• The new B5TV.COM is here. We've replaced our 16 year old software with flashy new XenForo install. Registration is open again. Password resets will work again. More info here.

Allies of the Shadows

D

**DONOTDELETE**

Guest
aside from the Drahk, does anyone have any information about the Shadows allies amongst the younger races? The technomage trilogy reveals the Streib (?!?) to be allies of the Shadows, and the Wurt...
... is this the race that examined Garibaldi and Londo with the Drahk? Does anybody know?

------------------
 
The Streib were the ones who captured Sheridan and Ta'Lon in the episode "All Alone in the Night". The aliens who performed the surgery on the blips were referred to as "the surgeons" and then in the Techno-mage trilogy, they were referred to as "technicians". This would seem to indicate that they still have not been officially named. As for the Wurt, they mention them often in the trilogy, but I don't think we've ever seen them on the show.



------------------
"Draal gave Zathras list of things not to say.
This was one. No.... *tsk tsk*
No. Not good.
Not supposed to mention... "one", or... THE one.
Hmmmm.
You never heard that."
 
can anyone tell me what the Zarg was? and why did the Soldier of Darkness from season 2 look so very different yet so like a shadow? my theory is that they shadows were beings of energy, much like the vorlons, and that the physical representations we see of them and the difference between this soldier of darkess and the average shadow proves that what we see is only a shadow encounter suit. that would help explain the phasing in and out of visible sight typical of both

------------------
 
in Invoking Darkness, page 257, the Wurt are described as "scabrous skinned"

I dont remember ever seein anything that corresponds to that description...maybe the Goblyns from the B5 comics? the ones who chased Garibaldi and Keffer?

------------------
Never start a fight, but ALWAYS finish it.

" The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate for the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise to the occasion. We can not escape history. We will be remembered, in spite of ourselves. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor, to the last generation. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose our last best hope."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
So if the Streib are only "third class minions" they may only have received very basic technological advancements from the Shadows, similar to the way that the Shadows influenced and supported Pres. Clark's Earth alliance, only really giving technological support in return for small favors, but nothing on the level of what they gave the Taratimude.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think that's a reasonable explanation.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
I kind of wonder if the shadows had any influence on the Lumati, look at their philosophy, their ships (semi organic in appearance), and the timing of their alliance with Earth. the timing reminds one of the timing behind the Earth-Centauri non-aggression pact in season 3. both were under heavy influence or being aided by the shadows...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

We only ever saw the one ship, and it could have been crystaline not organic. I think they were a throw-away race, never to be mentioned again.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
Ahhh! Spoiler Protection!!! Gees. Cern! My eyes!

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>in Invoking Darkness, page 257, the Wurt are described as "scabrous skinned"</font></td></tr></table>

dark2.gif


defend.gif


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US). http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/

[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 23, 2001).]
 
Uhhh, spoiler boxes, people? I probably won't get around to reading the TM trilogy for a few weeks, and even if these aren't very big spoilers, you should let us decide.

Oh, and make sure you tell something about what you're spoiling, as others have said. Otherwise, we don't know if it's a spoiler pertaining to us or not.

------------------
Sheridan: Are you trying to cheer me up?
Ivanova: No sir, wouldn't dream of it.
Sheridan: Good, I hate being cheered up. It's depressing.
Ivanova: So in that case we're all going to die horrible, painful, lingering deaths.
Sheridan: Thank you, I feel so much better now.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
can anyone tell me what the Zarg was?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

From Voltayre's[1]:

Zarg
Habitat: Vazzarc Jungles

EcoNiche: Predatory Carnivore

Intelligence: Associative thought

Notes: One of the deadliest predators in the galaxy is the zarg. Found in the vicinity of the Euphrates Sector, the zarg's homeworld is quarantined. Several species on Vazzarc are deemed too deadly for transport. Travel on the planet's surface is highly hazardous to all sentient species. Despite the quarantine, big game hunters sometimes land on Vazzarc in hopes of bagging the ultimate predator. Smugglers sometimes brave a landing in hopes of collecting a few Zarg eggs for sale on the black market (for a hefty fee sometimes commanding upwards of 3 million credits apiece). The crime lord thir'nakk is thought to own several zargs and is said to feed them only with those who can't pay his generous loans.

These bipedal nightmares are the epitome of the hunter. Chitinous armor covers the zarg's blue-purple to black hide. Despite their size, zargs are silent hunters are are masters of stealth in their natural environment. Bladelike claws extend from their upper digits, able to shred open prey (and also making climbing difficult if not impossible). Rows of razor sharp teeth fill the zarg's powerful mouth. New teeth grow in to replace those that are lost. A nocturnal hunter, the zarg's nightvision is excellent, even when the planet's three moons are below the horizon.

Zargs are solitary hunters and shun other members of their species. They are vicious defenders of territory even to their own species. Only in Vazzarc's early spring do zargs seek each other out to mate. Mating is a painful process, especially for the female as the male holds her down with his fangs and claws. The male leaves soon after a successful mating. While the zarg may be the top predator of Vazzarc, several scavenger species present major danger to young zargs. The female will defend the eggs until they hatch. Once hatched, the baby zargs are able to hunt for themselves. Many hatchlings have been known to turn on their brethren for nourishment. Studies suggest that since the parents play no part in raising the young, that hunting is a learned experience.

Zargs raised solely in captivity are nothing like those raised in the wild. A zarg was once found to live in Babylon 5's Gray Sector. Raised in isolation and fed only what it could hunt in the artificial environment, the zarg was underdeveloped to the point of retardation.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
... and why did the Soldier of Darkness from season 2 look so very different yet so like a shadow?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because they have access to Shadowtech.

From Voltayre's[1]:

Shadow Warriors
(a.k.a. Soldier of Darkness)

PHYSIOLOGY: They have the same light distortion/phasing ability that the Shadows have. In material form, they stand at a towering 5-6 meters. Their diet consists of the internal organs of sentient beings. They appear to be able to control their metabolism and go for decades with little or no food. They are basically intelligent and patient. They are not invincible. If they can be tricked to become partially visible, they can be destroyed by multiple heavy PPG blasts at point blank.

PSI ABILITY:. When a Shadow Warrior consumes a part of a sentient, a psychic link is formed with that individual.

HISTORY: It is also known as a "Soldier of Darkness." This group of Shadow allies is known to have participated in the Shadow Uprising one-thousand years ago. The Markab and the Narn have records of these creatures.

GOVERNMENT: This being is a lower-level Shadow servant.

TECHNOLOGY: As allies of the Shadows, they have access to Ultratech-level artifacts, if their masters deem it necessary.

NOTES: The only human tale about these beings comes from an ex-gropo, Amis:

"We were an intelligence gathering unit, not set up for heavy combat. We'd heard the Minbari were setting up a command-and-control post, so we slipped onto a small moon before they finished the perimiter scans. We set up camp in old ruins of some kind. As far as we knew, it was a dead world.
It came in the night during a storm. We heard nothing, saw nothing. It came right through the walls -- like a hot wind. First man died, just meters from me. Never even screamed. We ran. We ran. For a second I thought I lost it. Then I saw it. It was standing in the middle of a ball of lightning. It looked like it had come straight from hell.
It kept me alive, as a snack. It becomes a part of you. Feeding on you. The lucky ones were the men who died on that moon. What it took from me I can never get back. When the rescue team showed up, I weighed 85 pounds... A part of me is still inside that thing. I can feel it..."

One such "monster" was brought on board Babylon 5 by an ancient scout vessel. It had reprogrammed the ship to head for Z'ha'dum


[1] How much of this is made up, and how much is true...who knows???


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US). http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/


[This message has been edited by KoshN (edited December 14, 2001).]
 
Well given the Shadow philosophy I don't necessarily think the races closely tied to the Shadows are the ones they have the most hope for. The Drakh seemingly take orders from the Shadows constantly in every day life. They, like the Shadows, are living a very orderly life in order to bring chaos to the rest of the universe. If the Shadows truly had confidence in the Drakh's ability to grow you would think that the Shadows would allow the Drakh more freedom to do so. Compare this to humans where a few key people are brought under control in order to stir things up but as a whole they are left to figure things out for themselves. This is how a race with potential should be treated according to Shadow philosopy. Instead the Drakh are largely kept under wraps during the calm period between wars when rebuilding from those wars would cause improvement.

The Shadows probably view themselves as already evolved enough or completely evolved so they feel they have no need to subject themselves to the stimulus of potentially devestating war. In fact they may think that they are making a great sacrifice on our behalf by becoming ordered themselves in order to bring chaos to us, although arrogance and hippocracy may be more likely.

Following this train of thought they could view stimying the Drakh as a sacrifice for the greater good of the younger races. Sure they have access to Shadow tech but they have not had to endure the struggle to achieve it. Leaving the Drakh as strong as they did, but allowing an easy destruction of Z'ha'dum may be the Shadows way of continuing their agenda a while longer even after they have left. The Drakh are left strong enough to throw the younger races into disaray but not so strong that they are likely to overwhelm the younger races.

The soldier of darness serves the purpose of chaos best in the early stages of the war when the younger races are not on the look out for shadow soldiers. When the war escalated they were probably pulled back, moth-balled.

------------------
"Crying isn't gonna get your dog back. Unless your tears smell like dog food. So you can sit here eating can after can of dog food until your tears smell like dog food or you can go out there and find your dog."-Homer in The Canine Mutiny
 
so if the "soldiers of darkness" are not shadows themselves and the Drahk are little more than drones to the shadows where does that leave us. the technician race was most likely used for helping younger races under the shadows influence understand their tech. perhaps the technicians are on the same level as the Vree or Centauri or Minbari in evolution, technology and understanding. the Drahk seem in Crusade far more powerful and more developed than simple pawns or drones, sheltered from the rest of the universe by their overbearing shadow masters. The Drahk in season 4 were on the run, dissorganized, but they re-organized quickly enough to implant the regent and infiltrate Centauri Prime, which itself was off balance but on guard after the shadows had been vanquished. by the time Crusade came around they had access to a planet killer and had enough understanding of it to test it on Daltron 7. they had a Mothership, as seen in "Each night i dream of home". this shows that the Drahk almost certainly had a base of operations somewhere and enough resources to consolodate their fleet. others have suggested that the Drahk built their fleet from Shadow tech after their masters left, but i doubt this, based on the design differences and the fact that they already had a functional fleet when Zha'ha'dum was destroyed, you just dont build up a fleet that fast. the Drahk had pre-existing resources and almost certainly a functional militairy...

------------------
 
...this is all evidence that the Drahk were not as sheltered and as dependent upon the Shadows as one may assume. in "Casting Shadows" Elric learns that the Drahk, Streib, and Wurt and possibly others had been arriving in great numbers in ships of previously unseen design. this implies a cooperation between these races and that they have other places to be and other things to do between wars. they most likely scatter between wars but in the Centauri Trilogy we learn of a Drahk homeworld. the Streib "homeworld" was visited in "all alone in the night". these races could not possibly have been so insignificant in light of the numbers of other races allied against the shadows. they must have played a more important role. perhaps we'll learn more when Crusade returns, or if there is a LOTR series.

------------------
 
I'm outta here until I've finished Invoking Darkness. Too many spoilers not protected.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
It seems to me that the Shadows treated all the other races as "servants". They could appear in public with fully corporeal bodies and do the dirty work while the Shadows remained in the background, like Morden. He does their bidding and they are always with him but nobody sees them.



------------------
I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>How do we know how long the Shadows have been cultivating the Drakh as allies? It could have happened after the last Shadow War.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
It certainly did!
Remember Londo's comment about the Drakh? Since the Centauri knew the Drakh before they went to work for the Shadows, and the Centauri archieved space travel after Valen's great war, the Drakh couldn't have been involved in the last Shadow War, and therefore not be recognized by the minbari...


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>When the war escalated they were probably pulled back, moth-balled.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Probably not. We just didn't see them used, since there was little opportunity for it.
But if you remember the flash-forward from "Babylon Squared" you'll notice the invisible creatures Garibaldi is defending B5 from sound suspiciously like Soldiers of Darkness. So they are still around, just waiting for their masters to send them into battle (it's not their fault that most of the fighting in this Shadow War was done in space, and they didn't really get a chance to mix it up with EA Gropos, Centauri Royal Guards or Narn Guerillias...)


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>they had a Mothership, as seen in "Each night i dream of home".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...and in "A Call to Arms" - the big ship behind the Drakh fleet, that fell pretty quickly to the Excalubur's and Victory's Neutron Lasers...

------------------
"ShadowScout"
Roman Alexander

"Go on, watch out for Shadows - we'll watch you right back!"

What do you want?
ShadowShips!
 
So why wouldnt the Mimbari know the Streib were allies of the shadows? of course this could explain the Mimbari's emediate aggression toward them in "All alone in the night." but they are never mentioned or seen again. I find it highly unlikely that a race as advanced as the streib (tractor beams, artificial gravity, jump engines and apparently organic technology) would only have one ship in their fleet. perhaps Delenn did know but since she had not yet revealed the shadows to Sheridan she did not feel it neccesarry to inform him of the Mimbari's deeper involvement with the Streib.

------------------
 
what still gets me is why the Mimbari didnt recognize the Drahk as allies of the shadows in season 4. the Mimbari are one of the older spacefaring races, the Drahk have been compared to the Mimbari in age and advancement. if the Mimbari were so active in the previous Shadow war, the Great war, why didnt they recognize the Drahk for what they were?

------------------
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
what still gets me is why the Mimbari didnt recognize the Drahk as allies of the shadows in season 4. the Mimbari are one of the older spacefaring races, the Drahk have been compared to the Mimbari in age and advancement. if the Mimbari were so active in the previous Shadow war, the Great war, why didnt they recognize the Drahk for what they were?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Argh! I can't ... stand ... it! It's Minbari. MiNbari. NNNNNNNNNN.

Oh, no, another one! Drakh
tongue.gif


------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
So why wouldnt the Mimbari know the Streib were allies of the shadows? of course this could explain the Mimbari's emediate aggression toward them in "All alone in the night." but they are never mentioned or seen again. I find it highly unlikely that a race as advanced as the streib (tractor beams, artificial gravity, jump engines and apparently organic technology) would only have one ship in their fleet. perhaps Delenn did know but since she had not yet revealed the shadows to Sheridan she did not feel it neccesarry to inform him of the Mimbari's deeper involvement with the Streib.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Streib strike me as sort of third class Shadow minions, and the Minbari can have a tendency to stick their heads in the sand.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Godkiller:
what still gets me is why the Mimbari didnt recognize the Drahk as allies of the shadows in season 4. the Mimbari are one of the older spacefaring races, the Drahk have been compared to the Mimbari in age and advancement. if the Mimbari were so active in the previous Shadow war, the Great war, why didnt they recognize the Drahk for what they were?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do we know how long the Shadows have been cultivating the Drakh as allies? It could have happened after the last Shadow War.

Also, maybe all of the info from the last Shadow War is not known to all Minbari, and some of the ones who are privy to the info., don't want to believe the stuff.

------------------
KoshN
-------------
Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
So if the Streib are only "third class minions" they may only have received very basic technological advancements from the Shadows, similar to the way that the Shadows influenced and supported Pres. Clark's Earth alliance, only really giving technological support in return for small favors, but nothing on the level of what they gave the Taratimude. I kind of wonder if the shadows had any influence on the Lumati, look at their philosophy, their ships (semi organic in appearance), and the timing of their alliance with Earth. the timing reminds one of the timing behind the Earth-Centauri non-aggression pact in season 3. both were under heavy influence or being aided by the shadows...

------------------
 

Latest posts

Members online

No members online now.
Back
Top