aborted B5 spinoff series with original cast?

[Jan]

Shabaz, yes there's certainly an incentive motive involved. Why not? But if there wasn't a hefty measure of generosity also involved, why would even the shipping for volume 15 be included, both domestic and overseas? When was the last time you saw something like that?

Oh, please (to use your own tone back to you, Mac ) ...do you *really* think that JMS is hurting so much that he needs our money that badly? Yeah, I'm sure he's making a few bucks on the script books, but after taking Cafe' Press's major cut of the gross, then the fees for layout, proofreading and customer service that he's incurring, it can't even be a tiny fraction of what he's making these days for a script. Maybe, just maybe he really does want this stuff to be accessible to the fans?

It's always interesting when people attribute motives to people they don't know based on their own suspicious natures or other base motives. Can we say sour grapes?

Jan

 

[Jan]

How much did the volumes cost, if you bought 1-14?

Depends on when you buy them. Assuming that you get them at the first week introductory price and didn't use any of the freely available coupons, $420.

Anyhow, it's a gift or a selling tactic. Or both.

Both would make sense. See my other post for thoughts on how much it costs to produce the books without even calculating anything for JMS's original new content. Because he's sure not getting massively wealthy off of this project.

Jan

 

[KoshN]

Oh, please (to use your own tone back to you, Mac ) ...do you *really* think that JMS is hurting so much that he needs our money that badly?

Hurting so much, no.

Yeah, I'm sure he's making a few bucks on the script books, but after taking Cafe' Press's major cut of the gross, then the fees for layout, proofreading and customer service that he's incurring, it can't even be a tiny fraction of what he's making these days for a script. Maybe, just maybe he really does want this stuff to be accessible to the fans?

Sure, he wants the stuff to be accessible to the fans. He also wants to encourage the fans to buy ALL of them. Perhaps this was a way of sweetening the deal for Cafepress. Everybody makes more money this way.

It's always interesting when people attribute motives to people they don't know based on their own suspicious natures or other base motives.

To think that having a Volume 15 that is not for sale individually, and is only obtainable (free or not) via purchasing ALL of the previous 14 volumes, is solely altruistic, is naive. Granted, it's better than having to pay for Volume 15 as well, but it's not solely out of the goodness of anybody's heart. It's 99% a way to boost sales of Volumes 1 thru 14.

Can we say sour grapes?

Jan

Oh, how wrong you are. My attitude towards all this is "C'est la vie." Too bad, so sad, moving on now. It's just that I prefer to call a spade a spade, and recognize it for what it is, a sales tactic.

 

[Shabaz]

Shabaz, yes there's certainly an incentive motive involved. Why not? But if there wasn't a hefty measure of generosity also involved, why would even the shipping for volume 15 be included, both domestic and overseas? When was the last time you saw something like that?

Oh, please (to use your own tone back to you, Mac ) ...do you *really* think that JMS is hurting so much that he needs our money that badly? Yeah, I'm sure he's making a few bucks on the script books, but after taking Cafe' Press's major cut of the gross, then the fees for layout, proofreading and customer service that he's incurring, it can't even be a tiny fraction of what he's making these days for a script. Maybe, just maybe he really does want this stuff to be accessible to the fans?

It's always interesting when people attribute motives to people they don't know based on their own suspicious natures or other base motives. Can we say sour grapes?

Jan

Suspicious natures and base motives? People are saying that with someone selling certain products money might be a motivator; that doesn't seem suspicious or base to me, that sounds like common sense. And I'm not sure why you're accusing us of having a suspicious nature and base motives merely for making some pretty common sense suggestions. And like I said, I personally don't think there is really anything wrong or base about it, and as such I can't really answer your "why not?", since I am perfectly fine with there being some profit motive to the way volume 15 is handled.

As for sour grapes, I had to look that up, and apparently it means the "denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired". I'm not sure if that is true here; the initial question was in fact the opposite of the "denial of desirability", with someone saying volume 15 was the most desirable of the bunch.

And the free shipping is just as the free book only given after having spent a certain (fairly large) amount of money, and as such is as much of an incentive as the book. Again, there is nothing wrong with trying to give people a good deal, and that certainly may be a factor in both having a decent per script price compared to regular script publications and having what is in effect a 6.7% extra discount for people who are getting the entire set. But there is a difference between having a good business sense and caring about giving your costumers a good deal, and being motivated by generosity. And, again, I personally am fine with that, even if it means I will not be able to get my hands on that 15th volume.

 

[KoshN]

As for sour grapes, I had to look that up, and apparently it means the "denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired". I'm not sure if that is true here; the initial question was in fact the opposite of the "denial of desirability", with someone saying volume 15 was the most desirable of the bunch.

With regards to me, she means that I'm saying something negative about the whole Volume 15 arrangement because I'm angry, disappointed, sour on the idea because I can't afford to buy the all of the first 14 volumes. However, that's not true. I'm just pointing out that it's a sales tactic, that it's 99% designed to get people to buy all of the first 14 volumes, and is not purely altruistic.

And, again, I personally am fine with that, even if it means I will not be able to get my hands on that 15th volume.

Likewise.

Personally, I'd be happiest if I could buy all of the extras sans the scripts. The only reason I'm buying any of the volumes is for the extras, ...the behind the scenes stuff, the photos, the notes, etc.

 

[KoshFan]

If volume 15 were shipped unexpectedly as a surprise, then it's a gift.

If it's advertised, it's an incentive.

That's the 2 cents of a man who doesn't care one way or another.

 

[RMcD]

Another (presumably intentional) outcome is that the 15th volume itself becomes an extremely rare and desirable collectible - both because of its content, and as however successful the promotion is only a very small number of people are likely going to pay the $420 for the first 14, so that it's probably only ever going to exist in tiny numbers.

So I think it makes sense on both levels - of course it encourages a few people who might not otherwise to spend the money and collect em' all (though I doubt even the publishers have too many illusions about how many will do so), and at the same time rewards those that do with an item whose value will be vastly inflated by its scarcity (a smart way to be altruistic in a commercial setting without incurring any significant untoward cost).

 

[GaribaldisHair]

I am buying 1 through 14, and that is motivated by the fact that I can afford to and I would really like volume 15. If not for that incentive, I would probably pick up no more than 4, or maybe 5, of the books for those parts of the story I am most interested in.

Oh ... and factoring in shipping (which Jan didn't do in her calculations) at $7 per book (being in the UK) makes the total cost nearer $520. Given the content of the books, and the promise of what is in volume 15 I think it is worth it.

I personally don't think that Vol 15 is being given away for any other reason than as an incentive to buy all of the others rather than cherry-pick. But that's fair enough ... because it is still my choice at the end of the day.

 

[hypatia]

Depends on when you buy them. Assuming that you get them at the first week introductory price and didn't use any of the freely available coupons, $420.

Right, so the best offer was $420 for the set. For an extra $120 you could pay for a semester of tuition at my college. (Fees are extra, not free. )

I just made a tongue-in-cheek comment, and I think people's blood is getting hot over it.

Hey, how many writer/producers even let their scripts be published? So no harm done if he wants to reward those who support the project's financial goals. It's lucky he's put them up for sale at all, really.

But you have to be a fan with some resources to shell out $420. And so many points raised here are vailid.

It all comes down to, he decided to do it this way, and that's the way it's going to be done. Until sci-fi geeks estate sales start to pop up on Ebay.

 

[Jan]

If volume 15 were shipped unexpectedly as a surprise, then it's a gift.

A pretty theory until you realize that nobody but CP would have access to the records needed to send them out as a surprise and there'd be serious privacy concerns if they gave that information to the Scripts Team. That's why there's a proof of purchase form that'll be available. Not to mention that even if you get some of the book as gifts from people who like you a whole lot, you can still qualify for Volume 15.

[Quote-Garibaldis Hair]Oh ... and factoring in shipping (which Jan didn't do in her calculations) at $7 per book (being in the UK) makes the total cost nearer $520. Given the content of the books, and the promise of what is in volume 15 I think it is worth it. [/quote]
Yeah, but if you find a $10 off coupon for each book and buy it in the first week you end up with the postage free and another $3 off the books making it $378.

Jan

 

[Chris Springob]

Ah ha! Sorry, but if I may be allowed to bring this thread back OT, I think I may be able to fill in some of the gaps I had in my timeline of how the Rangers spinoff series idea gradually mutated into Crusade. I hadn't really been following this thread:

http://www.b5tv.com/showthread.php?p=290057

but I was just catching up on it, and noticed a couple of things. One: The mention of a February 1997 Dreamwatch interview with JMS in which he talks extensively about Crusade. I was able to find a transcript of that interview here:

http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache...ste&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a

(Sorry, the page wouldn't load, and that link is to the cached version from Google. Not the most readable thing in the world.)

Anyway, you should read all of the Crusade stuff written there. I actually do have a vague recollection of reading this interview online 10 years ago. But I'd forgotten most of this. Anyway, JMS goes into detail about the Drakh plague storyline. And there's this:

But the science that made the virus is literally thousands of years ahead of us; we could break it in time, but we don't have time. Our only hope is the Ranger fleet, which goes out to scour worlds on the Rim and elsewhere for leftover First One cities. The First Ones are gone, but in many cases their ancient cities, their sealed vaults, their secrets, still remain. Somewhere, out there, in one of those ancient deserted cities, is the cure we need to save humanity.
.
.
.
Central characters would include one of the nine surviving Zathras brothers, one of the family Zathras; the command staff of one of the main explorer vessels The Excalibur; a warrior caste Minbari; the lone survivor of a world wiped out by the Shadow allies; a lone Technomage sent back to see if the coast is clear for the others to come back; a bioigeneticist and a representative from Interplanetary Expeditions, whose goal may not be the same as the rest.

Anyway, note how JMS is refering to “the Ranger fleet” and, based on the context, one is left with the impression that The Excalibur is crewed by Rangers. And as I pointed out in my previous post, JMS continued to refer to Crusade as “the Rangers series” for many months after this. Clearly at some point the decision was made to shift it from a Ranger crewed ship to an EA crewed ship, and that's presumably why the warrior caste Minbari character was dropped.

That thread also had a link to this, very interesting series of postings by JMS from four years ago when Jerry Doyle was trying to put together a B5 series revival:

http://www.jmsnews.com/thread.aspx?id=_Jerry Doyle hopeful of B5 revival

That whole series of posts is worth reading, but here's the big one (“>” indicates a questioner on the moderated group; everything else is JMS):

>Do you have any idea where anyone would have gotten the idea that
>Crusade was supposedly going to be merely a continuation of the stories
>of the B5 characters? Or is this something that's "just growed," like
>Topsy, from the irresponsible dropping of vague and unfounded comments
>by certain actors in interviews?

It's unfathomable to me. I think people just had a tendency to assume this
would be the case. Or they saw a certain character and resented it, wondering
"why can't that be me?" to the point where it becomes "that was SUPPOSED to be
me."

> He was convinced that Bruce was
>supposed to captain the Excalibur (never mind that Sheridan was no
>longer an Earthforce captain by this point, but president of the
>Interstellar Alliance), but that you and he had had a "falling out" over
>his "being fired suddenly after five years," and so you quickly rewrote
>the role as Gideon instead. I tried to point out to him that no one was
>fired -- the show _ended_ -- and that the show was only ever _supposed_
>to run for five years, and that all of the actors knew that going in.
>He was sure he had the scoop on some conspiracy that I was just too much
>of a slavishly devoted fangirl to see.

Okay, let me put the absolute and total lie to this right now.

I've just gone back into my files and dragged out the ORIGINAL TREATMENT for
Crusade, the one written while B5 was still in production, BEFORE "A Call to
Arms" was ever filmed. The treatment, which was available to WB, Doug, John,
and department keys and I know some cast members got their hands on it, was
dated 6/16/98 (that date is still on the file datestamp).

I quote from a latter part of the treatment, where the characters are
introduced. There are some little variances here and there -- one in
particular that I think will surprise some people -- but this was what was
written at that time...the very first time I put ANYthing down on paper about
Cruade for WB.

One small caveat: I used the terms "infrequently or not at all" primarily
because WB was desperate to make sure that this show was different from B5, so
the "not at all" part was a nod to that, but the "infrequently" was my planned
opening to use the characters from time to time, which was already in the works when the show was pulled.

Quote follows:

--------------------------------------------------

Whether it begins within BABYLON 5 or outside, the CRUSADE pilot movie will
start with the Drakh attack, and end with the revelation about the plague.
It's important to see this happen in current time, rather than hear about it
after the fact. We need to see first-hand what's at stake, and how we got
here.

As a result, the pilot will introduce not only our characters, but the full
situation and setup for the series to come. Because of the attack and
counter-attacks, it will be primarily action-oriented. The focus is not on
diplomacy, or negotiations...the focus is nothing less than the very survival
of our species, and the acts of heroism that result when our characters stand
against terrible and overwhelming odds.

As head of the Rangers, Delenn and Captain John Sheridan give the fleet its
mission, and take part in the pilot movie.

After that, once the battle is over and the fleet is on its way, they will
appear either infrequently or not at all. CRUSADE will stand on its own,
except for possible TNT movie cross-overs.

Let's meet our characters.

CAPTAIN MATTHEW DRAKE, Captain of the Excalibur, the high-tech flagship of the
White Star fleet of ships. (The fleet divides into teams to help increase the
odds of finding a cure; when they find a possible lead, they call in the
Excalibur, wait until it arrives, then they move on to the next destination
while the Excalibur does its work.) In his 30s, dark, brooding, attractive,
he's a fighter whose own Earthforce ship was destroyed during the initial war
with the Drakh. (It wasn't his fault, as we will learn; he was up against
impossible odds and barely managed to save his crew at great risk to himself.)


Personally assigned to the Excalibur by Sheridan, this mission represents his
chance to redeem himself. Hard-headed and practical, a man of action who
doesn't believe in the mysticism practiced by the Minbari and the Rangers; if
he can't feel it or taste it, it doesn't exist. A loner whose harsh exterior
covers a heart that has been wounded too many times, and now refuses to let
anyone near him.

MARCUS COLE, a Ranger established on Babylon 5 during its third and fourth
seasons. Energetic, bright, literary, with a poetic quote always at hand when
it's needed, and a pike or a PPG rifle when force is needed. Trained equally
in martial arts and philosophy. A dashing, romantic figure noted for a
cheerfulness
that belies something much deeper beneath.

-------------------------------------------------

We had to change Drake to Gideon because of a clearance problem, and obviously
the Claudia situation threw a monkey wrench into using the character of Markus, as originally planned.

jms

(jmsatb5@aol.com)
(all message content (c) 2003 by synthetic worlds, ltd.,
permission to reprint specifically denied to SFX Magazine
and don't send me story ideas)

There are a number of things about this that are interesting, and a few that are very odd. First, from “As head of the Rangers, Delenn and Captain John Sheridan give the fleet its mission, and take part in the pilot movie.” It's still “Captain” Sheridan in this version, and this makes it sound like, as of this iteration, it's still supposed to be a Ranger ship (that explains the inclusion of Marcus). OK, that's interesting, but not that strange. Then there's “obviously the Claudia situation threw a monkey wrench into using the character of Markus, as originally planned”. That doesn't make any sense. JMS later clarifies that “the Claudia situation” refers to CC's walkout from the show. But that hadn't happened yet at the time that “Endgame” was filmed (when Marcus is killed). Marcus was definitely not written out of B5 because CC was leaving, as no one knew she'd be leaving at the time his character died.

Another weird thing is that JMS says that this treatment was dated 6/16/98. That has to be a typo. As that would put it after filming had wrapped on **Season 5**. How could they be considering using Marcus at that point, over a year after the character had died? And why would it still be “Captain Sheridan” at this point. Either JMS just goofed when he typed that date, or this treatment includes a bunch of things from a much earlier document that never got updated.

Finally, there's the fact that JMS says that it's “unfathomable” how someone could think that Crusade was ever designed to be a continuation of the original B5 characters' stories. But we now have JMS's memo from Script Book 10, which includes the treatment for “Babylon 5: Rangers”, which was written “in the fall of 1996” (exact date isn't given). Given that the memo suggests the possibility of transplanting up to five characters from B5 over to the spinoff, and that it kinda leaves the impression that Sheridan would be the lead character, I'm scratching my head as to JMS's confusion over where this idea came from.

Now granted, “Rangers” wasn't exactly to be the same thing as “Crusade”, but as I've shown, the former seemed to evolve into the latter as time went on, with various elements being added and subtracted until we were left with what we now know as Crusade. And JMS was even using the title “Crusade” as of November 1996, around the same time this memo (which included the idea of transplanting many of the B5 cast over to the spinoff) was written. Why would he be surprised that word might have gotten around that the spinoff series had originally been intended to include a number of the original cast? I don't get it.

 

[KoshN]

Right, so the best offer was $420 for the set.

With shipping, in the US, if you took advantage of getting every one during the discount period, it comes to $489.30. Back when I had a relatively high paying job of almost 19 years, it wouldn't have been a problem. Now, since getting downsized and working in a crap job that doesn't pay 1/3rd what I used to make, it is.

It's actually funny that the stuff I've always wanted has finally come out now that I can't afford to buy it, e.g. the Nikon D-series Pro Digital SLRs, some really hot Mustangs (2001 Bullitt, 2003-2004 Cobras, the new GT, etc.), etc. The universe has a helluva sense of humor. If anybody wants to engage in a little schadenfreude, feel free.

Sorry about this being off-topic. I'm usually one to try to bring things back ON-topic.

 

[RMcD]

Anyway, note how JMS is refering to “the Ranger fleet” and, based on the context, one is left with the impression that The Excalibur is crewed by Rangers. And as I pointed out in my previous post, JMS continued to refer to Crusade as “the Rangers series” for many months after this. Clearly at some point the decision was made to shift it from a Ranger crewed ship to an EA crewed ship, and that's presumably why the warrior caste Minbari character was dropped.

I am pretty sure, although can't remember how I got this impression, that the rangers idea was dropped from Crusade because TNT wanted another season of B5, and when they didn't get it they pushed for Crusade to be a new, self-contained show with as few direct references as possible to events in B5, which they decided would only confuse people (wish I could find that quote). I think that's why the rangers barely feature in the 13 episodes that were filmed, and there aren't many explicit references to the B5 arc. LotR, which didn't have the constraints imposed by TNT, was then a reversion to something closer to JMS' original plan.

Interesting to note that, afte the events of ACTA, the way is still open for a Ranger crew to take command of the Excalibur with Dureena and Galen (it's a destroyer class White Star, after all).

 

[RMcD]

Had some time just now, so dug out this post on JMSnews from 29th Oct 1999:

>Then, since hindsight is 20/20, it appears you should have sold Crusade to
>TNT as being as B5-like as possible. Ties to the known commodity could only
>have helped here (e.g. B5 actors guest appearing on Crusade often).

Except at first TNT said they wanted NO connection to B5, or as little as
possible, because they wanted it to be THEIR show...then, after they began to
realize that the connection made sense (well into the writing process, I might
add), they said no, no, it's OKAY to have B5 stuff going on...which is why
Lochley is gone for so long.

jms

 

[KoshN]

I am pretty sure, although can't remember how I got this impression, that the rangers idea was dropped from Crusade because TNT wanted another season of B5, and when they didn't get it they pushed for Crusade to be a new, self-contained show with as few direct references as possible to events in B5, which they decided would only confuse people (wish I could find that quote). I think that's why the rangers barely feature in the 13 episodes that were filmed, and there aren't many explicit references to the B5 arc. LotR, which didn't have the constraints imposed by TNT, was then a reversion to something closer to JMS' original plan.

Interesting to note that, afte the events of ACTA, the way is still open for a Ranger crew to take command of the Excalibur with Dureena and Galen (it's a destroyer class White Star, after all).

Had some time just now, so dug out this post on JMSnews from 29th Oct 1999:

Then I ultimately view that as a positive contribution on TNT's part, because I like what we eventaully got with Crusade and detest what we got with the Rangers pilot. Would have liked to have seen Marcus (a real Ranger) on the Crusade crew, but that wasn't possible because he essentially gave his life to save Ivanova.

 

[Chris Springob]

I am pretty sure, although can't remember how I got this impression, that the rangers idea was dropped from Crusade because TNT wanted another season of B5, and when they didn't get it they pushed for Crusade to be a new, self-contained show with as few direct references as possible to events in B5, which they decided would only confuse people (wish I could find that quote). I think that's why the rangers barely feature in the 13 episodes that were filmed, and there aren't many explicit references to the B5 arc. LotR, which didn't have the constraints imposed by TNT, was then a reversion to something closer to JMS' original plan.

And in fact, according to JMS, it wasn't just TNT that wanted B5 to distinguish itself from B5, but WB as well. He says "WB was desperate to make sure that this show was different from B5". It looks like the order of events may have been something like this:

1) JMS proposes a spinoff series focusing on the Rangers, with about half the B5 cast included as regulars.

2) WB and/or TNT doesn't want it to be so closely associated with B5, so the number of original series castmembers that would transfer over is cut down to just one or two, one of whom was Marcus. (This was all happening when Season 4 was in production. "Endgame" hadn't been written yet, so it was still possible Marcus to survive.)

3) Marcus gets killed off in "Endgame". (Maybe WB/TNT was telling JMS that he wouldn't be allowed to have *any* B5 characters in the spinoff, so he figured "what the hell, I'll kill him off????)

4) The idea of focusing the story on the Rangers is nixed in favor of an EA crew.

But it also looks like (based on what's written in the script book) the Drakh plague idea came pretty early in the process. Not sure if that was in there before or after the idea of transfering over about half the B5 cast got dropped. But it definitely came *way* before the idea of using a Ranger crew got dropped.

One thing that's really unclear is when the whole idea of Earth's covert use of Shadow tech (what JMS later described as the "real" story arc) came up. It doesn't sound like that was in JMS's original pitch. It looks like either he was holding that part close to his vest, or it developed over time. Maybe the idea of the Drakh plague actually led to the idea of focusing the show more on Shadow tech. We do know that the idea of a Technomage character was in there kind of early, but not necessarily right at the beginning. It might have come up after the Drakh plague idea.

I also still find it interesting how all of the Arthurian stuff (like the title "Crusade" and the sword in the credits, etc.) was originally in there because the show was supposed to be about the Rangers, and the Rangers are sort of like the knights of the round table. But then the Rangers part was dropped, and the Arthurian stuff stayed in there.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

{snip}
2) WB and/or TNT doesn't want it to be so closely associated with B5, so the number of original series castmembers that would transfer over is cut down to just one or two, one of whom was Marcus. (This was all happening when Season 4 was in production. "Endgame" hadn't been written yet, so it was still possible Marcus to survive.)

3) Marcus gets killed off in "Endgame". (Maybe WB/TNT was telling JMS that he wouldn't be allowed to have *any* B5 characters in the spinoff, so he figured "what the hell, I'll kill him off????)
{snip}

Marcus is not dead he is frozen.

The believe is that Captain Ivanova would have found the aliens who made the life force machine and cured Marcus about half way through Season 5.

 

[KoshN]

Marcus is not dead he is frozen.

The believe is that Captain Ivanova would have found the aliens who made the life force machine and cured Marcus about half way through Season 5.

That would have been a cheat. For Marcus to have survived and for it not to have been a cheat, Ivanova would not have been mortally wounded and hence wouldn't have needed saving. Once Ivanova is mortally wounded and Marcus saves her, Marcus pretty much has to stay down.

 

[RMcD]

The trapdoor was always there for Marcus to come back and rejoin the cast of either spinoff if necessary, however badly it may have undermined the drama of his sacrifice (remember Spock?) at least until that canon short story about him was written (maybe even then).

Franklin would have been revealed to have put his body in cryo - you can see the name plate on his tube in the end credits of Sleeping in Light. Assuming Jason Carter hadn't moved on with his career, and wanted to return, he could have been revived as a regular at any point - both the Excalibur and the Liandra looked set to pay frequent visits to B5.

[EDIT]: The plate on his tube reads:

Cryonic Suspension Chamber
Subject: Marcus Cole
Designation: Ranger
Status: Deceased
Comments: Indefinite hold in the event of new resuscitation technology
Requested by: Cmdr S. Ivanova

[/EDIT]

He doesn't appear in season 5 because with Ivanova gone the obvious context for him to return was gone. He doesn't appear in Crusade, I guess because of the pressure initially to make it an entirely separate show, and because the filming simply didn't go far enough. And he's not in Rangers I would guess for that reason as well. I think JMS would have counted on being forgiven by the fans for dramatically undercutting his death because Marcus was such a massively popular character.

 

[darth_librarian]

There was a (canon?) short story dealing with his return to life in the far future.

I'd love to see the character return in any capacity. Chris (and others..) thanks for all the info you are digging up, its fun reading.

Its interesting to note that the latest attempt at a spin-off is the one to feature most of the original cast, which was JMS's original plan all along...