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After reading Casting Shadows...

D

Derian

Beyond the rim
I meant to post this some time ago, never got around to it.

After reading "Casting Shadows" I was reminded of a quote. I know it's been spoken a couple of times on B5 before, in party by Sinclair, and in fully by Sheridan (btw, it is incredibly cool, on so many levels, that JMS quotes very good, classic literature in B5).

I had also, however, had it commited to memory long before ever knowing what B5 was, as it has always been one of my 2 favourite quotes of all time.

Anyway, it seemed to me to pretty much sum up the technomages..

"Though we are not now that strength which, in old days, moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; one equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." -- Tennyson (Ulysses)

Oh, and if you're wondering what my other favourite quote is... Sam, I'm sure you'll appreciate this one....

"If personality is an unbroken series of successful gestures, then there was something gorgeous about him, some heightened sensetivity to the promises of life.... a romantic readiness such as I have never found in any other person, and which, it is not likely I shall ever find again." - F. Scott Fitzgerald (The Great Gatsby)

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"Expect me, when you see me."
 
Excellent quotes.
smile.gif


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Colleen L. Stanford
Gideon's Mine, all Mine
(he just doesn't know it yet, LOL)
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Anyway, it seemed to me to pretty much sum up the technomages..

"Though we are not now that strength which, in old days, moved earth and heaven, that which we are, we are; one equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time and fate, but strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield." -- Tennyson (Ulysses)
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


No, it couldn't describe the Technomages. The majority of them chose to Run & Hide rather than get involved in the Shadow War.

So, "strong in will to strive, to seek, to find and not to yield" doesn't cut it for them.

OTOH, the line "one equal temper of heroic hearts made weak by time" does fit, even though the complete passage doesn't.

It was very much Sinclair's favorite poem. As far as I remember, the only time Sheridan mentioned it was when he said something about having found a Copy of it lying on his desk when he arrived.

Since Sinclair had it Memorized, it leaves a minor mystery: It would appear to be a sort of "message" to his successor. But, when he was recalled to Earth, he didn't know he wasn't coming back. So, was he covering all the possibilities at the time, Just In Case, or did he have someone (Who??) leave it there? And why a Paper copy? Why not a Babcom message?




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
The one by Tenneson sums up what it is like to be human in time of battle especially during the Minbari war but after reading the book I thought the technomages ran away and hid like little children when they could have saved alot of lives with what they knew..

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Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"
 
Well, true, there is the running and hiding part. Maybe it more accurately describes what the technomages *should* be....

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"Expect me, when you see me."
 
Sheridan spoke the quotation from Tennyson at the very end of The Long Night and it fit the occasion extremely well.

I don't really see that it fits the technomages except "though we are now grown weak..."

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Such an EXCELLENT book. I did notice that some of the story in it was rewritten from what was shown on Crusade in "The Path of Sorrows." Small minor rewrites so it didn't really bother me.
smile.gif


One quote that I love that I think is perfect for the Technomages (I've seen it on a Technomage page, too) is one by Arthur C. Clarke: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."


And off-topic, but on the topic of Tennyson, another really enjoyable poem (that reminds me of B5) is The Charge of the Light Brigade.

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Ivanova is always right. I will listen to Ivanova. I will not ignore Ivanova's recommendations. Ivanova is God. And if this ever happens again, Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
 
Actually the last few days I have read this book Again for the gazillionth time I love it anyway a couple things about it I want to discuss.

Beware spoilers and nonsense rambling.

Razeel really intrigue's me I have this idea about her and her transiever the one that Burell paralyzed herself with.

I think somhow the shadows were talking to her through her transiever either talking back and fourth or manipulating her . I don't think she knew they were the shadows she was communicating with she may have thought it was just her tech.

It's like when she is in the training hall her performance is very eerie and very shadow esq...It seemed like the holo deamons she conjured were Shadow inspired. They were even screaming like a shadow vessel scream. And the colour of them semed the black of a shadow vessel that way it was described.

Her talking to her tech really freaks me out somhow she was communicating to the shadows wether subcounsciously or not i dunno.

I hope we hear more about this in teh second book.

Elizer's attack in the training hall and afterwards is shadow esq also with him cuping his mouth and letting out a sylable..It reminds of a shadow vessel's warcry.

Johnny was great fun computer program withe the head of John Sheridan and the body of a human body building champion..Fun teh way he refers to Burell and her daughter Isabelle
smile.gif


Somthing funny I found in this book anyway here is how it went;


"Have you done this before?" Isabelle asked.
"you're asking me now?" Galen jammed the thing in, shaking it up and down.
"It seems the question of the moment. Well?"
"No. He pulled it out, cursed, jammed it in again. "have you?"
"No. maybe we should have thought this out more"

Amusing scene But no they not having sex..Galen is trying to open a electronic door with a special keycard Alwyn gave him.

Hmmn my mind gone black I have written nothing here whihc I mean;t to say.

maybe i will remeber tonight I was writing allot down last few days about this book..getting ready for the next one . Allot of things that to me tie in the mage's with teh shadows more and more the past the obviously had somthing to do with the Shadows.

Some of the funniest thing happen in this book ..Romance adventure suspense.

Was sooo Sad when Burell died. Maybe one day somone will write a book about Burells life
smile.gif



Anotehr thing whihc intrigues me is why didn't Galen do much when he went to The well of forever I mean it was a quest for him and Isabelle and he wanted to go there before Isabelle died but when he went there all he did was dump her ash(from what we saw).
I just figured Galen would have taken some tech of a dead mage(In casting shadows it makes a big deal out of Burells and Isabelle's research and that Galen wanted to further it did he do as much as he wanted?) or tried to learn some stuff there history any knowledge about teh Drahk among otehr things.
Juts seems to me like he wasted his opportunity at The well of forever


Thx for reading sorry it is so unkept I have gone mad.


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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Anotehr thing whihc intrigues me is why didn't Galen do much when he went to The well of forever I mean it was a quest for him and Isabelle and he wanted to go there before Isabelle died but when he went there all he did was dump her ash(from what we saw). I just figured Galen would have taken some tech of a dead mage(In casting shadows it makes a big deal out of Burells and Isabelle's research and that Galen wanted to further it did he do as much as he wanted?) or tried to learn some stuff there history any knowledge about teh Drahk among otehr things. Juts seems to me like he wasted his opportunity at The well of forever
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I wouldn't say *dump*.
wink.gif
I mean, Galen did say a rather touching eulogy before he gave her final peace at the Well. I think it was more of Isabelle's quest than Galen's since Burell had piqued her interest in the place. He had made a promise to find it because of Isabelle, and chose to place her remains there in tribute.

The Well's great power isn't necessarily anything technological, but spiritual. Hyperspace is the ultimate mystical crossroad in the universe. If one is open to it, a deeply personal question will be answered -- as we saw with Dureena and in a comeuppance way with Max. But because Galen still hasn't forgiven himself for being alive, in my opinion, his question of "why" wasn't answered.

I thought the point was also made in the book that the implants were removed once a Techno-mage dies to prevent the tech from falling into the wrong hands. Most likely all that remains of the Techno-mages buried there is ash from the funeral pyre. The jewels, precious metals, and the gate builder's dream amount of Quantium 40 that Max discovered while aboard the Excalibur were probably left by other "enlightened" races, and I doubt Galen would have much use for those.

That's my $.25 worth anyway.
smile.gif

--KS

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No matter the blood, no matter the skin, no matter the world, no matter
the star... we are One. No matter the pain, no matter the darkness, no
matter the loss, no matter the fear... we are One.
 
The Well of Forever is a Mausoleum. Doing anything like Plundering it would be sacreligious. Even for someone like Galen who professes to have no faith in God, there are some things you just don't do. Desecrating a gravesite is one of them.

Max seems to have a blind spot for this, perhaps because of his profession. He is, when all is said and done, a professional graverobber.

Besides, only a Very advanced race could even Find the Well. Plundering the place just might set off all sorts of Burglar Alarms and assorted traps designed to stop just that activity.

Only a fool would mess with the place without stopping to consider the possible consequences.



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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
Since Sinclair had it Memorized, it leaves a minor mystery: It would appear to be a sort of "message" to his successor. But, when he was recalled to Earth, he didn't know he wasn't coming back. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

He didn't *know*, but he could probably guess. If nothing else, he knew he hadn't been the first (or even 6th ;> ) choice for the job - he was only there to please the Minbari for some, at the time of his appointment, unfathomable reason. And he *did* know the political situation at EarthDome was changing, and probably not for the better - this wasn't long after the assasination of President Santiago.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>And why a Paper copy? Why not a Babcom message? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's posisble Sinclair left his own copy behind, deliberately. Books still appear to be common. (Book Universe, anyone?
laugh.gif
) And a BabCom message would be easy to delete/alter. (Though I don't know why, in this case.)


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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> He didn't *know*, but he could probably guess. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The situation being what it was, he would most likely have thought that he was going to be asked for an In Person report about the Evidence Garibaldi had uncovered about the assasination.

I doubt that the squabbling about Who was to run Babylon 5 even entered his mind. He had much more important worries at the time.




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
sorry delete please
somhow multiple posts come out.

[This message has been edited by Deviot (edited June 16, 2001).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
Well, I wouldn't say *dump*.
wink.gif
I mean, Galen did say a rather touching eulogy before he gave her final peace at the Well. I think it was more of Isabelle's quest than Galen's since Burell had piqued her interest in the place. He had made a promise to find it because of Isabelle, and chose to place her remains there in tribute. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I didn't mean just dump
smile.gif
I know it was Burell and Isabelle's quest but before they died they both gave there infomation to Galen...And Galen later says that Isabelle's quest became his..guess cause it was interesting, mysterious, he wanted knowledge and because he loved her.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
The Well's great power isn't necessarily anything technological, but spiritual. Hyperspace is the ultimate mystical crossroad in the universe. If one is open to it, a deeply personal question will be answered -- as we saw with Dureena and in a comeuppance way with Max. But because Galen still hasn't forgiven himself for being alive, in my opinion, his question of "why" wasn't answered. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Yeah true but in the book it seems like Burell, Isabelle and Galen think there is more to the Well of forever then spiritual stuff.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>
I thought the point was also made in the book that the implants were removed once a Techno-mage dies to prevent the tech from falling into the wrong hands. Most likely all that remains of the Techno-mages buried there is ash from the funeral pyre. The jewels, precious metals, and the gate builder's dream amount of Quantium 40 that Max discovered while aboard the Excalibur were probably left by other "enlightened" races, and I doubt Galen would have much use for those.


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They beleived they would learn allot of stuff there technological stuff and history of the technomages maybe in ancient times maybe mage's weren't flayed when they died? (sinse if they were buried at the well no-one should be able to find them anyway to use there tech for ill)
I guess it is possible and likly that Galen learn't more about the well of forever bewteen casting shadows and the crusade ep well of forever. Which is why his attitude seemed to change about the well between Casting shadows and crusade ep well of forever.



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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> They beleived they would learn allot of stuff there technological stuff and history of the technomages maybe in ancient times maybe mage's weren't flayed when they died? (sinse if they were buried at the well no-one should be able to find them anyway to use there tech for ill) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't remember anything in the story that even Implied that Technomages had been buried at the Well prior to Galen's visit. In fact, I seem to remember a couple passages saying that Technomages were usually cremated and the ashes scattered on the planets they made their homes on.

Isobel was looking for the Well because it was a Legend, even to the Technomages. I doubt they'd have lost the directions for finding it if they were in the habit of going there for funerals. More likely, they'd heard about it from other, more advanced races. Maybe even been invited to attend an occasional funeral for one of these advanced friends but not been able to keep a "road map" showing how to find the place.




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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
There is another possibility, if Galen has already discovered the true source and nature of the tech before Crusade. Than it would have been just a matter of getting Isabelle to the Well.

When mages die they use 'magic' fire to burn them and their tech.

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Bus
"The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana."
 
Wierden the fist technomage, the one that started the technomages is said to be buried in the well..

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Emporer Turhan-"How will this end"
Kosh-"In fire"
 
This has been bugging me for the longest time, and I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who's noticed.

mad.gif
TIME, PEOPLE!! IT'S GETTING RIDICULOUS!!
mad.gif


We KNOW that the Excalibur's mission begins in 2267. And during that time, Gideon can't seem to decide just WHEN he and Galen first met. Sometimes, he says it's nine years ago, sometimes ten. That would put their meeting somewhere in 2257-2258, right?

Well, not according to the book! It takes place from November 2258 to New Year's Day, 2259, and from every indication, it doesn't look like the big migration that we saw in Crusade is going to happen for another few months.

I base that on the B5 episode when the Technomages were introduced. I always thought that Elric and the others with him were a diversion, to draw the Shadows and the Drakh to them, so that the main group could make their escape. So if both events (Galen and the main group, who ran into Gideon, and Elric and the diversionary group at B5) took place at the same time, that puts it well into 2259.

That's eight years difference. Not ten, not nine, eight. And I don't get it. jms is usually so dead-on about these things, that a goof like this just isn't like him.

Anyway. It might sound like a minor quibble, but somebody had to speak up about it ...

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Gideon can't seem to decide just WHEN he and Galen first met. Sometimes, he says it's nine years ago, sometimes ten. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Why is it surprizing that anyone should ba little Hazy about something that happened 9 or 10 years ago? I'd have the same problem without looking at a calendar. Most People remember the Sequence things happen in. The Day and Month tend to be of less importance. The YEAR is pretty far down the list.

I'd bet that, if Galen got married, he'd have trouble remembering _which_ anniversary it was too.

I do think he's smart enough to program his computer to nag him about it in time to buy a Gift, though.
wink.gif


------------------
Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
 
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