B*ron

[**DONOTDELETE**]

[censored]

It's about time there was a Byron discussion thread. So, what is it that makes this character so obnoxious?

[This message has been edited by breen (edited January 28, 2002).]

 

[Cern]

I don't like his wonky Eye.

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So come on rally round this brave and valiant cause with tradition, pride, and honor at its core. With swords drawn to defend stood these noble-hearted men. Faugh-an-ballagh, clear the way, me boys!!
-Dropkick Murphys: Heroes From Our Past

 

[A_Ranger]

I don't understand why so many people hate him. I had no problem with Bryon or the Telepath thread. In fact, I though it was quite excellent. It showed that there is never a perfectly happy ending. So they won the Shadow and Civil wars, and then the Byron screws things up. S**t happens. That's life. And that's why I liked Season 5, because it showed our characters dealing with crap.

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[Arrghman]

i liked the whole thread, but i didnt like the actual character of byron... he was arrogant and pompus, and despite the fact that he was against the psicorp, he still had the same condescending attitude toward norms... he would automatically assume that all norms are out to get the teeps and that all teeps are inherently good and the psicorp itself was twisting them

and it was his arrogance that allowed much of the situation to spiral out of control...

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG

 

[A_Ranger]

I don't think Byron thouht ALL normals were out to get teeps. I think he knew people like Sheridan were sympathetic and may have even wanted to help them.

Besides, if you were forced to join an organization because of the way you were born, and forced to live your life under strict rules, constantly trying to keep your natural processes under control, wouldn't you be pissed?

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it

 

[Recoil]

I hated his long, conditioned, full-bodied hair.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[Arrghman]

perhaps his opinion of norms wasnt completely an umbrella... but the impression i got was that he first assumed that a normal person was 'bad'... guilty until proven innocent

he still ragged on sheridan a bit with the teeps used in the shadow war if i remember correctly

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG

 

[BlackStar]

I didn't really mind him. Well, not really. From what I've read, though, the little teep storyline would have been much more interesting if CC would have stayed on.

I do, however, admit that the whole bunch of Down Below Teeps were, well, just plain weird. They all had a strange way about them.

Other than that, though, I really didn't have a huge problem with him. Except the singing. Not good.

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"I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves." -Ludwig Wittgenstein
blackstar@welivefortheone.b5lr.com | BlackStar's Gallery

 

[Recoil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> I didn't really mind him. Well, not really. From what I've read, though, the little teep storyline would have been much more interesting if CC would have stayed on. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I heard the story was supposed to go something like Ivonnova hooking up with Byron on the rebound after what happened with Marcus. The fact she was a latent telepath would have been part of it. Frankly, everytime I think of that possible arc, I can taste the bile in the back of my throat.

Mind you, not that it was a bad idea on JMS's part, and I am sure it would have been interesting, but again, the thought of that scenario makes me wanna launch.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

 

[DW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by breen:
[censored]

It's about time there was a Byron discussion thread. So, what is it that makes this character so obnoxious?

[This message has been edited by breen (edited January 28, 2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, we have had many discussion threads about that dude. They have just gone to the back pages never to be seen again.

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Have a nice day!!!

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

^And with good reason!

 

[Jomar]

IIRC the first time we saw Byron was when he sat down at breakfast with Lochley. Then he was in the hall eavesdropping on Sheridan and the Drazi ambassador. He only told Lyta what he had learned after she had agreed to join with his group. He owed Sheridan for letting the telepaths stay on Babylon5 so why didn't he tell S. that the Drazi was going to double-cross him and send a group of warships to destroy the White Stars.

It seemed to me that Byron was a smarmy guy with a swelled head and a martyr complex. I really didn't like him at all. I think JMS indicated that Claudia would have been interested initially but wouldn't have fallen in love with him, she would have realized that it was just her feeling of guilt over Marcus' death that she was compensating for at first. In the end she would have sent him packing.

Also I hated his singing group

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[bakana]

Perhaps the following JMS quotes will help:


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> Lots of people seem to have this idea that the final result was widely divergent from the original arc, hence this interest, and that proceeds from a false premise. It really didn't change that much. Anyone looking at the S1 bible right now sees stuff that was laid out for the later seasons, and it was pretty much all done... right down to telling writers not to get Lyta into a relationship because she would eventually become starstruck by Byron, and I didn't want anything else to get in the way of that.
jms

>
>I thought Byron was originally intended for Ivanova, up until Claudia
>decided to leave the show...???
>


Correct. Note the use of the word *starstruck*, not *involved with*.

The theory was that Byron would have gotten involved with Ivanova, who -- feeling she'd messed up by being too closed off to a somewhat similar person decides to take a chance with someone, only to have it blow up in her face -- while Lyta suffered from unrequited love (a constant B5 theme), which would no less fuel her desire to avenge him.
jms <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


The key words in the above are:
"... blow up in her face --"

Byron would have done something to Hurt Ivanova. Instead of Loving her, he'd have Used her.
Just as he was using everyone Else in his quest for Martyrdom.


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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited January 28, 2002).]

 

[Mondo Londo]

As mentioned above, we have loads of Byron threads on this site; and with a little work, they're not that hard to find.

Nevertheless, it seems we now have another.

So, what the heck...

I thought Byron was a rather interesting character. I just couldn't stand the singing!

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"What's up, Drakh?"

Michael Garibaldi

 

[DW]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mondo Londo:


I thought Byron was a rather interesting character. I just couldn't stand the singing!

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just the singing!! For me, it was everything about the dude. Which makes me wonder, why do we have so many threads about him anyway? I just don't understand.



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Have a nice day!!!

 

[Cern]

Byron and his Teeps were a bunch of Space Hippies. And I hate Hippies. They're non-violent...the blind fools.

Plus theres still that wonky eye...

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So come on rally round this brave and valiant cause with tradition, pride, and honor at its core. With swords drawn to defend stood these noble-hearted men. Faugh-an-ballagh, clear the way, me boys!!
-Dropkick Murphys: Heroes From Our Past

 

[Jomar]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cern:
Byron and his Teeps were a bunch of Space Hippies. And I hate Hippies. They're non-violent...the blind fools.

Plus theres still that wonky eye...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree the telepaths looked like leftovers from the sixties only they're two centuries out of date. Byron was antagonistic to everyone and the rest followed his lead. They were a sorry lot but worst of all, they were boring.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

 

[GKarsEye]

FYI: We were not supposed to like him.

It seems people get the idea that, because he was against the Psi-Corp and Lyta fell in love with him, he is a "good guy." Well, he is and he isn't- like real life.

In Babylon 5, there are a few individuals who are heroic and always do the right thing: Sinclair, Sheridan. There are some baddies that are quite evil: Morden, Cartagia. But most characters fall somewhere in the middle. Bester is "bad" but not completely. Byron is "good," but sort of. Lochley does well, but there was the question of her involvement in the civil war. Lennier in Mr Nice Guy... except at the end. Garibaldi is an alcoholic, lousy at personal relationship, and even a traitor- but everyone wouldn't hesitate to call him a "good guy."

Byron is the Babylon 5 version of Malcolm X: leader of an oppressed group who empowered them by forming a sense of identity seperate from others. Both Byron and Malcolm had understandable reasons for doing what they did, but both had questionable ways of thinking and methods as well.

No, I don't "like" Byron. I also don't "like" Bester. But I'm glad they were in the show.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

 

[Recoil]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>In Babylon 5, there are a few individuals who are heroic and always do the right thing: Sinclair, Sheridan<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not so sure that even Sheridan 'always' did the right thing. Although I do think you are dead on correct as far as that the neat thing about B5 is that their characters and stories are more lifelike.

Even Sheridan crossed the line a few times, and he wasn't your typical 'always right, never wrong' hero. There were several examples of him doing the morally 'wrong' thing in the show. His imprisonment of Morden when he discovered who he was is one example. Kind of what I call 'Ahab syndrome'

.

Also, many believed, and Garibaldi was one of them when he was 'influenced' by Besters programming, that Sheridan was a megalomaniac. To a degree I think he was. He was doing the right thing, an extreme thing, but sometimes he was overboard as well.

One KEY mistake I believe he made over and over, and ALL the other characters made the same mistake, is his treatment of Lyta. Poor Lyta. Here is a character who was manipulated by the Vorlons, tossed aside by them. Put herself at the front lines of the Shadow war (in both Shadow Dancing and Into the Fire). Risked her life to travel back to Z'Ha'Dum to search for Sheridan when he was missing. She is probalby the MAIN AND ONLY reason so many lives weren't lost on the final assault on earth. She controlled the telepaths that disabled the Earth Destroyers, preventing a larger conflict. After all that she gave for B5, she never got much of a 'thanks'. Never was really accepted into the group of friends, and was over and over again USED when it suited Sheridans and the others needs. So our 'heros' used someone when it suited them, but never really accepted her into the group, or trusted her enough to call her their friend cause she was a telepath. I dont think there is a finer example of prejudice. I think all our heros were prejudice of telepaths in some way, shape or form. Even if not that, they were hypocritical enough to use them when it suited them, but never really befriend the ones who helped them out.

So no, I don't even think Sheridan was perfect. None of them were where Lyta was concerned, which is another reason I like B5

It isnt always a perfect story, it is more true-to-life in places then we all would like to admit.

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'I don't believe in the no-win scenario' - JTK

[This message has been edited by Recoil (edited January 29, 2002).]

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR> One KEY mistake I believe he made over and over, and ALL the other characters made the same mistake, is his treatment of Lyta. Poor Lyta. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

my thoughts exactly, i know i would have thanked her for ALL that.

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