What an alternate TL where there was a space sci fi show on TV from 2010-14 look like

[CmdrShep2154]

I find it sad how there was nothing with space travel on TV from 2010 to 2014.

I find it sad how much TV space sci fi struggled during the 2010s.

What would a timeline where a space themed show became at least half as mainstream as shows like "The Walking Dead" and "Game of Thrones" during the early 2010s be like?

Would it be a timeline where there was a massive international effort involving both government space agencies and the private sector on track to landing humans on Mars by 2020?

And what would the show be like?

A space opera like "Halo" or "Mass Effect"?

Something more "realistic" and "near future" like "For All Mankind"?

Or a mix of both?

A show that starts off as a space race between superpowers then they find a portal connecting our solar system to many other worlds in our solar system and morphs into a more tradition space opera?

Would it come at the cost of the "MCU", "The Walking Dead", and "Game of Thrones" becoming as big as they became in our world?

 

[Looney]

I think with all honesty that it will likely never happen with a Space Based Science Fiction series for one huge reason.... intelligence. The reality of our world is there are MANY with a bias against Science Fiction, in particular Space Based Science Fiction, because of social stigmas and the fact that they just can't wrap their head around it. Look at the series you mentioned. While the MCU has HEAVY Science Fiction themes it is also rarely without fast paced action and a focus on interpersonal relationships. The Walking Dead is so simplistic it is ridiculous. And Game of Thrones is just a history lesson.....a statement I've heard on far too many occasions. The Walking Dead is about interpersonal human drama on a really basic and uncomplicated level, survival. Game of Thrones is about interpersonal human drama on a more complex level, but with simplistic action and sex. I think in order for a Space Based Science Fiction series to find success it would have to focus on the aspects of interpersonal drama, sex, and action while toning the Science Fiction way down. I'm not joking when I say there are people whom don't want to think about Space Based Science Fiction. They just don't and will not ever get it and they think it would make them look ridiculous to even attempt to understand or enjoy it. I mean look at Star Wars. Other than colorful characters and flashy shiny stuff, they rarely delve into how the Science Fiction works.
Rarely does anything about the science of things come up. Mostly what comes up is mysticism. "THE FORCE" is always a main topic of discussion, not how a person can travel the galaxy in a small fighter the size of a Volkswagen. .... Thanks for sparking this rant. :guffaw:

 

[Springer]

I'm not quite sure what the OP is saying – that if there'd be a popular space science fiction show in the early 2010s then we'd have sent astronauts to Mars by now? I don't quite see the connection – no matter how popular a TV show is, it's not going to make politicians change their minds and give space agencies lots more money.

Science fiction on TV has always been quite cyclical anyway. After the original Star Trek ended in 1969, I don't think there was another space-based science fiction show until Space:1999 in 1975, then the original Battlestar and Blake's 7 in 1978. Then after those shows, nothing springs to mind until 1987 and TNG. So we've had lulls before.

My advice: if there's no good TV shows, then read a book. It's where most of the best science fiction is anyway.

I think in order for a Space Based Science Fiction series to find success it would have to focus on the aspects of interpersonal drama, sex, and action while toning the Science Fiction way down.

I don't quite agree (though I know what point you're making, that science fiction places more emphasis on high-concept ideas). The best science fiction is about people (or aliens that look like people), and stories about people are invariably about interpersonal drama on some level. It's why sometimes Star Trek can feel a little stale because of the Roddenberry edict not to have the crew arguing, and why the best episodes of Trek were often when McCoy and Spock are arguing, or Odo and Quark are put together, or some guest character comes aboard the Enterprise to stir things up with the crew. Nu-BSG was practically built on inter-personal drama, and B5 had plenty too, though the stakes were usually much higher.

I think The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones achieved their highs, in terms of audience popularity, because of a combination of things that happened all at the right time. They both genuinely gave us things that we had never seen on TV before, so they felt 'new' (a rant I'll get onto in a minute). They also came at a time when it was starting to get cool to like nerdy things– the stigma Looney mentions was starting to fade – if you didn't watch WD or GoT, you were suddenly 'un-cool' and were perceived to be missing out on something culturally important. And finally, they came on the scene just before the advent of streaming TV, where frankly there's too much choice and nobody subscribes to all the streaming channels, so I'm not sure if any TV show can genuinely become that big again simply for that reason. For All Mankind might be a really good show, but lots of people like me don't have Apple TV, so won't get to see it. Ditto I've not seen any of the Star Wars shows because I don't have Disney+. The Walking Dead was on Fox, which I think lots of people could watch? And GoT didn't do anywhere near WD's viewing numbers, despite it's popularity, because it was on HBO (or Sky Atlantic over here in the UK). I think more people watched pirate copies!

My main problem with TV space-based science fiction now is that very little of it is new. We've got more Trek sequels, more Star Wars shows, yet another BSG reboot, a B5 reboot, shows based on computer games like Halo or on books like The Expanse or comic books. Even WD and GoT were not new ideas, even though what they did on TV was revolutionary. Where are all the genuinely original TV shows that aren't based on anything that has come before? There's the Katee Sackhoff show on Netflix which admittedly I haven't watched and probably should before I cancel my Netflix subscription; before that there was Killjoys and Dark Matter, neither of which I could get into. Even Dune, which I think represents the great new hope for science fiction cinema, is based on a book series and has been filmed before. And it'll probably spark a flurry of adaptions of science fiction books – Denis Villeneuve has already optioned Rendezvous with Rama. Where are the good original screenplays?

 

[Looney]

I'm not quite sure what the OP is saying – that if there'd be a popular space science fiction show in the early 2010s then we'd have sent astronauts to Mars by now? I don't quite see the connection – no matter how popular a TV show is, it's not going to make politicians change their minds and give space agencies lots more money.

Science fiction on TV has always been quite cyclical anyway. After the original Star Trek ended in 1969, I don't think there was another space-based science fiction show until Space:1999 in 1975, then the original Battlestar and Blake's 7 in 1978. Then after those shows, nothing springs to mind until 1987 and TNG. So we've had lulls before.

My advice: if there's no good TV shows, then read a book. It's where most of the best science fiction is anyway.

I think in order for a Space Based Science Fiction series to find success it would have to focus on the aspects of interpersonal drama, sex, and action while toning the Science Fiction way down.

I don't quite agree (though I know what point you're making, that science fiction places more emphasis on high-concept ideas). The best science fiction is about people (or aliens that look like people), and stories about people are invariably about interpersonal drama on some level. It's why sometimes Star Trek can feel a little stale because of the Roddenberry edict not to have the crew arguing, and why the best episodes of Trek were often when McCoy and Spock are arguing, or Odo and Quark are put together, or some guest character comes aboard the Enterprise to stir things up with the crew. Nu-BSG was practically built on inter-personal drama, and B5 had plenty too, though the stakes were usually much higher.

I think The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones achieved their highs, in terms of audience popularity, because of a combination of things that happened all at the right time. They both genuinely gave us things that we had never seen on TV before, so they felt 'new' (a rant I'll get onto in a minute). They also came at a time when it was starting to get cool to like nerdy things– the stigma Looney mentions was starting to fade – if you didn't watch WD or GoT, you were suddenly 'un-cool' and were perceived to be missing out on something culturally important. And finally, they came on the scene just before the advent of streaming TV, where frankly there's too much choice and nobody subscribes to all the streaming channels, so I'm not sure if any TV show can genuinely become that big again simply for that reason. For All Mankind might be a really good show, but lots of people like me don't have Apple TV, so won't get to see it. Ditto I've not seen any of the Star Wars shows because I don't have Disney+. The Walking Dead was on Fox, which I think lots of people could watch? And GoT didn't do anywhere near WD's viewing numbers, despite it's popularity, because it was on HBO (or Sky Atlantic over here in the UK). I think more people watched pirate copies!

My main problem with TV space-based science fiction now is that very little of it is new. We've got more Trek sequels, more Star Wars shows, yet another BSG reboot, a B5 reboot, shows based on computer games like Halo or on books like The Expanse or comic books. Even WD and GoT were not new ideas, even though what they did on TV was revolutionary. Where are all the genuinely original TV shows that aren't based on anything that has come before? There's the Katee Sackhoff show on Netflix which admittedly I haven't watched and probably should before I cancel my Netflix subscription; before that there was Killjoys and Dark Matter, neither of which I could get into. Even Dune, which I think represents the great new hope for science fiction cinema, is based on a book series and has been filmed before. And it'll probably spark a flurry of adaptions of science fiction books – Denis Villeneuve has already optioned Rendezvous with Rama. Where are the good original screenplays?

THE BIGGEST THING YOU FORGOT IS THE ORVILLE RETURNS THIS WEEK ON HULU!!!!!

Yes I deeply regret not mentioning the stigma is fading, however, I still feel like it is present against Space based Science Fiction. And the failures of new Star Trek shows is not helping. I say failure because the best compliments I've heard about new Trek shows is that they are just "Okay." Actually a friend of mine just said Strange New Worlds is the best thing since TNG.

 

[Springer]

THE BIGGEST THING YOU FORGOT IS THE ORVILLE RETURNS THIS WEEK ON HULU!!!!!

Yes I deeply regret not mentioning the stigma is fading, however, I still feel like it is present against Space based Science Fiction. And the failures of new Star Trek shows is not helping. I say failure because the best compliments I've heard about new Trek shows is that they are just "Okay." Actually a friend of mine just said Strange New Worlds is the best thing since TNG.

I was about to spring to the defence of the new Star Trek shows, personally I wouldn't say they were failing, but actually, yeah, they are often just 'okay'. They are no where near as bad as some people make out, but they do have their problems, though I'm finding there are still things worth watching in them. I enjoyed Picard season 2 but the pacing was off - it should have been 6-7 episodes long, not 10, so it felt padded out and meandering. But overall I enjoyed that. Discovery I find has good characters and actors, often terrible stories. I've not seen SNW yet but Anson Mount was great as Pike in Discovery season 2 (which was the best season of that show, though I've not seen season 4 yet). I think where Discovery and Picard really struggle is with the serialised storytelling; they stretch things out, can take ages to get to the point, and focus on characterisation that doesn't always quite ring true masquerading as actual plot. How can I put it? Sometimes their stories are less about plot and more about the characters' internal struggles or their true nature, and the technical specifics of the plot sometimes end up being convoluted to accommodate that, rather than allowing the characterisation to linearly follow what's happening in the story. As I understand it, SNW is more episodic, which might be why fans raised on old episodic Trek might be enjoying it more?

I'd still say that new-Trek is as good as Voyager, and the first three seasons of Enterprise (not season 4, which was brilliant up until the last episode). And definitely large chunks of the first 3 or 4 seasons of DS9 which I thought were mostly dull, dull dull. Hmm – maybe Star Trek was always only 'okay', with occasional diamonds in the rough, and our rose tinted spectacles make us think it was better? In that case you should definitely give new Trek a go.

And yes, I shouldn't have left out The Orville in my missive, though I couldn't get into it. Is it a comedy? I've heard it's morphed into more of a Trek-style drama, but I couldn't get beyond the first 3 episodes which I found neither comedic nor dramatic. But I guess it is an original space-based science fiction show, even if it does lean heavily on Star Trek.

 

[KoshFan]

Where are the good original screenplays?

There are lots of them! But they don't get made, or get made on small scales, because we have to remember that the investors aren't in this to make art, they're in this to make cash. And proven commodities are much more likely to make cash than new and daring ideas.

I've heard it argued that the studios don't want another surprise smash hit like Star Wars, because it messes with their financial projections!

 

[hypatia]

If true, I can't say it would surprise me. It seems that mega-movie universes are the goal, these days. Like Star Trek? Star Wars? Marvel or DC Comics? Well, get ready for a million projects, of varying quality.

 

[Looney]

Your definitely want to give THE ORVILLE another go. It has comedic elements, but most of the episodes have very little comedy. Trust Looney. If you enjoy Trek you will definitely enjoy THE ORVILLE.

And to clarify, my statements on new Trek shows were purely based on hearsay. I just hear things said often. :guffaw:

BUT I have not personally been able to give any of the new Treks a go. (I will be honest, I've never gotten into DS9, Voyager, or Enterprise. Seen episodes but never gone all in. I intend to some day.) And knowing Looney I'm sure that if everyone else says they are just "Okay" I'll probably love them. LOL But now that you said that about Picard I feel I must point out that I'm REALLY getting sick of "Slow Burns". It seems every show has adopted the "Slow Burn" philosophy instead of just starting off with a good complex story. I'll use one of my favorite Netflix Marvel's Series as an example. LUKE CAGE Season One was great, but there are like four episodes in the middle of the season that are just total wastes of time. I really enjoyed that season, but by episode four or five you pretty much know where we are headed and instead of getting there they waste sooo much of my time getting through the next several episodes.

 

[Springer]

I wouldn't say Picard season 2 is a slow burn. It starts off really fast-moving, but there's just not enough plot to fill 10 episodes, so they drag it out in the middle – in my opinion, anyway.

I will have to give The Orville another go (not sure what channel it is shown on in the UK). Every time I hear its name, I think of a certain puppet and ventriloquist from when I was a kid called Orville, makes me struggle to take the show seriously!

 

[LateArrival]

Your definitely want to give THE ORVILLE another go. It has comedic elements, but most of the episodes have very little comedy. Trust Looney. If you enjoy Trek you will definitely enjoy THE ORVILLE.

The Orville is absolutely worth watching, even without focusing on comedy as it did in the first season. These days it almost seems like an alternate TNG, although sometimes do miss the humor. One example from S1 was when there was a fire on the bridge, and the fire control system wasn't available since that was what was on fire.

Although I'd guess the only reason this show made it on the air (and stayed on the air) is because of Seth's influence and all the other money-making shows he he is involved in. If someone came in Off The Street and tried to pitch something like The Orville, would probably have been rejected. Speaking of which, read that Seth might not be interested in a season four. Would this mean the end of the show as his not being there would make the show Too Risky for another season?

 

[Looney]

Speaking of which, read that Seth might not be interested in a season four. Would this mean the end of the show as his not being there would make the show Too Risky for another season?

This might help answer your question....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjPkhhnDnUk

I highly recommend this channel for those who worship THE ORVILLE. JP now gets all of the inside scoops on the show because he utterly devoted his YouTube to it. And honestly he wasn't wrong. I've found the first two episodes of NEW HORIZONS to be amazing. And Episode Two had an appearance from B5 Alumni John Fleck, though he was a Krill and the only way to really know it was him was the voice . . . . and his interest in gambling methods that were a "sure thing". :guffaw: (Yes I made that last bit up.)

 

[LateArrival]

And Episode Two had an appearance from B5 Alumni John Fleck, though he was a Krill and the only way to really know it was him was the voice . . . . and his interest in gambling methods that were a "sure thing". :guffaw: (Yes I made that last bit up.)

Am watching for a certain former station commander and interstellar alliance president to appear. In makeup of course, but since pictures have leaked, should be easy enough to spot. Possibly the closest we'll get to seeing Ambassador Sherdinn.

 

[hypatia]

Speaking of which, read that Seth might not be interested in a season four. Would this mean the end of the show as his not being there would make the show Too Risky for another season?

This might help answer your question....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjPkhhnDnUk

I highly recommend this channel for those who worship THE ORVILLE. JP now gets all of the inside scoops on the show because he utterly devoted his YouTube to it. And honestly he wasn't wrong. I've found the first two episodes of NEW HORIZONS to be amazing. And Episode Two had an appearance from B5 Alumni John Fleck, though he was a Krill and the only way to really know it was him was the voice . . . . and his interest in gambling methods that were a "sure thing". :guffaw: (Yes I made that last bit up.)

Thanks a lot for posting that. I had also feared that Seth might be getting tired of the many complications involved in writing, directing, and starring in a complex science fiction show. It is a fun interview (I subscribed to the channel immediately) and very informative. It hadn't occurred to me that by streaming an author can write episodes of varying length, as the story requires, unlike the requirements of network t.v.

 

[LateArrival]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjPkhhnDnUk

I highly recommend this channel for those who worship THE ORVILLE. JP now gets all of the inside scoops on the show because he utterly devoted his YouTube to it. And honestly he wasn't wrong. I've found the first two episodes of NEW HORIZONS to be amazing. And Episode Two had an appearance from B5 Alumni John Fleck, though he was a Krill and the only way to really know it was him was the voice . . . . and his interest in gambling methods that were a "sure thing". :guffaw: (Yes I made that last bit up.)

Thanks a lot for posting that. I had also feared that Seth might be getting tired of the many complications involved in writing, directing, and starring in a complex science fiction show. It is a fun interview (I subscribed to the channel immediately) and very informative. It hadn't occurred to me that by streaming an author can write episodes of varying length, as the story requires, unlike the requirements of network t.v.

Reminds me of what JMS said during his recent Dust-to-Dust commentary - that the B5 scripts were written around the Act Structure (3 acts, 4 acts, 5, etc). Writing had to take a back seat to the Acts, as such is the way of Broadcast Television. He said with streaming one didn't necessarily have to be confined to writing in Acts. More options. Better options.