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Angel end ep [spoilers! no spoiler warnings = ban]
- Thread starter PsionTen
- Start date
The Juche Warrior
Regular
Re: Angel
You ain't kidding. Holy Shit, I loved that. "I don't know about you, but I want to be the one to slay the dragon." I think that was one of, if not the best finale ever.
You ain't kidding. Holy Shit, I loved that. "I don't know about you, but I want to be the one to slay the dragon." I think that was one of, if not the best finale ever.
Re: Angel
How about Gunn's line: "You take the 30,000 on the left."
I absolutely loved that ending, because "fighting the good fight" -- so to speak -- was always the theme of Angel. Hell, at the end of Season 2, they say point-blank that you can never really defeat evil and that winning wasn't even the point ... it was the struggle, the fight that really mattered. And that's exactly how Angel ended.
How about Gunn's line: "You take the 30,000 on the left."
I absolutely loved that ending, because "fighting the good fight" -- so to speak -- was always the theme of Angel. Hell, at the end of Season 2, they say point-blank that you can never really defeat evil and that winning wasn't even the point ... it was the struggle, the fight that really mattered. And that's exactly how Angel ended.
The Juche Warrior
Regular
Re: Angel
Exactly. Redemption is a long time coming, if ever. So you keep fighting.
I also liked "Can I deny you three times?"
Exactly. Redemption is a long time coming, if ever. So you keep fighting.
I also liked "Can I deny you three times?"
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: Angel
Posting my thoughts here that I've already posted elsewhere:
----------
Well, I got to "see" the episode tonight finally. Not having a WB network around where I live really sucks, but I am thankful to one of the local NBC stations that has worked a deal to show the more popular WB shows late at night. And what I mean by "see" is that my luck or karma or whatever knows no ends; about a third of the episode was so fuzzy for some damned reason unknown that it was pretty difficult to hear the dialogue and to see the show. It interfered the most at the end, of course. <sigh>
I was unspoiled, but I figured it would be Wesley that died. It just made sense for it to be him, and if I had been writing it, I would have killed him too. His death closed the circle his character has been taking since Fred's death. He held her while she died, and now he was held by her when he died. With the advent of Illyria, Wesley stepped up and took it upon him to guide Illyria in what it was like for their world now as best he could. In that light, his dying fighting evil was the final thing he could teach Illyria. Of the characters available to be killed, Wesley's death had the most potential to be heartbreaking, and with that being frequently what both Buffy and Angel have been about, it just fits.
I wasn't anticipating Harmony to betray Angel to Hamilton, so that was a nice surprise. Hamilton thinking that Angel wouldn't be able to kill the Archduke was great; I had totally forgotten about Angel's having smacked away the Archduke's drinkboy, so it was a nice little set up and finish.
Gunn's fighting the vampires and axe in the head of the Senator was solid. And I was happily surprised to see Anne brought in for one last scene. I've wondered what her character was up to lately, so it was nice to see her again.
Lorne's decision to walk away if he survived was heartbreaking for me since I love his character, but it totally fits for him. His walking away in his last scene felt reminiscent of his walking away from the non-audience in that season four episode when Cordy gets her memory back. It was all very melancholic. I liked how Lorne, being not a fighter, was sent with Lindsey to kill him once he got done doing the heavy lifting.
I loved that we got Spike drinking a whole lot, leading us to think that he's going to get himself into a bar brawl for his "last day," but it turned out that he was getting liquored up in order to have confidence to actually give a reading/recitation of his poetry to an audience.
And finally, I loved that Angel's key to fighting and defeating Hamilton was written to be Angel's drinking Hamilton's blood. It was completely fitting for the character, being that Angel's a vampire and all that.
I thought I might would dislike Connor coming back yet again, but I didn't. It was nice.
And then we get the end. I liked it; it fit. Sure, it didn't exactly "end," but that's the point the show's been making time and again: fighting evil doesn't ever end. The seventh season of Buffy even touched on this theme in that she and the Scoobies and the slayers would never be able to kill The First. Same here, Angel and the Fang Gang's fight against evil will never end.
Posting my thoughts here that I've already posted elsewhere:
----------
Well, I got to "see" the episode tonight finally. Not having a WB network around where I live really sucks, but I am thankful to one of the local NBC stations that has worked a deal to show the more popular WB shows late at night. And what I mean by "see" is that my luck or karma or whatever knows no ends; about a third of the episode was so fuzzy for some damned reason unknown that it was pretty difficult to hear the dialogue and to see the show. It interfered the most at the end, of course. <sigh>
I was unspoiled, but I figured it would be Wesley that died. It just made sense for it to be him, and if I had been writing it, I would have killed him too. His death closed the circle his character has been taking since Fred's death. He held her while she died, and now he was held by her when he died. With the advent of Illyria, Wesley stepped up and took it upon him to guide Illyria in what it was like for their world now as best he could. In that light, his dying fighting evil was the final thing he could teach Illyria. Of the characters available to be killed, Wesley's death had the most potential to be heartbreaking, and with that being frequently what both Buffy and Angel have been about, it just fits.
I wasn't anticipating Harmony to betray Angel to Hamilton, so that was a nice surprise. Hamilton thinking that Angel wouldn't be able to kill the Archduke was great; I had totally forgotten about Angel's having smacked away the Archduke's drinkboy, so it was a nice little set up and finish.
Gunn's fighting the vampires and axe in the head of the Senator was solid. And I was happily surprised to see Anne brought in for one last scene. I've wondered what her character was up to lately, so it was nice to see her again.
Lorne's decision to walk away if he survived was heartbreaking for me since I love his character, but it totally fits for him. His walking away in his last scene felt reminiscent of his walking away from the non-audience in that season four episode when Cordy gets her memory back. It was all very melancholic. I liked how Lorne, being not a fighter, was sent with Lindsey to kill him once he got done doing the heavy lifting.
I loved that we got Spike drinking a whole lot, leading us to think that he's going to get himself into a bar brawl for his "last day," but it turned out that he was getting liquored up in order to have confidence to actually give a reading/recitation of his poetry to an audience.
And finally, I loved that Angel's key to fighting and defeating Hamilton was written to be Angel's drinking Hamilton's blood. It was completely fitting for the character, being that Angel's a vampire and all that.
I thought I might would dislike Connor coming back yet again, but I didn't. It was nice.And then we get the end. I liked it; it fit. Sure, it didn't exactly "end," but that's the point the show's been making time and again: fighting evil doesn't ever end. The seventh season of Buffy even touched on this theme in that she and the Scoobies and the slayers would never be able to kill The First. Same here, Angel and the Fang Gang's fight against evil will never end.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: Angel
I wasn't aware that a thread that was obviously for the discussion of the final episode required spoiler warnings; I would figure people would have enough intelligence that if they wanted to avoid spoiling themselves regarding the episode, they'd say away from a thread about that episode. I know I certainly had enough intelligence to do just that with every thread I've seen regarding an episode I haven't seen. I just don't read that thread. But then, I forget that too many people don't have enough foresight to realize a thread about an episode of a show will actually contain content about that episode. Please excuse me for forgetting how stupid the general public is.
I wasn't aware that a thread that was obviously for the discussion of the final episode required spoiler warnings; I would figure people would have enough intelligence that if they wanted to avoid spoiling themselves regarding the episode, they'd say away from a thread about that episode. I know I certainly had enough intelligence to do just that with every thread I've seen regarding an episode I haven't seen. I just don't read that thread. But then, I forget that too many people don't have enough foresight to realize a thread about an episode of a show will actually contain content about that episode. Please excuse me for forgetting how stupid the general public is.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: Angel
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for the level of snarkiness in my above post before someone yells at me (which they'll do; they always do), though I'm going to leave the post unedited because it does say what I was thinking.
Knowing that the finale of Angel came on for most people (not me) on Wednesday night, when I came online later that night after the finale aired on WB and saw a new "Angel" thread, it seemed rather obvious that that thread would be about the finale since the finale had finish airing shortly before the thread was created. So, what did I do? I waited to visit that thread until after I got to see the episode late last night. It was the intelligent thing for me to do considering the timing of the making of the thread. If I could do it, I know others could figure it out and assumed they'd do it too. It's difficult to remember that people will charge into a thread without any forethought to it's content.
I'm going to go ahead and apologize for the level of snarkiness in my above post before someone yells at me (which they'll do; they always do), though I'm going to leave the post unedited because it does say what I was thinking.
Knowing that the finale of Angel came on for most people (not me) on Wednesday night, when I came online later that night after the finale aired on WB and saw a new "Angel" thread, it seemed rather obvious that that thread would be about the finale since the finale had finish airing shortly before the thread was created. So, what did I do? I waited to visit that thread until after I got to see the episode late last night. It was the intelligent thing for me to do considering the timing of the making of the thread. If I could do it, I know others could figure it out and assumed they'd do it too. It's difficult to remember that people will charge into a thread without any forethought to it's content.
Re: Angel
I feel the spoiler warning would have been better to start off with, but PT's post didn't spoil. I stopped reading in the second post, because then I realised discussion was going to the episode more specifically (and I hadn't seen it). Vacantlook, at most you could say someone should have posted a spoiler before you. But that doesn't mean it would hav hurt you to post one.
There are many assumptions in your posts. That someone coming to the forum knows the thread is about the final episode ("Angel" was the sole title of the topic). Asumption that people even know the end episode has aired... and assumption that even if they knew the final episode was airing, they'd expect spoilers (I came in before to the thread before I saw the final episode, and felt PT's post was a sufficent way to let me know what he thought about the ep without spoiling it).
Your logic is that it's aired in America, so thus everyone in the whole wide world when should know this, and when they see an Angel post shouldn't go into it. I'd like to remind you, and everyone, that for US shows the policy is that spoiler warnings are needed about epiodes in their current or previous season. Outside of this time, spoiler warnings are not discouraged if the thread is particularly spoilerish (this is open to the individual's judgement).
I feel the spoiler warning would have been better to start off with, but PT's post didn't spoil. I stopped reading in the second post, because then I realised discussion was going to the episode more specifically (and I hadn't seen it). Vacantlook, at most you could say someone should have posted a spoiler before you. But that doesn't mean it would hav hurt you to post one.
There are many assumptions in your posts. That someone coming to the forum knows the thread is about the final episode ("Angel" was the sole title of the topic). Asumption that people even know the end episode has aired... and assumption that even if they knew the final episode was airing, they'd expect spoilers (I came in before to the thread before I saw the final episode, and felt PT's post was a sufficent way to let me know what he thought about the ep without spoiling it).
Your logic is that it's aired in America, so thus everyone in the whole wide world when should know this, and when they see an Angel post shouldn't go into it. I'd like to remind you, and everyone, that for US shows the policy is that spoiler warnings are needed about epiodes in their current or previous season. Outside of this time, spoiler warnings are not discouraged if the thread is particularly spoilerish (this is open to the individual's judgement).
Re: Angel
Sorry, my bad. I should have put something in the title about spoilers (or that it concerned the series ender), but I was going for more of a reflective thing about the series in general (or I was so sleepy I didn't know any better) . I'll be more responsible in the future.
Sorry, my bad. I should have put something in the title about spoilers (or that it concerned the series ender), but I was going for more of a reflective thing about the series in general (or I was so sleepy I didn't know any better) . I'll be more responsible in the future.
Re: Angel
I'm not yelling now, and I wasn't yelling then. Just reminding you of some of the basic courtesies of posting that level of detail. I'm pleased to see that you toned down the sarcasm.
I think Antony has covered this issue. 'Most people' do not live in the US Surprisingly enough, there are a whole load of us who read and post on this board who live in other countries. And therefore what was obvious to you in the light of the knowledge you had about US TV scheduling would not have been obvious to anyone outside the US.
Perhaps the intelligent thing to do would have been to remember that this board is not run from the US, or visited solely by residents of the US.
You know what they say about the word 'assume'
In the UK even the satellite channels are only half way through the last series. It hasn't even started showing on terrestrial channels as yet.
Previous posters had made general comments about single lines, and alluded to events without giving specifics of what went on in the episode. In my view, that's fine, as the references were sufficiently vague. The detail you went into took the discussion to a completely different level.
In general, I always think that if in doubt, post a spoiler
I'm not yelling now, and I wasn't yelling then. Just reminding you of some of the basic courtesies of posting that level of detail. I'm pleased to see that you toned down the sarcasm.
I think Antony has covered this issue. 'Most people' do not live in the US
Surprisingly enough, there are a whole load of us who read and post on this board who live in other countries. And therefore what was obvious to you in the light of the knowledge you had about US TV scheduling would not have been obvious to anyone outside the US.Perhaps the intelligent thing to do would have been to remember that this board is not run from the US, or visited solely by residents of the US.
You know what they say about the word 'assume'
In the UK even the satellite channels are only half way through the last series. It hasn't even started showing on terrestrial channels as yet.
Previous posters had made general comments about single lines, and alluded to events without giving specifics of what went on in the episode. In my view, that's fine, as the references were sufficiently vague. The detail you went into took the discussion to a completely different level.
In general, I always think that if in doubt, post a spoiler
Glacophane
Regular
Re: Angel
I just caught the last episode this evening. Just finished watching it a few mintues ago and thought now I could finally read this thread. I really liked the episode. A much better finale then Buffy. Of course I want to know what happens now. I'm also a bit sad because next season there will not be a Joss Whedon show on television (except reruns of Buffy and Angel) for me to watch.
I just caught the last episode this evening. Just finished watching it a few mintues ago and thought now I could finally read this thread. I really liked the episode. A much better finale then Buffy. Of course I want to know what happens now. I'm also a bit sad because next season there will not be a Joss Whedon show on television (except reruns of Buffy and Angel) for me to watch.
Re: Angel
My thoughts... if I can make them up.
A real "so what?" feeling about it all. But then I felt this with Buffy. Both shows just got so crap in their end years, and then ewnt out with an ending that I just couldn't care about. Kill them all, go on!
Buffy and Angel were good until Joss lost interest. And I think he really did, as much as he claims he didn't. Firefly was his baby. I think Firefly was rather dull. And because it was axed, I felt I was being punished for Buffy and Angel surviving when I was watching them. Just seeing a Firefly character each week come over and beat up the Buffy/Angel characters felt like it was some message some how... just odd.
Quite honestly, I don't want new Joss TV if it's like what's been dished out of late. He needs to go away, relax, do whatever he needs to do... and come back and give us TV that is good again. When was the last time we had an episode like The Body, Hush or Earshot (to name just three legendary episodes). What we get from Joss now is smut.
My thoughts... if I can make them up.
A real "so what?" feeling about it all. But then I felt this with Buffy. Both shows just got so crap in their end years, and then ewnt out with an ending that I just couldn't care about. Kill them all, go on!
Buffy and Angel were good until Joss lost interest. And I think he really did, as much as he claims he didn't. Firefly was his baby. I think Firefly was rather dull. And because it was axed, I felt I was being punished for Buffy and Angel surviving when I was watching them. Just seeing a Firefly character each week come over and beat up the Buffy/Angel characters felt like it was some message some how... just odd.
Quite honestly, I don't want new Joss TV if it's like what's been dished out of late. He needs to go away, relax, do whatever he needs to do... and come back and give us TV that is good again. When was the last time we had an episode like The Body, Hush or Earshot (to name just three legendary episodes). What we get from Joss now is smut.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Re: Angel
What you describe Ant feels like the same thing that's happened with Alias this season. JJ Abrams got busy trying to make new shows (Lost and I think I heard rumor of another one), and the third seasons of Alias shows his split focus.
What you describe Ant feels like the same thing that's happened with Alias this season. JJ Abrams got busy trying to make new shows (Lost and I think I heard rumor of another one), and the third seasons of Alias shows his split focus.
Glacophane
Regular
Re: Angel
I have to disagree somewhat. Yes the last few years of Buffy (right after her second death) I just didnt really care about the show any more. It was getting old and tiring and feeling a little forced each week. Gone was the magic, the humor and the innocence of the first few seasons. Angel kind of went that same route as well but for some reason reason found myself enjoying it this last season. Not all of the eps mind you, but a few. I dont think we will have to worry about any return to the Angel-verse for awhile. As you mentioned Ant, I believe Joss is a little tired of it now with the Firefly movie and his writing for X-men (the comic, not the movie). And I believe in a TV guide interview DB said he hated reunion movies.
Alias is a show I havent watched yet, but I'm thinking of adding to my netflix soon and watching the first season. I have entirely missed every episode of 24 this season and cant wait until season 3 hits DVD.
I have to disagree somewhat. Yes the last few years of Buffy (right after her second death) I just didnt really care about the show any more. It was getting old and tiring and feeling a little forced each week. Gone was the magic, the humor and the innocence of the first few seasons. Angel kind of went that same route as well but for some reason reason found myself enjoying it this last season. Not all of the eps mind you, but a few. I dont think we will have to worry about any return to the Angel-verse for awhile. As you mentioned Ant, I believe Joss is a little tired of it now with the Firefly movie and his writing for X-men (the comic, not the movie). And I believe in a TV guide interview DB said he hated reunion movies.
Alias is a show I havent watched yet, but I'm thinking of adding to my netflix soon and watching the first season. I have entirely missed every episode of 24 this season and cant wait until season 3 hits DVD.
Re: Angel
Really? Wow.
Joss said he felt Angel had hit its stride in season five... I honestly felt no one would agree with him on that!
To clarify a bit on Angel season five, it did have some good invidual episodes. But it's when I looked back I realised nothing had really happened.
I also think Angel lacked David Greenwalt of late.
Really? Wow.
Joss said he felt Angel had hit its stride in season five... I honestly felt no one would agree with him on that!
To clarify a bit on Angel season five, it did have some good invidual episodes. But it's when I looked back I realised nothing had really happened.
I also think Angel lacked David Greenwalt of late.
