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Anyone else kinda glad to see Crusade gone?

Actually, in a way I am glad that Crusade is gone. I would have loved to see it continue the way jms intended -- but the fact of the matter was, TNT's meddling did/would have tainted it. I suspect that the existing 13 episodes, save the few completed before the hiatus, would be much better as a whole without the "input" from the suits. I would not have wanted the show to continue under those circumstances. So really, I am sorry that Crusade didn't get the fair shot it deserved, but I'm not sorry that the adulterated end result was canned.

Would love to see Crusade continued if Rangers is successful. Sci-Fi knows what jms can do - and they'll let him do it.

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-jmb
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JMB1138:
-- but the fact of the matter was, TNT's meddling did/would have tainted it. I suspect that the existing 13 episodes, save the few completed before the hiatus, would be much better as a whole without the "input" from the suits.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, that goes without saying. The faster they got away from Cousin It from Atlanta, the better.

I just want Crusade to be continued in a different venue (Sci-Fi).

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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM on The Sci-Fi Channel.
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Is there some sort of 'rule' that says a season in the B5 universe is an 'earth year'?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JMS always seemed to use this as a rule of thumb. If you think about it it makes sense, as you would expect (normally) to get one season of the show per earth year.

In the case of any Crusade resurrection, this may have to be bent and twisted a bit to fit with where JMS was taking the story and over what period of time. He always had it slated as a five year (season) series, and a new season would be Season 2!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>A Call to Arms can then be a prematurly created telemovie for rangers, as they are involved with the events in crusade, are they not. Then another, rather substantial, subplot can be added to rangers, that being crusade. Two series in one.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An idea that has been much mentioned in these boards - and certainly JMS has implied that aspects of Crusade's plot will be dealt with when the series of B5LR (here's hoping) reaches S3, approximately.

Fundamentally, Crusade actually provides a continuation of some of the main plotlines from B5:TOS (
laugh.gif
) and on that basis alone I was sorry to see it go.

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DaveC
"Want to talk socks?"
 
Like B5, B5LR is an ensemble show with four major human characters among other major alien characters. B5LR has also been billed, in various places and in the trailer, as the "story of one man," with that one man being Martel. That seems to jive with what B5 was, and what Crusade was (you could tell from the opening credits that it was all about Gideon).

I'm already sensing connections between the three series, here. If there's one thing I admire JMS for, it's creating a universe that tells its own stories and just sits around waiting for him to pick them up.

Think about it (I'm going to be purposefully vague to avoid story ideas):

Earth was creating ShadowTech in B5 - witness, the ShadowTech destroyers Ivanova faced at the end of Season Four.

ShadowTech would have accounted for a rather large portion of Crusade's plot.

Our Rangers, especially the four humans, having MOST LIKELY served during the Shadow War and fought against the Shadows, would probably have a personal vested interest in Earth's dalliance with ShadowTech.

Mmm, bingo! Stories!

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS
 
could crusade also have had the 4 and 1 thing like b5?
except it was not exclusively human, there being gideon, galen, dureena and ...

but that is the nice thing about the universe.
I also like B5, and E:FC, SG1 and Andromeda for their lack of 'the problems solved; engage ensign crusher' shows. B5 is much better on that front, E:fc and andromeda have a nice arc, and he problems seemingly get worse by the episode.
But nothing is as good as B5 on that front

CSR

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Is there some sort of 'rule' that says a season in the B5 universe is an 'earth year'?

If not, and sci fi cannot gets the rights to create 'crusade'(namewise), then a season can cover 'less' than a year, especially after the second season(when the events of crusade start).
A Call to Arms can then be a prematurly created telemovie for rangers, as they are involved with the events in crusade, are they not. Then another, rather substantial, subplot can be added to rangers, that being crusade. Two series in one.
I would much prefer both series to be created independently, preferably crusade with the original core cast(gideon, galen,dureena,a couple others--sorry i dont remember more, havent been able to see the show for 2 years--i wouldnt care if the captains chef, for example, was different).

CSR

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Crusade had great potential and promise, but--much as I love the show, for all its flaws-- those flashes were few and far between in the episodes we saw on screen.

Others have mentioned that the unaired scripts showed much more promise than the ones we saw, and ITA with this.

One thing that struck me about Crusade was that it was very linear. One story per episode. I know there were exceptions like WoF, but most featured just one story. I can't remember ANY B5 episodes which were that simple. Was JMS too tired to write in the complexity and weave plots in the way he had in B5?

Having said all that, I loved some of the characters, particularly Gideon, and saw great porential for development.

So no, I'm not heppy that Crusade was cancelled
frown.gif


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Demon
 
Actually most of the existing Crusade episodes had some kind of "B" story - personal conflict stuff like blackmailing Max over his porn collection, Alwyn and Galen's relationship in "The Long Road" (which was connected to, but distinct from, the main plot with the mine), or unrelated items like the "mysterious smell" in "Visitors from Down the Street" and redecorating the ship in "Appearances"

Remember JMS's rules for B5: 1) The proportion of "wham" to non-"wham" episodes goes from lower to higher from season to season. 2) Within seasons the there is less overt "arc" stuff in the early episodes than in the later, so as to make it easier for new folks sampling different shows to pick up the story. This tends to mean simpler "B" stories and no "C" story, so people can understand the essence of the show without having seen the earlier episodes.

In Crusade's case this plan was slightly distorted becaue JMS had, in effect, created two sets of "early episodes" consuming 10 out of the 13 completed shows. His "first five" were designed to get the show off to a fast start. Then TNT wanted a new "first" episode, followed by some others, before airing the grey uniform shows. So he had to apply the same logic of bringing in new viewers to the new set as to the already-finished-it's-too-late-to-change-them original five.

He didn't forget how to write, and he wasn't that tired. But he was trying to hit a moving target and even the best marksman can find that challenging if he doesn't usually shoot that way.

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division
joseph-demartino@att.net
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:
.... He didn't forget how to write, and he wasn't that tired. But he was trying to hit a moving target and even the best marksman can find that challenging if he doesn't usually shoot that way.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Great explanation, Joe.
smile.gif


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KoshN
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Vorlon Empire

"To Live and Die in Starlight"
pilot movie for "Babylon 5 - The Legend of the Rangers"
January 19, 2002 at 9PM & 11PM EST, January 20, 2002 at 5PM on The Sci-Fi Channel (US).
http://www.scifi.com/b5rangers/
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Actually most of the existing Crusade episodes had some kind of "B" story - personal conflict stuff like blackmailing Max over his porn collection, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, not sure I'd agree that this was a 'B' story as the crystal was an essential part of Gideon's getting the alien away from the bounty hunters

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Alwyn and Galen's relationship in "The Long Road" (which was connected to, but distinct from, the main plot with the mine), <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK, I see what you're saying, but to me this was character development stuff, particularly for Galen, as opposed to a separate story. If you took this away, the main story would have suffered.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> or unrelated items like the "mysterious smell" in "Visitors from Down the Street" and redecorating the ship in "Appearances" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now those WERE separate stories, and the main story would have carried on unaffected without them. Forgot about those
smile.gif


And how could I ever forget Kevin, my favourite fascist fashion designer?

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Demon

[This message has been edited by Demon (edited December 12, 2001).]
 
From what I can see, Babylon 5 started off rather sketchy as well. When I'm watching the first few episodes, I'm constantly looking forward to the later seasons.

The first season of any show, especially one with as much depth as Babylon 5, should be used as an intro to the show. A season to introduce characters, the time frame, what's happening, new races, etc. Even Babylon 5's main story line didn't take shape until season 2.

-Natron

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<font color="yellow"> Originally posted by Londonium: </font color>
Now I know we were all very sad when Crusade did not survive, but the more I think about it, it's really better this way.
If Crusade had continued, LOTR would almost certainly not have been made, and assuming it goes to series, Rangers has the potential to be a much better series than Crusade ever could have been.
Click to expand...

No, if Crusade had continued, Warner Brothers' loss of all the CGI files would not have been a problem, because Netter Digital would have still been working on Crusade, and would have had the files on-hand. This is something that handicapped "To Live and Die in Starlight" and will handicap all future B5 universe projects (if there ever are any).

If Crusade had continued, we'd probably be in Season 5 by now, and Netter Digital would probably still be around. We'd probably still have the Fan Club, and a Babylon 5/Crusade magazine, and the actors would have had steady jobs for five years.

Were it not for the dead hand of TNT, we'd have all of this. Instead, we have Babylon 5 on at 9AM on Sci-Fi (starting 3/31), only 13 episodes of Crusade (with pop-ups everywhere), no magazine, and no Fan Club.
frown.gif
frown.gif
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Glad to see Crusade gone?

rolleyes.gif
My turning away from television really started with the end of Crusade.

Glad to see such interesting characters and great actors and potentially interesting stories gone for good?

I am not only NOT glad, I have found myself turning away from all television. Except to catch the news.

What a sick question. No, I am NOT glad to see such an interesting series gone.
 
Not to mention the most important reason: that those cgi files would still be around and the NDEI boys would be able to re-render B5's cgi in glorious anamorphic widescreen for the DVD releases.

sigh
 
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