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B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide's 25 Top Cult Shows List
- Thread starter Londos6
- Start date
Alluveal
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows List
Hahaha, you know how many people were at the last Xena con I went to? (the one where Rene O'conner and Lucy Lawless were present?) a few thousand folks crammed into a convention room. Xena has a HUGE following. It was through Xena message boards that I became interested in message boards at all. Just because it's not a "guy show" doesn't mean it can't have a cult following.
As for the "dyke" and "lipstick" following, was that really necessary? There were almost as many men at these conventions as there were women. All of my friends (females and males) enjoy Xena and not a single one of us are homosexual, bi or otherwise "curious." Thanks for the stereotypes though. I've heard folks call B5 fans "geeks with no social lives--comrpised of mostly men with small endowments" and I'm not about to jump on that bandwagon. I know all kinds of different people watch this show: men, women, rich, poor, foreign, domestic, gay, straight. Use your heads a little, plzkthx.
I loved seeing "My So Called Life" and "Freaks and Geeks" on there. Both series received nominations for best drama emmys (and golden globes as well, I think) and both were cancelled after one season. Freaks and Geeks is a fraggin' awesome show. It's my next DVD purchase.
X-Files I'm happy to see up there as well, though the last season was horrendous.
Hahaha, you know how many people were at the last Xena con I went to? (the one where Rene O'conner and Lucy Lawless were present?) a few thousand folks crammed into a convention room. Xena has a HUGE following. It was through Xena message boards that I became interested in message boards at all. Just because it's not a "guy show" doesn't mean it can't have a cult following.
As for the "dyke" and "lipstick" following, was that really necessary? There were almost as many men at these conventions as there were women. All of my friends (females and males) enjoy Xena and not a single one of us are homosexual, bi or otherwise "curious." Thanks for the stereotypes though. I've heard folks call B5 fans "geeks with no social lives--comrpised of mostly men with small endowments" and I'm not about to jump on that bandwagon. I know all kinds of different people watch this show: men, women, rich, poor, foreign, domestic, gay, straight. Use your heads a little, plzkthx.
I loved seeing "My So Called Life" and "Freaks and Geeks" on there. Both series received nominations for best drama emmys (and golden globes as well, I think) and both were cancelled after one season. Freaks and Geeks is a fraggin' awesome show. It's my next DVD purchase.
X-Files I'm happy to see up there as well, though the last season was horrendous.
PillowRock
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
Farscape always played very fast and loose with their science. There was, therefore, always a portion of the potential audiance that preferred what I've seen called "hard SF" (gettting the science as right as humanly possible, with the exception of one or two requirements such as faster-than-light travel) that could never get past that.
They also could have been much more consistent in their portrayal of the "translator microbes". I suspect that they were initially purposely vague so as to not box themselves in. However, they kept treating it as having been left vague (and therefore open to arbitrary interpretations or refinements) after they had set precedents in earlier episodes. This was a source of great frustration at times on the Farscape message boards. Eventually (meaning by the middle of the third season) the message board debates about how TM's worked pretty much ended because every theory that was supported in one episode was contradicted by another episode. There were no unconradicted theories left.
Finally, if you go looking throughout the series you will be able to find a few plot holes. These include one or two truly huge, drive-a-levaithan-through-it holes.
Even with all of that having been said, Farscape always struck me as being very well written. They had a high percentage of good ideas. They didn't get into ruts of doing the same things all of the time (at least not nearly to the degree of almost all series TV). Their characterization and character growth over time was excellent. And their dialog was a lot of fun and generally well done. They just didn't particularly care about doing a lot of background research into how the science should work, or letting contradictions between how they wanted the science to work and how it actually would work get in the way of telling the story that they wanted to tell.
As for the quality of the show in terms of things like production values, acting etc. .....
I always thought that Farscape was on the high end of the scale (relative to series TV).
Farscape always played very fast and loose with their science. There was, therefore, always a portion of the potential audiance that preferred what I've seen called "hard SF" (gettting the science as right as humanly possible, with the exception of one or two requirements such as faster-than-light travel) that could never get past that.
They also could have been much more consistent in their portrayal of the "translator microbes". I suspect that they were initially purposely vague so as to not box themselves in. However, they kept treating it as having been left vague (and therefore open to arbitrary interpretations or refinements) after they had set precedents in earlier episodes. This was a source of great frustration at times on the Farscape message boards. Eventually (meaning by the middle of the third season) the message board debates about how TM's worked pretty much ended because every theory that was supported in one episode was contradicted by another episode. There were no unconradicted theories left.
Finally, if you go looking throughout the series you will be able to find a few plot holes. These include one or two truly huge, drive-a-levaithan-through-it holes.
Even with all of that having been said, Farscape always struck me as being very well written. They had a high percentage of good ideas. They didn't get into ruts of doing the same things all of the time (at least not nearly to the degree of almost all series TV). Their characterization and character growth over time was excellent. And their dialog was a lot of fun and generally well done. They just didn't particularly care about doing a lot of background research into how the science should work, or letting contradictions between how they wanted the science to work and how it actually would work get in the way of telling the story that they wanted to tell.
As for the quality of the show in terms of things like production values, acting etc. .....
I always thought that Farscape was on the high end of the scale (relative to series TV).
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
I probably watched half of the Farscapes. There were things I liked and things I couldn't freakin' stand. I thought Skorpius/Harvey was one of the more interesting characters I've seen on TV. On the other hand, every episode featured an alien more annoying than the last.
The inconsistency was rampant. One episode would be hard and driving, with a real point to it, and the next would make we hope no one walked in while I was watching. The writers were fond of sillines to a point that made my stomach turn. It -could- have been a much better show.
I probably watched half of the Farscapes. There were things I liked and things I couldn't freakin' stand. I thought Skorpius/Harvey was one of the more interesting characters I've seen on TV. On the other hand, every episode featured an alien more annoying than the last.
The inconsistency was rampant. One episode would be hard and driving, with a real point to it, and the next would make we hope no one walked in while I was watching. The writers were fond of sillines to a point that made my stomach turn. It -could- have been a much better show.
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
I thought that the whole far out silliness and hard hitting drama balance was the coolest thing about the whole show. They managed to create a universe that was equally terrifying as it was errrrm, drugged up. I seriously think the writers of the show were on something for that matter
I thought that the whole far out silliness and hard hitting drama balance was the coolest thing about the whole show. They managed to create a universe that was equally terrifying as it was errrrm, drugged up. I seriously think the writers of the show were on something for that matter
hypatia
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
Farscape got too weird for me when it was first on, I admit. I'm seeing some episodes now and finding it to be more interesting than I had remembered.
It is a unique blend of the fanciful with the terrifying, most definitely. When is the miniseries going to be aired?
Pillow Rock, I'm trying to think of a series (any series on television, ever) which has really been "hard science fiction". There are precious few books out that fit that description, IMHO, I can't think of a single science fiction series from any country that would qualify as hard science fiction.
Farscape got too weird for me when it was first on, I admit. I'm seeing some episodes now and finding it to be more interesting than I had remembered.
It is a unique blend of the fanciful with the terrifying, most definitely. When is the miniseries going to be aired?
KoshN
Super Moderator
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
Agreed. I gradually began to lose interest as they got more and more "outrageous" (at the Sci-Fi Channel's behest.). I started getting fed-up with it in late Season 2, and started missing episodes in Season 3, and really disliked "Eat Me", although Infinite Possibilities, Parts 1 & 2 turned out well. Then, I skipped until the start of Season 4. I watched episodes after that mainly to see Claudia Black.
Agreed. I gradually began to lose interest as they got more and more "outrageous" (at the Sci-Fi Channel's behest.). I started getting fed-up with it in late Season 2, and started missing episodes in Season 3, and really disliked "Eat Me", although Infinite Possibilities, Parts 1 & 2 turned out well. Then, I skipped until the start of Season 4. I watched episodes after that mainly to see Claudia Black.
PillowRock
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
Think about B5. How many times, after about the middle of S1, did they introduce wholly unprecedented scientific postualtions or technologies did they introduce? How many times did a new "godlike alien" (to use a phrase of John Crichton's) showed up more or less at random. A show like B5 is much less likely to push their unrealistic-ness beyond what might be considered acceptable by someone with "hard SF" preferences. Farscape, on the other hand, would be very likely to have not just crossed that line, but to have blown way, way past it without hesitating.
Don't get me wrong. I love Farscape. I think that it is great fun. However, I can easily see how some people won't like it at all. Some of those people will be turned off by the inconsistancies in their science. More (in my opinion) will probably be turned off by the sheer bizarreness of the proceedings. That's fair.
Where I disagree with the comment that started this sub-thread is that the poster was equating this ("silliness", "fancifulness", "strangeness", whatever word you want to use) with an overall lack of quality. I would put this in the differing tastes and preferences category while maintaining that Farscape consistently had quite a high level of quality in every objectively discernable area.
True. However, a few series (including B5) come *much* closer to maintaining believable science than most others (including Farscape).
Think about B5. How many times, after about the middle of S1, did they introduce wholly unprecedented scientific postualtions or technologies did they introduce? How many times did a new "godlike alien" (to use a phrase of John Crichton's) showed up more or less at random. A show like B5 is much less likely to push their unrealistic-ness beyond what might be considered acceptable by someone with "hard SF" preferences. Farscape, on the other hand, would be very likely to have not just crossed that line, but to have blown way, way past it without hesitating.
Don't get me wrong. I love Farscape. I think that it is great fun. However, I can easily see how some people won't like it at all. Some of those people will be turned off by the inconsistancies in their science. More (in my opinion) will probably be turned off by the sheer bizarreness of the proceedings. That's fair.
Where I disagree with the comment that started this sub-thread is that the poster was equating this ("silliness", "fancifulness", "strangeness", whatever word you want to use) with an overall lack of quality. I would put this in the differing tastes and preferences category while maintaining that Farscape consistently had quite a high level of quality in every objectively discernable area.
As far as I know, the most specific date that we have heard has been "fourth quarter of 2004".
PillowRock
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
I don't know if this has been posted in the PK War photos thread, because I avoid anything that might tend to be spoilerish.
On the off chance that you (hyp) haven't seen this anywhere else:
More recent references (as compared to Skiffy's original "fourth quarter" statements) have listed the mini-series as airing in October.
I don't know if this has been posted in the PK War photos thread, because I avoid anything that might tend to be spoilerish.
On the off chance that you (hyp) haven't seen this anywhere else:
More recent references (as compared to Skiffy's original "fourth quarter" statements) have listed the mini-series as airing in October.
hypatia
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
October, eh? Hmm. For some reason I'd figure they'd put it on for sweeps week. And isn't that in November?
Thanks, October is a good month for me. I'll be getting bored by then and watching mroe tv probably.
I am very curious about the miniseries. The title isnt' considered a spoiler, is it?
October, eh? Hmm. For some reason I'd figure they'd put it on for sweeps week. And isn't that in November?
Thanks, October is a good month for me. I'll be getting bored by then and watching mroe tv probably.
I am very curious about the miniseries. The title isnt' considered a spoiler, is it?
PillowRock
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
Well, it is both so widespread as to be unavoidable (if you are in Farscape fandom at all) and so vague and still open to multiple possibilities as to not really give anything away.
It's not like when JMS was withholding the title of the S3 finale because it was such a spoiler.
Well, it is both so widespread as to be unavoidable (if you are in Farscape fandom at all) and so vague and still open to multiple possibilities as to not really give anything away.
It's not like when JMS was withholding the title of the S3 finale because it was such a spoiler.
hypatia
Regular
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
O.K. I just wanted to say a Peacekeeper War is an interesting idea.
Like having the Navy attacking the Army?
I assume they mean a war between Peacekeeprs, since by their nature they are pretty much always at war with someone, right? Weren't they the hired guns of the galaxy?
I have Farscape on my Netflix list. I may have to move the episodes up to catch them all before the wrap-up miniseries comes along in October.
Thanks for all of the info, everyone.
O.K. I just wanted to say a Peacekeeper War is an interesting idea.
Like having the Navy attacking the Army?
I assume they mean a war between Peacekeeprs, since by their nature they are pretty much always at war with someone, right? Weren't they the hired guns of the galaxy?
I have Farscape on my Netflix list. I may have to move the episodes up to catch them all before the wrap-up miniseries comes along in October.
Thanks for all of the info, everyone.
JJCoolbean
Member
Re: B5 Ranked #13 on TV Guide\'s 25 Top Cult Shows
I too have problems with the consistency in Farscape. I've watched the episodes on DVD, back-to-back, and I take issue with the rather loose characterizations and plot threads.
For instance, you'll have a one-dimenisional character like Rigel act like a pompus ass for about a dozen episodes, then in an episode like Jeremiah Crition he "learns" a lesson. This "new" Rigel lasts for a few more episodes then suddenly Rigel goes back to being a pompus ass, trying to sell out his "friends" at every turn.
The same thing with Dargo. First, Dargo will treat Crition with contempt out of plain arrogance for a dozen or so episodes. Then Crition and Dargo will become best friends and talk of how close they have become. Finally, without it being explained on-screen Dargo will then revert back to his "angry" form for a series of episodes and the process repeats itself.
The most frustrating example for me was Kreis. Here is a character that is a meglamaniac throughout season 1. Every time you see him he is portrayed as ruthless and arrogant, without any concern for anyone but himself. Suddenly, after a very interesting season 1 cliff-hanger that promises some difficult choices for Kreis and others, season 2 begins with a preposterous deal between Aeryn and Kreis. Then Kreis, from that point on, is inexplicibly the most pious, self-less character on the program. He, for no apparently logical reason, develops an intensely protective relationship with Talyn immediately in season 2. There is no progression to this point at all for Kreis!
It's as if the latest whims of the writers dictates everything. A writer gets an idea and the characters and arc suddenly do a 180-degree turn until the next whim comes and pulls everything into another direction.
As a Babylon 5 fan who has seen the attention to detail and continuity that a sci-fi series can have I have a hard time overlooking these glaring gaffes in Farscape, a series that aired AFTER Babylon 5. One-off stories don't necessarily bother me, but I hate when the so-called moments of continuity are treated so liberally. Farscape is not a series for nitpickers.
I also find many of the plots to be derivative. As anyone familiar with Trek can tell you, the Farscape creative staff, who seem to go out of their way in knock Star Trek as they praise their own program, borrow a LOT of Star Trek plots and themes.
I do like the production values, though. And when the program isn't being self-conscious with gimmicks and instead focuses on CONSCEQUENCES and bold storytelling (As with Season 1 one as Scorpius appears to the season finale and sections of season 3 and 4) it is a high quality program. I just hate when I get caught up in a storyline and the powers that be decide to, essentially, write off a plot thread rather than put the thought and effort to work things out logically.
I too have problems with the consistency in Farscape. I've watched the episodes on DVD, back-to-back, and I take issue with the rather loose characterizations and plot threads.
For instance, you'll have a one-dimenisional character like Rigel act like a pompus ass for about a dozen episodes, then in an episode like Jeremiah Crition he "learns" a lesson. This "new" Rigel lasts for a few more episodes then suddenly Rigel goes back to being a pompus ass, trying to sell out his "friends" at every turn.
The same thing with Dargo. First, Dargo will treat Crition with contempt out of plain arrogance for a dozen or so episodes. Then Crition and Dargo will become best friends and talk of how close they have become. Finally, without it being explained on-screen Dargo will then revert back to his "angry" form for a series of episodes and the process repeats itself.
The most frustrating example for me was Kreis. Here is a character that is a meglamaniac throughout season 1. Every time you see him he is portrayed as ruthless and arrogant, without any concern for anyone but himself. Suddenly, after a very interesting season 1 cliff-hanger that promises some difficult choices for Kreis and others, season 2 begins with a preposterous deal between Aeryn and Kreis. Then Kreis, from that point on, is inexplicibly the most pious, self-less character on the program. He, for no apparently logical reason, develops an intensely protective relationship with Talyn immediately in season 2. There is no progression to this point at all for Kreis!
It's as if the latest whims of the writers dictates everything. A writer gets an idea and the characters and arc suddenly do a 180-degree turn until the next whim comes and pulls everything into another direction.
As a Babylon 5 fan who has seen the attention to detail and continuity that a sci-fi series can have I have a hard time overlooking these glaring gaffes in Farscape, a series that aired AFTER Babylon 5. One-off stories don't necessarily bother me, but I hate when the so-called moments of continuity are treated so liberally. Farscape is not a series for nitpickers.
I also find many of the plots to be derivative. As anyone familiar with Trek can tell you, the Farscape creative staff, who seem to go out of their way in knock Star Trek as they praise their own program, borrow a LOT of Star Trek plots and themes.
I do like the production values, though. And when the program isn't being self-conscious with gimmicks and instead focuses on CONSCEQUENCES and bold storytelling (As with Season 1 one as Scorpius appears to the season finale and sections of season 3 and 4) it is a high quality program. I just hate when I get caught up in a storyline and the powers that be decide to, essentially, write off a plot thread rather than put the thought and effort to work things out logically.
