Afraid of the "more action"....

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Am I the only one a little scared about JMS's comments on how the series will be more of an "action-adventure" orientated series than a political one like B5 was?

If Babylon5 was a political show with little action, what the hell will LR be? B5 had TONS of action....granted, its political part was the best, and strong. But it had a ton of action as well....I'de love to see what JMS has in mind....but Im a little indifferent about it still.

Yeah yeah, IF there is a series. I mean, you cant really have this movie, which is kinda like the pilot, with tons of story. He knows it will make or break the series; if there are alot of ratings on it. So you have to have action to start....you cant start with a deep story line HOPING it will be made into a tv series. With this action element, he ensures that if it doesnt go through as a series, the movie will still be good with action, and nobody will wanna know, "what happened to so and so...the story was so good, what now.." and all that junk.

Cheers

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It has been my observation that if someone cannot say what they mean, they can truly never mean what they say.

 

[MOmega]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

No, you are not the only one (I wrote it here may be one month before

. I have the same feelings.

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[Joseph DeMartino]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

JMS used exactly the same words to describe Crusade. Is there anyone who can seriously say that Crusade lacked mysteries, continuing threads, interesting characters? Just in the first 13 episodes we got:

1. The mysterious, Shadow-like ship that destroyed the Cerberus

2. Galen's rescue of Gideon. How did the technomages happen to be there? Why did Galen rescue Gideon? Didn't the mages depart from B5, as shown in "The Geometry of Shadows" (Much of this has since been answered the Technomage Trilogy.)

3. Matheson, his role in the Telepath War, the new post-Corps Teep regulations.

4. The Apocalypse Box.

5. Max and his dealings with IPX, which may run counter to the interests of the Excalibur and her crew.

6. Dureena's murky history.

Throw in the unproduced scripts and we have:

7. The Teep War again in the form of Alfred Bester, fugitive war criminal, and the still-surviving Psi Corps fleet.

8. Gideon's hunt for the ship that killed Cerberus, its effect on the crew, and on his relationship with Galen.

9. The secret base that hunt leads to, the things revealed there, and the shocking climax of the cliff-hanger episode.

All this from a series with a "less intense" arc than B5's and that was designed to be more an "action/adventure series with dramatic overtones" than a "politico-military drama with action/adventure overtones."

Based on what I've seen and read of Crusade this one-line shorthand description of the show for the benefit of the genre and entertainment press does not concern me one little bit.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net

 

[terrytvgal]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I'm not worried. Think of it this way: all of the political intrigue that defines the B5 universe has to result in somebody doing something. In Rangers we will see the 'trickle-down' effect of political decisions, or agressive outbursts by races (or whatever) on the front line forces that make sure the words of the big wigs are put into actions...

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The avalance has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote.

 

[hypatia]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Yes, I have also had concerns about that. I hope Joe D is right, but I have thought that JMS seems to be aiming at the same groups most sci-fi aim at: action-oriented viewers. I think I basically am hoping that JMS can make it a cerebral show DESPITE his aim at a more traditional tv-science-ficiton fan.

Lets just hope and wait, I guess.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo

 

[Jomar]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I can't say I'm worried about it. I just want a tv show I can enjoy watching, whether it's on an episode by episode basis on on a 5-year arc. We've already seen Babylon 5 so we have to expect something different. If it is more action-oriented what does that mean? 10% more, or what? We do know the crew of Liandra is much younger and they aren't likely to be spending much time sitting around a conference table. Let's just wait and see.

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[RW7427]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I for one like action. The drama and more emotional type storylines are good, but the action in B5 kept me on the edge of my seat many times, and IMHO that is part of what made B5 so good.

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Long live the Salad Rangers! We live for the Salad Bar, we die for the Salad Bar.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

B5 had TONS of action too....

I hated Crusade, Joe. I didnt watch it 3 times through like B5, but I didnt like it one bit. Granted, if all I saw of B5 was season1, I wouldnt expect much out of it. All we had was Londos dream, barely a hint of the coming enemy (How would we know it would be such a dramatic plot device, if all we had was season1) and the encounter with one of the First Ones...along with some other junk. Im used to shows showing stuff like that, then forgetting it. *whispers....Voyagggeerrrr*


Anyhew, YEAH, we want a good show, duh. I know there will be a story arc, if there is a series, and that itll be good. But more action means more cheesy lines, sometimes, and more bad acting. It can also mean lots of yelling, which I love (Sheridan for instance).

Bla bla bla see ya


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It has been my observation that if someone cannot say what they mean, they can truly never mean what they say.

 

[SataiDelenn]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Warren and others, I agree with you.
I also agree regarding Crusade.
I am often surprised at the posts I see wanting Crusade to come back.

Except for Galen, Dureena and Max, every character was a tired retread and completely forgetable. I know I will incur someones ire somewhere, but season one of B5 was immeasurably better than season one of Crusade. The first thirteen episodes were better than Crusades.

The Apocalypse Box? I tried to be intrigued, but not enough to make me watch.
Gideon, sure, he was cute... but there was a litte too much of Sheridan's "screw you" attitude in him to get me emotionally involved... *pines for the likes of Sinclair*
Sarah Chambers... flat.
Matheson... two-dimensional (flat).
I just can't bring myself to watch the episodes again. After it aired, I left it a year. Recently I re-hired the tapes, hoping my opinion of such a great writer's work would change... and I was even more disappointed. I don't just want to like it because The Great Maker wrote it.

I'm sorry. It was a wonderful concept, with beautiful sets (if I had a favourite character in Crusade it would be the Excalibur), that had sadly lacking characters and intensley average storylines.

Need I even mention that totally dismal X-Files parody? That ranks as the worst hour of television I have ever endured, with the hope "It has to get better!" Infection... TKO and Grey 17 Is Missing were so much better than that. There was no point to the episode other than to have a childish dig at Star Trek and the Prime Directive at the end.

I don't want a more action oriented series. Science Fiction is as much about challenging you as it is about special effects.

In a full on action series, character and story can suffer. Plus, we will get tired of space battle and hand to hand combat after space battle and hand to hand combat scene. There is only so much you can do as a Director before the audience just goes - oh... ANOTHER fight scene! *yawn*

But... I honestly do not think that pure straight forward action is what JMS was referring to. I think he was more hinting that the new series (when we get it) will have a different pace, and a different tone to Babylon 5.

B5 was completely character and plot driven - but the undercurrent in character and plot was politics and that was such a wonderful relief. I bellieve that Rangers will be completely character and plot driven also, but with more action focused characters, and a swifter, more intense and cascading plot that builds with greater pace and less anticipation that B5. Babylon 5 built and built and built and then built somemore... then BANG! Perhaps Rangers, because of the younger cast, and the fact they are Anla'shok will have more Build/Bang, and then another Build/Bang, climax after climax as the effects of the First Ones leaving the Galaxy are dealt with, and the younger races fight for new technologies and to flex their new found 'superiority'.

That's how I interpreted his statement.

I really hope it makes sense... I just re-read it and thought... that's a little confusing! But it is the only way I can say it.

Thanks!

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Sheridan: "It's... damn inconvienient!"
Delenn: "The truth often is."

[This message has been edited by SataiDelenn (edited September 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by SataiDelenn (edited September 01, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by SataiDelenn (edited September 01, 2001).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I know I know, "Nothing is as it appears" is what JMS always says.

Any your right, I dont think he means its just a non stop action fest with no story. I have faith he isnt turning into the next George Lucas....yet.

Anyhow, I dont have that much fear....I again agree....less build up, more bang. For instance, in Severed Dreams, that had a huge build up....and then WHAM, what an episode.



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It has been my observation that if someone cannot say what they mean, they can truly never mean what they say.

 

[channe]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Ahh, but Severed Dreams. Half the reason that was such a damned good episode was all that build-up.

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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I think the problems with Crusade had alot to do with the interference of the 'suits'from TNT. JMS had his hands tied in trying to write and produce the story he wanted to tell with Crusade and even quit at one point. Hopefully with the support of the Sci-fi channel he can tell the story he wants to with The Legend of the Rangers if it becomes a series.

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spacey *BEEP BEEP*

 

[bakana]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

One thing we Don't need to worry about is JMS trying to appeal to the "lowest common denominator" type fan.

He has said over and over that he believes the Intelligent fan is in the Majority.

It's those people whose only contact with Fandom is the "look at the nuts, ma" sort of reporting that happens on the 11 O'Clock News who think All Fans are Dumb Whackos.

Those sort of "reports" are compiled by news crews who were specifically sent to Get that type of report. After all, a bunch of intelligent, well behaved, SANE fans make for very boring "News".

A guy who honestly believes he was somehow "Switched at birth" from his true home on Roumlus or the Klingon homeworld, now That's Entertainment.

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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[Kribu]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

As much as I loved the grand story and political intrigue of B5, I must admit I don't want another Babylon 5. It was a great, fascinating story, but that particular story is over. (The loose threads, at least some of them, can be wrapped up in books/possibly more short stories/a feature film.)

I don't think JMS would want to repeat himself and go for the same (or very similar) approach as he did with B5. As he has said himself, there are many other stories to be told in the B5 universe, and the Rangers story is one of those.

More action/adventure than B5 is IMHO not necessarily a bad thing. Of course, I grew up on action/adventure books - but one thing all my favourites (Alexandre Dumas, J. F. Cooper, Jules Verne especially) had in common was that they combined the action and adventures with very good, interesting, evolving characters who weren't just faultless action heroes.
This gives me reason to believe that it is quite possible to have more action and not necessarily sacrificing the "story" or do without fascinating characters.

Another thing that has been mentioned here and there is the worry about a looser arc in the potential series. Well, as long as there is a somewhat continuous story line - and as long as characters keep evolving, as long as their actions have consequences that come up in later episodes, that's just fine by me.

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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths

 

[Mondo Londo]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I don't mind if JMS goes for more action; but I do hope he puts a moratorium on all those B5 roundhouse kicks!

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[drakh]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SataiDelenn:
The first thirteen episodes [of B5] were better than Crusades.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is something I go back and forth on all the time. One thing I will say, is that I thought the two unproduced scripts (To the Ends of the Earth and End of the Line) were better than their B5 counterparts (Signs and Portents and Chrysalis). <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Gideon, sure, he was cute... but there was a litte too much of Sheridan's "screw you" attitude in him to get me emotionally involved...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>There was far more to Gideon than that... He was a stubborn, cheating, manipulative, obsessive SOB, and had his own set of morals that he felt were superior to anybody else's and had no problems breaking any rules he didn't like (as long as he thought he could get away with it). And most of all, I though he was just so amazingly fun to watch, and together with the moral ambiguity that made him my favourite B5 universe lead. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>I'm sorry. It was a wonderful concept, with beautiful sets (if I had a favourite character in Crusade it would be the Excalibur), that had sadly lacking characters<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You've already confessed to finding nearly half the regulars interesting. And I'd say episodes like Rules of the Game and Path of Sorrows did good jobs at character development. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>and intensley average storylines.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Depends on what you call avarge. Was And the Sky Full of Stars an average storyline? "Commander gets abducted and interrogated as a traitor" ain't all that spetacular in itself... <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Need I even mention that totally dismal X-Files parody? That ranks as the worst hour of television I have ever endured,<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Then you must not have watched much TV. I didn't like it much, largely because I found few of the jokes particularly funny, but I can think of far worse... Just to stick with Crusade there was War Zone for example, and Ruling From the Tomb. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>There was no point to the episode<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It established that Gideon plays hardball when someone tries to mess with him, and allowed jms to induldge the little X-Files fanboy inside of him. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>other than to have a childish dig at Star Trek and the Prime Directive at the end.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You mean that pretentious, ill-considered guidline that gets broken at least once a season with no reprecussions? Sorry, but the Prime Suggestion deserves everything it gets (because I'd say the current Trek writers are making it into a far bigger joke than jms ever could), and the conversation was perfectly in character.


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You are not entitled to your own opinion. You are only entitled to your own informed opinion.
-- Harlan Ellison qouting Gustave Flaubert

 

[channe]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Drakh, I agree completely!

Crusade had the potential to be such a great show. I especially loved the character of Captain Gideon, who was -such- an insolent ass that I wondered why he got command of such a great ship - and then saw him in action. I really, really would have liked to see where he was going. Gary Cole was perfect to play him - he's of the caliber of actor that's very, very good while making people go "who the hell is that?"

In short, Gideon was great. As was Eilerson. Galen intrigued me to no end, I wanted to find out what demons haunted Matheson, etc. Blast. We'll never know... we'll know the end of the Crusade storyline, but we'll never know what happens to them...

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Channe, Freelance Writer Extraordinaire and The Next JMS
--
B5 Synchroninity of the Day: I just found out that the new dorm I'm living in next year has been named Breen Hall.

 

[bakana]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Captain Gideon, who was -such- an insolent ass that I wondered why he got command of such a great ship <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, the generals who assigned him said it:

He'd do Anything, go Anywhere, to accomplish the goal.

He ain't polite, he ain't Nice, and they don't Like him very much. But they have no doubt he'll do their dirty work.

At least, that's what they Think. We've already seen that Gideon's moral scruples are much greater than the generals counted on.

But, Gideon is also sneaky enough not to get Caught being a "nice guy".



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

I liked Gideon because he was not like any other Commander I had seen in a sci-fi show. No doubt that is what JMS intended and maybe he is more a reflection of JMS own character then Sinclair or Sheridan. Sinclair was a diplomat and Sheridan a war hero and from the little we know of Gideon he was persecuted by the military in his early career and from that learned to watch his back and to trust very few people. IMH0

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spacey *BEEP BEEP*

 

[Great_Dying]

Re: Afraid of the \"more action\"....

Hm.. My dad and I found the X-files parody hilarious, oh well humor is subjective.
Each to his (or her) own.

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"No, they never end as tales," said Frodo. "But the people in them come, and go when their part's ended. Our part will end later - or sooner." - Frodo to Sam in "The Stairs of Cirith Ungol" The Two Towers, The Lord of The Rings - J.R.R. Tolkien