felt rather disappointed to read of the technomage's influence on the show's events in the Technomage Trilogy. I respect that the author had a tremendous challenge in writing the relevant parts of the novel around the relevant episodes, but I came away from reading the trilogy feeling the show's episodes to have had their story weakened.

For example, I personally prefer seeing the events of "Z'ha'dum" as Sheridan being alone on the planet having to face off against the Shadows and their servants without anyone else there to help him (except Kosh in his head).

...and Lorien in the pit.

know, maybe I would have enjoyed the Technomage Trilogy had it not seemed like everytime I turned the page I had to read a description of the "tech echoing" pretty much EVERYTHING. I only needed to read such descriptions a couple of times before I got it, all the rest felt like over-fluff description filler that distracted from the story.

...or the re-re-re-description of the scouring. Yes, a lot of that could have been edited out. Still, no big deal.

 

[vacantlook]

...and Lorien in the pit.

I think I kinda see Lorien as help, after the fact -- probably has something to do with the events being seperated by episodes and seasons.

...or the re-re-re-description of the scouring. Yes, a lot of that could have been edited out. Still, no big deal.

LOL, yeah, the scouring got old too. It just became monotonous after a while and caused me to become bored with the story. Maybe the medium in which the story was told (book) made it worse for me than if it had the same story (ie the events told from the perspective of the technomages) been told in an episode or movie.

Anyway, as the Technomage Trilogy stands, I found it rather bland and boring for the most part. (There were occational parts I like, but they were few and far between.)

 

[KoshN]

Anyway, as the Technomage Trilogy stands, I found it rather bland and boring for the most part. (There were occational parts I like, but they were few and far between.)

For me, it was:

<ul type="square">
[*]~5% bland and boring (e.g. repetitive description of scourings, etc.)

[*]0.1% infuriating (the error concerning where the ship blew up, and who on B5 saw it blow up, and those inconsistancies vs. "The Geometry of Shadows"), and

[*]94.9% exciting or at least interesting (e.g. Galen and Isabelle spying on the Drakh and discovering the Shadow communications and the Shadows themselves, and the seven basic spells, Galen and Blaylock on Thenothk (sp?), and especially the showdown on Z'ha'dum with Galen, Elizar, Razeel, Morden, and culminating with the Whitestar crashing into the planet, and Galen's encounter with Wierden and The Eye.).
[/list]

 

[KoshFan]

The problem with the technomages, in a nutshell, was that they undermined the character of Sheridan. Who is, after all, the hero -- not that you'd know that from the books.

It would sort of be like another author, coming in and writing additional novels for the Lord of the Rings, indicating that a wizard only tangentially mentioned in the original books went around making things easier for Aragorn. Worse yet, it would be like said wizard appearing on the slopes of Mt. Doom to magically fill Frodo and Sam with energy.

The rest was fine; I even liked the concept of the Eye. But leave Sheridan alone.

I just didn't like that.

 

[Jendia]

I agree that portraying Galen as having so much power undermined Sheridan. It's too convenient, and while I mostly enjoyed the stories, and Galen is one of my favorite characters, this particular aspect left me feeling uneasy about the books.
Jendia

 

[Elenopa]

It would sort of be like another author, coming in and writing additional novels for the Lord of the Rings, indicating that a wizard only tangentially mentioned in the original books went around making things easier for Aragorn. Worse yet, it would be like said wizard appearing on the slopes of Mt. Doom to magically fill Frodo and Sam with energy.

So that's what Radagast the Brown was doing

 

[darth_librarian]

It would sort of be like another author, coming in and writing additional novels for the Lord of the Rings, indicating that a wizard only tangentially mentioned in the original books went around making things easier for Aragorn. Worse yet, it would be like said wizard appearing on the slopes of Mt. Doom to magically fill Frodo and Sam with energy.

Good point. Unfortunately that appears to be exactly what EA are doing with a new Lord of the Rings computer game The Third Age. Seems ridicuous, just as it was in the Technomages books.

And nothing is sacred anymore.

 

[Kosomot]

Although these books are considered canon by JMS it seems that he has decided there is some hierarchy in the canon with the show itself taking precedence over the novels.

It seems a wise choice to me considering the Technomage Trilogy seems to have the same problem as the terrible (non-canon) SW novels which feature characters who constantly take away from the importance of the movie characters.

 

[grumbler]

The problem with the technomages, in a nutshell, was that they undermined the character of Sheridan. Who is, after all, the hero -- not that you'd know that from the books.

Agreed, and this is surely one of the most serious temptations to authors writing novels after the fact. They get wrapped up in their charactors and their egos become the charactor's egos, so whenever their charactors encounter the canon they just HAVE to influence it.

On the other hand, Cavallos did by far the best job of any of the B5 authors in getting her charactors to 'speak in the voice' of the show charactors. Her Galen, Alwyn, and Elric were spot-on, to the point where I hear Peter Woodward's, Edward Woodward's, and Michael Ansara's voices in my head whenever they spoke in the novel. And that is actually harder, IMO, than Keeping your Charactors' Noses to Themselves.

 

[Flounder]

Actually, I think Londo came off worse than Sheridan did.

Sheridan was, IIRC, the only non-technomage who was let in on the plot to spirit the technomages away. (Although I thought they shouldn't have told him about it after all that effort to keep it secret.)

If you listen to the commentary on "Z'ha'dum", JMS says they "cheated it a little bit" instead of showing how he got out of the room with Justin and out to the balcony. Galen's presence fixes that. Perhaps it makes Sheridan's survival a little bit less miraculous. But I beleive that sometimes miracles result from the improbable acts of individuals interacting in unforseen ways.

And the Eye reminded me strongly of The Lord of Rings, and what Galen did to it reminds me of The Matrix Revolutions.

If the technomage trilogy has any other failure, is that it's too well-formed and complete. Everything mentioned had some kind of bearing on the story. There should have been a few red herrings thrown in. The TV series has a few plot points that never came to anything, because of cast changes. Perhaps that was good thing.