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Anyone else apprehensive about "The Hand"? **SPOILERS**
- Thread starter Chris Springob
- Start date
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
How do you know that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Because Harlan said so in an interview found in issue 2.3 and 2.4 of the Babylon 5 Magazine.
[This message has been edited by drakh (edited August 01, 2001).]
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
How do you know that?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Because Harlan said so in an interview found in issue 2.3 and 2.4 of the Babylon 5 Magazine.
[This message has been edited by drakh (edited August 01, 2001).]
Chris Springob
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Either way, it's a bit silly to speculate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't say that I agree with that sentiment. Even though JMS has a good track record and a history of surprising us, I still think it can be useful to say "X sounds like a good idea" or "Y sounds like a bad idea". Also, I'm not saying that this superrace couldn't be possibly be presented in a way that I like, just that it's not the sort of idea that inspires me with confidence.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> If a series that I thought would've totally sucked would actually have been great, it is therefore reasonable to assume that another one would be great as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No one's saying that Rangers will be bad, just that this one aspect of it doesn't sound very encouraging. I was wondering if this news that there would be super-powerful aliens would be something that would be highly controversial among the fans, sort of like the Darth Sidious-like figure who will apparently be in Enterprise. (Those of you who have been following the Enterprise news know what I'm talking about.) But based on the posts to this thread so far, I guess most people don't have strong feelings about it one way or the other.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Either way, it's a bit silly to speculate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't say that I agree with that sentiment. Even though JMS has a good track record and a history of surprising us, I still think it can be useful to say "X sounds like a good idea" or "Y sounds like a bad idea". Also, I'm not saying that this superrace couldn't be possibly be presented in a way that I like, just that it's not the sort of idea that inspires me with confidence.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> If a series that I thought would've totally sucked would actually have been great, it is therefore reasonable to assume that another one would be great as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No one's saying that Rangers will be bad, just that this one aspect of it doesn't sound very encouraging. I was wondering if this news that there would be super-powerful aliens would be something that would be highly controversial among the fans, sort of like the Darth Sidious-like figure who will apparently be in Enterprise. (Those of you who have been following the Enterprise news know what I'm talking about.) But based on the posts to this thread so far, I guess most people don't have strong feelings about it one way or the other.
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GKarsEye
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
Chris I understand what you meant, I was just addressing your question. You asked if "the Hand" makes us wary. I was drawing a parallel between Crusade and Rangers. The idea of ship flying around looking for a cure turned me off more than Byron singing naked. Come to think of it, when I first heard about Babylon 5 being a "United Nations in space," I vowed never to watch it. My point is that JMS' style is apparently to create a stupid premise for a show than make it about something better. If "the Hand" makes you wary, perhaps it is good news.
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Chris I understand what you meant, I was just addressing your question. You asked if "the Hand" makes us wary. I was drawing a parallel between Crusade and Rangers. The idea of ship flying around looking for a cure turned me off more than Byron singing naked. Come to think of it, when I first heard about Babylon 5 being a "United Nations in space," I vowed never to watch it. My point is that JMS' style is apparently to create a stupid premise for a show than make it about something better. If "the Hand" makes you wary, perhaps it is good news.
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
You might remember that JMS isn't the person who came up with the blurbs like "UN in Space". Those were done by Warner Publicity types. Who, to judge by their track record, never actually Watched the show.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
You might remember that JMS isn't the person who came up with the blurbs like "UN in Space". Those were done by Warner Publicity types. Who, to judge by their track record, never actually Watched the show.
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Yes, I like cats too.
Shall we exchange Recipes?
GKarsEye
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
You might remember that JMS isn't the person who came up with the blurbs like "UN in Space". Those were done by Warner Publicity types. Who, to judge by their track record, never actually Watched the show.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just like the "Hand" thing wasn't said by JMS. That's exactly why you can't get worked over these things.
I can't believe I've become the optimistic defender. Damnit, I'm supposed to be Cynical!
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
You might remember that JMS isn't the person who came up with the blurbs like "UN in Space". Those were done by Warner Publicity types. Who, to judge by their track record, never actually Watched the show.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Just like the "Hand" thing wasn't said by JMS. That's exactly why you can't get worked over these things.
I can't believe I've become the optimistic defender. Damnit, I'm supposed to be Cynical!
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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
i wouldent be to worried JMS knows what hes doing
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G'kar " No dictator no invader can hold an imprissioned population by force of arms .forever.. there is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom...against that power goverments and tirants and armies Cannot stand... The centuri learned this lession once ... We will teach it to them again... though it take a thousand years... We will be Free!"
i wouldent be to worried JMS knows what hes doing
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G'kar " No dictator no invader can hold an imprissioned population by force of arms .forever.. there is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom...against that power goverments and tirants and armies Cannot stand... The centuri learned this lession once ... We will teach it to them again... though it take a thousand years... We will be Free!"
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Springob:
This post deals with the AICN review of "To Live and Die in Starlight". Rather than use spoiler boxes on every single post in this thread, why don't we just agree right now that anyone who isn't interested in learning about the spoilers from that review should stopping reading this now and proceed no further?
**SPOILERS AHEAD**
The one part of the review that left me a little concerned was this: "This "pyramid" is a gateway to another "dimention" where the new race called "The Hand" resides. It is said by one of the characters later (I'm not giving everything away) that this race was banished billions of years ago as is so powerfull that they make the Shadows look like "insects"."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Does this sound a lot like 'Thirdspace' to anyone else?
WarpPig
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chris Springob:
This post deals with the AICN review of "To Live and Die in Starlight". Rather than use spoiler boxes on every single post in this thread, why don't we just agree right now that anyone who isn't interested in learning about the spoilers from that review should stopping reading this now and proceed no further?
**SPOILERS AHEAD**
The one part of the review that left me a little concerned was this: "This "pyramid" is a gateway to another "dimention" where the new race called "The Hand" resides. It is said by one of the characters later (I'm not giving everything away) that this race was banished billions of years ago as is so powerfull that they make the Shadows look like "insects"."
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Does this sound a lot like 'Thirdspace' to anyone else?
WarpPig
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Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
As far as a "character" already named the Hand, it's also possible that somone is remembering that Harlan was, at one point, supposed to write a B5 episode that would have been the Sequel to his story "the Demon With The Glass Hand". Unfortunately, Harlan was unable to write the story.
I believe it was Harlan's Heart Attack that messed up the writing schedule. By the time he was out of the hospital, the time slot for the story had passed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, this is being filmed as a movie RIGHT NOW - but AFAIK, not in the B5 universe
WarpPig
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by bakana:
As far as a "character" already named the Hand, it's also possible that somone is remembering that Harlan was, at one point, supposed to write a B5 episode that would have been the Sequel to his story "the Demon With The Glass Hand". Unfortunately, Harlan was unable to write the story.
I believe it was Harlan's Heart Attack that messed up the writing schedule. By the time he was out of the hospital, the time slot for the story had passed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Actually, this is being filmed as a movie RIGHT NOW - but AFAIK, not in the B5 universe
WarpPig
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Chris Springob
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> i wouldent be to worried JMS knows what hes doing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Aaaaahhhhhhh! (See my post from August 1, 6:13pm.)
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> i wouldent be to worried JMS knows what hes doing <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Aaaaahhhhhhh! (See my post from August 1, 6:13pm.)
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D
**DONOTDELETE**
Guest
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
Perhaps the role of the First Ones was broader than the younger races realized. Sure, the Vorlons and the Shadows were supposed to be shepherds for the younger races, but if an older, more powerful race from another galaxy, dimension, whatever decided it was going to take over, I'll bet that the First Ones would have stuck together to hold them off. Maybe that's why some of the other First Ones stuck around. Maybe they were lurking in hyperspace as reinforcements - just in case.
Anyway, with the First Ones gone, the job of defending our galaxy from hostile outsiders would fall squarely on the shoulders of the younger races (esp. the ISA and the Rangers).
Maybe that's the premise of this new show...the young races are on top of the pile, but the question is... can they stay on top?
Just some fun speculation. Just because it may have been done before in Thirdspace doesn't mean JMS can't put a new spin on it and make it great. He's good at that y'know.
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You are finite. Zathras is finite. This...is wrong tool.
jtk724@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Zathras (edited August 10, 2001).]
Perhaps the role of the First Ones was broader than the younger races realized. Sure, the Vorlons and the Shadows were supposed to be shepherds for the younger races, but if an older, more powerful race from another galaxy, dimension, whatever decided it was going to take over, I'll bet that the First Ones would have stuck together to hold them off. Maybe that's why some of the other First Ones stuck around. Maybe they were lurking in hyperspace as reinforcements - just in case.
Anyway, with the First Ones gone, the job of defending our galaxy from hostile outsiders would fall squarely on the shoulders of the younger races (esp. the ISA and the Rangers).
Maybe that's the premise of this new show...the young races are on top of the pile, but the question is... can they stay on top?
Just some fun speculation. Just because it may have been done before in Thirdspace doesn't mean JMS can't put a new spin on it and make it great. He's good at that y'know.
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You are finite. Zathras is finite. This...is wrong tool.
jtk724@hotmail.com
[This message has been edited by Zathras (edited August 10, 2001).]
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
The universe has been here for billions of years. BILLIONS! God knows how many zeros go on that f*cker!
The Vorlons were claiming to be millions of years old. Lorien claimed to be the first creature in existence. Says who? "The Hand" as they were called, may have been a race that lived, thrived, and left this universe long before Z'ha'dum's molten surface cooled into rock. Hell this could happen thoasands of times over. The question to ask would be why the hell would they want back in? If they were this powerful group of aliens that made the Shadows look like "insects" what the hell would they care about a bunch of squabbling amoeba like us?
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something witty and clever.. so laugh dammit!
The universe has been here for billions of years. BILLIONS! God knows how many zeros go on that f*cker!
The Vorlons were claiming to be millions of years old. Lorien claimed to be the first creature in existence. Says who? "The Hand" as they were called, may have been a race that lived, thrived, and left this universe long before Z'ha'dum's molten surface cooled into rock. Hell this could happen thoasands of times over. The question to ask would be why the hell would they want back in? If they were this powerful group of aliens that made the Shadows look like "insects" what the hell would they care about a bunch of squabbling amoeba like us?
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something witty and clever.. so laugh dammit!
hypatia
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myrl:
The universe has been here for billions of years. BILLIONS! God knows how many zeros go on that f*cker!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh, that would be 9 zeros after the one there, Myrl. You are really scaring me here.
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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Myrl:
The universe has been here for billions of years. BILLIONS! God knows how many zeros go on that f*cker!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh, that would be 9 zeros after the one there, Myrl. You are really scaring me here.
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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."-- Galileo
Kribu
Administrator
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
Hm, could the age of the beings - however old - be counted in hundreds of billions of years?
But then of course, why not... I mean, we don't really know anything of the beginning of the universe, even the best current theories could be quite off the mark...
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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths
Hm, could the age of the beings - however old - be counted in hundreds of billions of years?
But then of course, why not... I mean, we don't really know anything of the beginning of the universe, even the best current theories could be quite off the mark...
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"It's animal magnetism. What can I say?"
- G'Kar, A Tragedy of Telepaths
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
No I don't think it was hundreds but the anwer about nine zeros I thought missed the point of the earlier question.
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Bus
"Yeah, we could start our own game where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems."-Homer
No I don't think it was hundreds but the anwer about nine zeros I thought missed the point of the earlier question.
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Bus
"Yeah, we could start our own game where people throw ducks at balloons and nothing's the way it seems."-Homer
Chris Springob
Regular
Re: Anyone else apprehensive about \"The Hand\"? **SPOILERS**
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:
But then of course, why not... I mean, we don't really know anything of the beginning of the universe, even the best current theories could be quite off the mark...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While anything is possible, the standard model has held up pretty well over the last few years, and I'd be really surprised if the universe was hundreds of billions of years old.
Several posters have suggested ways in which the existence of aliens such as "The Hand" could be explained within the B5 universe. But I think my real point was that even if their existence could be justified, seeing them in the show would kind of undermine the idea that the younger races are now on their own, without any older races around anymore. And if they do "make the Shadows look like insects", then I don't see how you could plausibly have a fight with them. It would be like the Federation taking on the Q Continuum in Star Trek.
Again, not saying that there's no way for JMS to pull this off. Just saying that it doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kribu:
But then of course, why not... I mean, we don't really know anything of the beginning of the universe, even the best current theories could be quite off the mark...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
While anything is possible, the standard model has held up pretty well over the last few years, and I'd be really surprised if the universe was hundreds of billions of years old.
Several posters have suggested ways in which the existence of aliens such as "The Hand" could be explained within the B5 universe. But I think my real point was that even if their existence could be justified, seeing them in the show would kind of undermine the idea that the younger races are now on their own, without any older races around anymore. And if they do "make the Shadows look like insects", then I don't see how you could plausibly have a fight with them. It would be like the Federation taking on the Q Continuum in Star Trek.
Again, not saying that there's no way for JMS to pull this off. Just saying that it doesn't exactly inspire me with confidence.
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