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B5 IS a modern interpretation of Lord of the Rings

S

solaris5

Beyond the rim
And nothing you say or do will make me beleive otherwise. I'm just on the beggining of Return of the King, and I've noticed so much similarities themewise as well as the naming of many things that it really made me think. Just how heavily was JMS' writing based on Tolkien's?

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My name: Solaris5....
My mission: to burst the bubble of idiocy that has enveloped everyone and bring common sense back from beyond the rim.
 
oh here we go again...
crazy.gif


sure, there are some minor similarities, but the main plots are completely and utterly different... as different as the main arcs of ds9 and b5 in fact
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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by solaris5:
And nothing you say or do will make me beleive otherwise. I'm just on the beggining of Return of the King, and I've noticed so much similarities themewise as well as the naming of many things that it really made me think. Just how heavily was JMS' writing based on Tolkien's?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One caveat in your conclusion is that Tolkien himself based his writings heavily on existing mythology, though in clever disguise most of the time. But Turin Turambar in the Silmarillion is nabbed almost 1:1 out of the Finnish Kalevala, where his name is Kullervo.

So if some elements show up both in the Lord of the Rings and in B5, that does not mean that one is the source for the other, they could have had the same source together.

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If I tell you my name is Lorien, what good is that?

(Whatever happened to Mr. Garibaldi?)
 
1. Rather different plots.
2. Rather different characters.
3. Magic versus logic.

I could not read the "LotR" books. Fantasy usually disgusts me. But I loved "Babylon 5". This is their difference from my limited viewpoint.

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"We are the universe, trying to figure itself out.
Unfortunately we as software lack any coherent documentation."
-- Delenn
 
Aww, don't jump down his throat! Although the similarities have been discussed ad-nauseum on the moderated groups and Genie, I think a better way of looking at the title of this thread is how B5 is a modern day epic that is thematically similar.

Of course the characters and main plot are different, but it's fun looking for similarities (an ancient evil enemy, epic story, etc.) The neat thing I always bring up (not saying this is my idea) is that Season 1 is somewhat like the Hobbit - different main character Sinclair/Bilbo, while Season 2-4 (maybe 5) is like LOTR - same universe but a new main character to tell the arc. Bilbo/Sinclair even returns later in the story at a critical juncture!

All discussions of B5 should be encouraged, even if it's calling it LOTR with the serial numbers filed off...
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All great stories consist of main themes and archetypes that have been at the center of literature since an alphabet was invented. The Hero archetype, the sacrificial womb, etc. You can relate any story arc/novel/trilogy to any other if you dissect and analyze them enough. They are fun to look at and discuss but to say that an author based his writings on another authors would need more proof than these types of coincidences.

I believe that Babylon 5 is one of the greatest stories ever told. I've only seen the movie "Lord of the Rings" without having read the books, and have deemed it a good story. Great stories like these are all going to have these subtle underlying themes that are omnipresent in literature throughout the ages. It is these features of a great story that makes it truly timeless.

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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
B5 is it's own. But, I've just started The Fellowship of the Ring, and I've noticed many similar things: Rangers, the Enemy, Lorien, Kazadum, etc...

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-With every light is born a shadow-
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elizar:
B5 is it's own. But, I've just started The Fellowship of the Ring, and I've noticed many similar things: Rangers, the Enemy, Lorien, Kazadum, etc...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I assume you should also have noticed Aragorn's prediction about Gandalf and going to moria, which i beleive was also called kazadum in a different language, elvish maybe:
If you go to kazadum... you will die!
I mean, come on. And I've seen the enemy being referred to as shadows a bunch of times.
Trust me, you will see more as the story continues.
I'm not saying he ripped it off, but I am saying that it was based on it, heavily.

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My name: Solaris5....
My mission: to burst the bubble of idiocy that has enveloped everyone and bring common sense back from beyond the rim.
 
well i dont understand then, LotR is about this ancient evil returning to conqure everything, etc etc... right?

b5 is about that at all. the shadows arent the bad guys and the vorlons arent the good guys. the plot is *completely* different.

some similarites are there... in terms of very minor plot points and character names. didnt JMS use the name lorien just because people kept comparing the two? and the rangers in b5... there are no other rangers in any other stories?

i mean, yeah, comparing the minor things are fun. sure. but the heart of each work, the main plots, are both rather different...

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But the Shadows were an ancient evil. From the first shadow war. And there was a first war in which Sauron was defeated, just like the shadows were defeated. There are differences, yes, only a fool would claim otherwise, but these two works are more closely related than most people would care to admit.

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My name: Solaris5....
My mission: to burst the bubble of idiocy that has enveloped everyone and bring common sense back from beyond the rim.
 
JMS based a lot of it on ancient myths and literature, hence the name Babylon. So any similarities to LOTR are either a) names b) because LOTR was also based on acient literature

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We're all born as molecules in the hearts of a billion stars, molecules that do not understand politics, policies and differences. In a billion years we, foolish molecules forget who we are and where we came from. Desperate acts of ego. We give ourselves names, fight over lines on maps. And pretend our light is better than everyone else's. The flame reminds us of the piece of those stars that live inside us. A spark that tells us: you should know better. The flame also reminds us that life is precious, as each flame is unique. When it goes out, it's gone forever. And there will never be another quite like it
 
A lot of homage is paid to Lord of the Rings. (Z'ha'dum, khazadum, Rangers, the Minbari = the Elves, etc.)

But B5 is a much closer tie to the legends of King Arthur, his grail knights and the "shining beacon of light" against the enroaching darkness - Camelot.

Of course, arthurian legend was also a *part* of Lord of the Rings. Just as it is a *part* of B5.

The tie is equally strong to the history of World War one, the establishment of the League of Nations, World War Two, and then the formation of the United Nations.

The homages to these in B5 are abundant.

But these are homages and sources of inspiration. There is a vast difference between this and any allegation of "plagarism".
Someone once said there are only about six different stories in the world. What is original is how you mix these six stories together, and how you tell them....


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Diogenes
Babcom newsletter
layout & design www.robertshome.org/babcom
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[This message has been edited by Diogenes (edited February 13, 2002).]
 
I don't think B5 is ripped off from lord of the rings, but some of the ideas for B5 may have come from it.

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-With every light is born a shadow-
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Diogenes:
There is a vast difference between this and any allegation of "plagarism".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by solaris5:
I'm not saying he ripped it off, but I am saying that it was based on it, heavily.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hate to appear like an ass, but yeah. Read my posts.

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My name: Solaris5....
My mission: to burst the bubble of idiocy that has enveloped everyone and bring common sense back from beyond the rim.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elizar:
I don't think B5 is ripped off from lord of the rings, but some of the ideas for B5 may have come from it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Look to the above post.


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My name: Solaris5....
My mission: to burst the bubble of idiocy that has enveloped everyone and bring common sense back from beyond the rim.
 
the shadows werent evil... ancient, yeah. the vorlons taught us that they were evil.. but they weren't. thats one of the core points of b5...

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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>And nothing you say or do will make me beleive otherwise. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Folks, this thread will not accomplish anything, because solaris has said, point blank, that nothing we do can convince him, even if it involves silly little things like the truth.

Sol, if there is nothing we can do, maybe there is something you can do: study history, mythology, religion, and culture. I know you read modern sci-fi, and that's cool, but I would suggest broadening your frame of reference if you truly are interested in understanding where modern stories come from.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Folks, this thread will not accomplish anything, because solaris has said, point blank, that nothing we do can convince him, even if it involves silly little things like the truth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

what can i say... i like a challange
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### Hi, I'm a sig virus. Please add me to the end of your signature so I can take over the world.### - caught from Saps @ B5MG
 
You mean Facts like things JMS said:

Londo is King Lear.
G'Kar is Cassandra.
Ivanova is Galahad.
The inspiration for the Rangers was "The Lone Ranger".

And, in the Title, BABYLON is No Accident!



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Do not ascribe your own motivations to others:
At best, it will break your heart.
At worst, it will get you dead."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Sol, if there is nothing we can do, maybe there is something you can do: study history, mythology, religion, and culture. I know you read modern sci-fi, and that's cool, but I would suggest broadening your frame of reference if you truly are interested in understanding where modern stories come from. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said GKE!
wink.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Londo is King Lear.
G'Kar is Cassandra.
Ivanova is Galahad.
The inspiration for the Rangers was "The Lone Ranger". <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You forgot-
Babylon 5 is Casablanca in Space.
tongue.gif


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YOU ARE NOT READY FOR IMMORTALITY!
 
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