And the sky full of stars

[Demon]

And, according to South Pacific cannibals, and disaster survivors who have been reduced to cannibalism, Human flesh tastes like pork.

Taking this wildly off topic, I was once standing in a bakery with a fireman, waiting for a bacon sandwich, when he suddenly announced that people smell like bacon when they burn.

Too much information /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Kitaro]

Taking this wildly off topic, I was once standing in a bakery with a fireman, waiting for a bacon sandwich, when he suddenly announced that people smell like bacon when they burn.

Thank you for the disturbing thoughts that you just planted in my head.
Really, I needed that.

cheers

 

[hypatia]

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Bacon is pretty unhealthy for you, IIRC. Demon is doing you a favor. /forums/images/graemlins/devil.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Kitaro]

Pigs and Humans do not have a very high percentage of shared DNA. Pigs do happen to have heart structures that greatly resemble Human organs, and they are of about the right size,

Sorry Joe but that's just isn't enough. The size alone means nothing (no matter what she tells you /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ).
The DNA must have some resemblance or the body will attack it (unlike artificial valves which ask for high drug insertion into the blood the pig's ones need as much as that of a human valve).

But we do know that this is a science fiction show that actually has some respect for science. And we know enough about genetics to understand that you either cannot produce offspring or at least cannot produce fertile offspring, by mating two completely different species that both come from this planet. A 99.9% match gets you a mule. A 50% match won't even get you a pregnancy

The only reason we're having this discussion is because I believe in B5 having respect to real science.
Now, as I said before, I'm with you on the 100% matching DNA needed in order to have an offspring.
What I'm saying is simple: perhaps the transformation created a hybrid that has reproduction systems with compatibility of 100% and so are the supporting systems and yet this hybrid has some systems that are Minbari and even more, it has systems altogether different then both.

Biologically this is like bi-sexual creatures only here we have a bi-race creature.

He's simply aware that there are unknowns involved because the doesn't understand the transformation process, or what Minbari traits might still be expressed through the portion of Human DNA that is identical to Minbari DNA.

Or he could be having difficulties understanding the new biological system as a whole.
She isn't human, nor is she Minbar, it just doesn't add up.
What we have here is a new race that somehow can probably have offspring of both races.

Now, I've got a question here, does anyone here know how Minbari reproduce? Is it mentioned in the show?
If we knew more about this we could have more information to work with and to get to the right conclusion.


One more thing Joe – I do not apply ST logic here, part of the reason is that I don't like the show's explanation to anything. B5 is so great because it uses the law of physics as we know it and by that works inside a framework that challenges the story…well that one of the reason I can think of at least 50 more

---------
Love only love

 

[Kitaro]

Well I don't eat pigs so I could have lived without his help
But to all you pork eaters out there you just take a moment to reflect on what Demon just said.

 

[Joseph DeMartino]

The DNA must have some resemblance or the body will attack it

DNA has nothing (directly) to do with organ rejection. That is a matter of antibodies, not DNA. Chimps are genetically closer to Humans than pigs are, but pig valves are preferred for the reasons noted.

Delenn may well have retained some Minbari traits, as I've already noted, but her DNA has to be 100% Human - same number of chromosomes, same kind of base pairs, etc. or you don't get a pregnancy. Given that her DNA is Human, and that her tissues will replace themselves over time, she can't have many traits that aren't Human. The bone crest is OK, because there are Human diseases that could produce something similar, though not as elaborate. Her greater strength and stammina could be explained by a different quality in the muscle tissue. But I doubt she has any major organ systems that Humans don't have.

Re: Pork.

"Hmmm. Good soup. Is it Mike?" - Robert Heilein, Stranger in a Strange Land

"Bob. The Other White Meat." /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards,

Joe

 

[Oatley1]

Pork rules - healthy and lean!!!

And I have TV characters who will back up what I say!

HOMER: "Wait a minute wait a minute wait a minute. Lisa honey, are you saying you're 'never' going to eat any animal again? What about bacon?"
LISA: "No."
HOMER: "Ham?"
LISA: "No."
HOMER: "Pork chops?"
LISA: "Dad! Those all come from the same animal!"
HOMER: [Chuckles] "Yeah, right Lisa. A wonderful, magical animal."

If it's good enough for Homer, it's good enough for me. Woo hoo!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Kitaro]

Just spoke to a biologist and she has the answer.

First, yes I'm an idiot the pig things is not what I said, you where right here, sorry.

Now I asked this biologist this question and the first thing she asked was "Could it be that Delenn (I gave her the names, she didn’t watch B5) has some Human DNA in her?

Obviously she does, being Valan descendent.

Now, according to her two races CAN reproduce even if they DON'T have the same number of chromosomes as long as the chromosomes can align. This is why mules are born out of two creatures of different species, this new creature (the mule) can not reproduce but it can exist (this leads me to think that we don't know whether David can have an offspring or not so this can be the answer – David is a "mule").

Now to the more cool aspect of her answer:
My friend said that if Delenn has some Human DNA in her the chrysalis could have been some kind of a stimulator which, like in human teenagers, awakened the needed RNA sections which in turn made the changes in Delenn.
These changes DID NOT made Delenn human, it did however made her compatible to human GENOM making her able to carry the new offspring.
This, by the way, doe's NOT make her a hybrid at all, she is still Minbar only one with specific encoding of a human.

This happens in nature when Wolves and Dogs mate, their offspring is capable of bringing new offspring out of wolves, dogs OR other of their own kind.

We must remember, she said, that the DNA is the whole potential, and in any DNA segment we can find all the information needed to create a full human BUT still we have fingers and toes and eyes, all created from the SAME DNA but each part different, this is made by the RNA.

I love this; it makes sense and shows us that B5 IS totally based on REAL science FACTS.

Also I must add that I love this forum, I found only one like this one where I can have an intelligent discussions with other people..

Hope this clear up everything to all of us

 

[Kitaro]

This is going ooooof topic but:
I love homer's dad... he is the BEST..I have so many quotes...but this is non the place.

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[KoshFan]

I confess that sci-fi handwaving makes me annoyed, but we must remember that B5 respects science but occasionally transcends it. After all, where's the scientific explanation for restoring Sheridan to life? Where's the scientific explanation for artificial gravity? The show has its foundations in science (and firm they are) but also shows us that what seems like magic to us can be produced by further intellect and knowledge.

Having said that, I just had a scientific thought about all this. Gametes (sperm and eggs) only have 23 chromosomes and therefore are vulnerable to attack by the immune system. IIRC, the body protects them from its own immune system with special cells called nurse cells. Maybe part of the chrysalis transformation was turnin Delenn's body into a giant nurse cell, something that didn't follow the ordinary rules.

 

[Kitaro]

Well, the explanation I gave solves the problems.
Why go and search for a super-science explenation when our science is giving the answers?