B5-TLT: Not excited yet

[KoshN]

***Okay now you've got me curious I totally have to check that movie out again and see if I can spot Duece. What point on the dvd does he appear at? *** Wait a minute....
now that I think about it I think I do remember seeing him.

He's more or less the speaker for the group of people who are under the influence of the artifact, and who come to the Zocalo table of and stare at the asian guy who's working with Trent.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

He's more or less the speaker for the group of people who are under the influence of the artifact, and who come to the Zocalo table of and stare at the asian guy who's working with Trent.

I believe he stares and says "You're taking too long."

 

[KoshN]

I believe he stares and says "You're taking too long."

Yeah, that was his first line.

 

[for the one]

Yeah, that was his first line.

OOOh wow yeah it has been to long I definetely need to watch it again. Thanks...

 

[Dangerousapple]

I started this thread because I was very interested in TLT - just not very excited. In short, my biggest fear was that the events within TLT would be kind of fun, but rather 'small' character stories. Of course, the (great) characters are what made me watch B5 religiously for 5 years, but that was only one half of the attraction.

To me, Babylon 5's message that an individual can shape the course of history is very powerful. Seeing how the course of history has an impact on the individual is equally appealing.

Judging from the story synopsis of TLT, I was afraid there wouldn't be a big event that impacts history, just an event that impacts a specific character – which left me somewhat unexcited.

Of course I won't go into spoiler territory here - but after reading the CGSociety article my 'excite-o-meter' has risen exponentially, for the abovementioned reasons. I now think TLT has some real potential. And honestly, suddenly I can't wait. I'm still a bit sceptical about the short running time - will 1h 30min be enough to do the story and the universe justice? I guess we'll soon find out!

 

[Jan]

I think that item in the CGSociety article was probably a misprint. Remember, they were originally supposed to be three thirty minute segments but when the Garibaldi segment was pushed to the (potential) second disk, JMS revised the remaining two to still keep the same length (1.5 hours with addtional material to equal 2 hours).

Jan

 

[Chris Springob]

I think that item in the CGSociety article was probably a misprint. Remember, they were originally supposed to be three thirty minute segments but when the Garibaldi segment was pushed to the (potential) second disk, JMS revised the remaining two to still keep the same length (1.5 hours with addtional material to equal 2 hours).

But that's what Dangerousapple said, right? 1hr 30 min = 1.5 hours. Yes, there is the additional half hour of bonus material, but that doesn't count towards the length of the actual story. True, there might be some people confused by the apparent misprint in that article, but I don't think Dangerousapple is one of them.

 

[Jan]

Nope, I completely missed the 1 and read it as 30 minutes (per segment). My bad.

Never mind.....

Jan

 

[Dangerousapple]

True, there might be some people confused by the apparent misprint in that article, but I don't think Dangerousapple is one of them.

True!

One more thing about the running time - I don't understand why TLT is just 1h 30min total. If TLT consisted of one story - that running length would be perfectly acceptable. But that isn't the case - there are two distinct stories. JSM has said the stories will intersect, but they are told as separate entities nonetheless.

So why just 45min per story? Budgetary constraints is the only thing that springs to mind - but that seems incredibly silly.

 

[Chris Springob]

True!
So why just 45min per story? Budgetary constraints is the only thing that springs to mind - but that seems incredibly silly.

Budgetary constraints seem incredibly silly???

Anyway, JMS pitched this whole project as an anthology of short stories about the B5 characters. *Short* stories. The stories each focus on one character---they're small in scope and never intended to be on an epic scale like "In the Begining". What would be the point of giving them something like a feature length of 1h30m (which would be 2 hours if shown on TV with commercials)?

 

[Dangerousapple]

Budgetary constraints seem incredibly silly???

It kinda does. After spending money on building sets, an entire CGI library from scratch, creating special effects, etc. - it doesn’t makes sense to me to say "we're not going to add another 15 minutes to the show because it's too expensive." The cost of those 15 minutes (which could consist of relatively inexpensive non-set piece kind of material) is just a small margin of the whole.

Anyway, JMS pitched this whole project as an anthology of short stories about the B5 characters. *Short* stories. The stories each focus on one character---they're small in scope and never intended to be on an epic scale like "In the Begining". What would be the point of giving them something like a feature length of 1h30m (which would be 2 hours if shown on TV with commercials)?

That's the thing that bothered me about JMS's pitch from the beginning. If this were a TV show, an anthology of short stories would make sense. Shows like Twilight Zone did this to great effect within the TV format. But this isn't TV - it's a movie.

And an anthology of short stories in movie form makes little sense to me. It made sense for a film like Sin City, but that is a different animal. I don't understand why JMS would settle for the small when he can create something a little bigger.

In short (pun intended) JMS's pitch seems very Star Trek: Insurrection to me, while he could also strive to create Wrath of Kahn.

(to be clear: I'm referring to the episodic feel of Insurrection compared to Khan - I'm not implying TLT should necessarily be held against the very high Khan standard.)

 

[GaribaldisHair]

That's the thing that bothered me about JMS's pitch from the beginning. If this were a TV show, an anthology of short stories would make sense. Shows like Twilight Zone did this to great effect within the TV format. But this isn't TV - it's a movie.

No it isn't ... it's a direct to DVD anthology, allowing JMS to tell smaller, more personal stories focussed on one character (or small group of characters) at a time. Whether B5 works in this format or not, time will tell, but JMS pitched this as a collection of short stories set in the B5 universe, and that is exactly what he is delivering.

The fact that some fans may want something bigger and more epic is beside the point, WB asked JMS what he would like to do, he said he wanted to do this, and WB said 'OK, go for it ... here's the money".

 

[RMcD]

I think I agree with you guys about the length.. If TLT is the runaway success we all know it will be, and runs to 50+ installments, then of course it won't matter.

However given what happened with Crusade, LotR, TMoS, and in fact every attempted B5 renaissance since B5 itself, there's got to be at least a finite possibility that the first new B5 in several years might also be the last for a long while.. In which case my first thought was that those minutes are going to go by awfully quickly.

But this time looks much more optimistic. I think that with the DVD sales and the other things happening JMS has the clout now to do something big and ambitious with B5 as and when he's ready to (and I think the recent deaths in the cast are probably a factor there). I think TLT should be seen as more of a placemarker, a side-project, a test of new technology, and a demonstration that B5 is still viable, in preparation for some big stuff that might come later on, if we're lucky..

I also definitely don't want to prejudge TLT at a stage where it's still far too early even to guess at how it's going to turn out..

 

[Sindatur]

And what's to say that the Short stories on the first disk (45 minutes each, which is 3 minutes more than we would get in a hour TV show) won't go hand in hand to tell a bigger story across the two. If that's the case, than you have a 2 hour movie (with about 6 minutes extra) if it had been shown on TV with commercials

 

[Dangerousapple]

No it isn't ... it's a direct to DVD anthology, allowing JMS to tell smaller, more personal stories focussed on one character (or small group of characters) at a time.

Movie / direct to DVD anthology - semantics. One could call Sin City a 'direct to theatrical release anthology of short stories' - and the description would be accurate.

The fact that some fans may want something bigger and more epic is beside the point, WB asked JMS what he would like to do, he said he wanted to do this, and WB said 'OK, go for it ... here's the money".

True, but I still don't get why JMS would like to do TLT - perhaps I will get it upon release - beforehand, I remain somewhat sceptical.

I think I agree with you guys about the length.. If TLT is the runaway success we all know it will be, and runs to 50+ instalments, then of course it won't matter.

However given what happened with Crusade, LotR, TMoS, and in fact every attempted B5 renaissance since B5 itself, there's got to be at least a finite possibility that the first new B5 in several years might also be the last for a long while.. In which case my first thought was that those minutes are going to go by awfully quickly.

My point exactly. I couldn't agree more.

But this time looks much more optimistic.(...) I think TLT should be seen as more of a placemarker, a side-project, a test of new technology, and a demonstration that B5 is still viable, in preparation for some big stuff that might come later on, if we're lucky..

Here's hoping...

I also definitely don't want to prejudge TLT at a stage where it's still far too early even to guess at how it's going to turn out..

Me neither. I'm hoping for the best. Certainly Straczynski is capable of greatness and I have faith in him as an artist. Again, I am *very* interested and I am hoping TLT will rank among the best B5 has delivered. I'm just very sceptical about the short story angle.

And what's to say that the Short stories on the first disk (45 minutes each, which is 3 minutes more than we would get in a hour TV show) won't go hand in hand to tell a bigger story across the two.

Your assertion is very probable - but my point is the following: instead of one big story (which I'd prefer) we're getting a small story and its sequel. It may add up to a big story (which admittedly, would be cool) but two intertwined small stories will probably not have the same impact as one intercut big story.

If that's the case, than you have a 2 hour movie (with about 6 minutes extra) if it had been shown on TV with commercials

A couple of people have commented on the running time including commercials - which is a bit odd to me. TLT isn't premiering on TV, it's going straight to DVD. So why bring up commercials? When X-men: The Last Stand was in production, a lot of fans were lamenting the circa 100 minute running length. I have not come across a single X3 apologist saying "But when the film is shown on TV...". I'm not flaming anybody for mentioning running time including commercials - I just don't understand the logic for bringing it up at all (but perhaps someone can explain it to me).

 

[vacantlook]

True, but I still don't get why JMS would like to do TLT

Perhaps because he's a writer who likes to explore a variety of different storytelling formats.

...So why bring up commercials? ...I just don't understand the logic for bringing it up at all (but perhaps someone can explain it to me).

I can't speak for those who've actually posted about the length, but some of the conversation has read like people complaining that TLT is too short, commenting about the length with commercials seems like a way of trying to demonstrate each of the two segments on this first volume are relatively the same length as an episode of the tv series. Additionally, there is the possibility that TLT will be broadcast on tv, in which case advertisements will be put into the broadcast of course, and so the collective length of the volume of TLT has to be compatible with that.

 

[KoshN]

Perhaps because he's a writer who likes to explore a variety of different storytelling formats.

Perhaps continuation of a series was completely out of the question and this (B5:TLT) is all he could get. Anybody have the link to the post where he talks about Warner Brothers asking him what he'd like to do in the Babylon 5 universe, and his response was what came to be B5:TLT?

Additionally, there is the possibility that TLT will be broadcast on tv, in which case advertisements will be put into the broadcast of course, and so the collective length of the volume of TLT has to be compatible with that.

Not necessarily. It could be edited down for broadcast, and available in unedited form on DVD.

 

[Jan]

Perhaps continuation of a series was completely out of the question and this (B5:TLT) is all he could get. Anybody have the link to the post where he talks about Warner Brothers asking him what he'd like to do in the Babylon 5 universe, and his response was what came to be B5:TLT?

From the transcript of his announcement at SDCC:

Anyway, they call every so often and want to do something with B5 and asked “Do you want to do a feature film?” and I thought about it for a while and I said, “No.” And here’s why: A) I don’t trust movies that much but B) most important, I can’t see the structure of a B5 movie right now as long as long as Andreas and Rick insist on staying dead. As much as B5 was about the stories of Sheridan and Delenn and those guys, there’s the Londo and G’Kar arc that was the clothes line from which I hung all that. And without G’Kar…maybe in a year or two I can start to see the structure of it but right now I can’t do something big right now. I’d love to but I can’t.

WB: “Do you want to do something else? Whatever you want to do, let’s do.”

So I thought about it and I came back to them and said, “Here’s what I’m thinking. When we did Babylon 5, what I liked were the small little stories that we did as ‘B’ plots and as short stories. What if we did a whole bunch of short films? Little mini-movies, each one worked around established B5 characters, not somebody else. One that’s worked around Sheridan, one that’s worked around Delenn, one that’s worked around Lochley or Garibaldi or whoever it is, and put these things out on DVDs and sell them to networks, whatever you want to do, make them short stories. An anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe. They said, “Okay.” We already have a network that wants to carry them, by the way. We’re negotiating with them now. In addition to the network who wants to broadcast them, put them on DVD, three per DVD and sell them and build up an inventory of these: Babylon 5: the Lost Tales, basing a lot of them on stories I had for the series but never had a chance to actually put into gear-a bunch of different stories I never had time to produce.

No idea when the above meeting(s) with WB took place but I can tell you without question that in June and July he was still affected by the loss of Andreas.

Jan

 

[Boxie]

without question that in June and July he was still affected by the loss of Andreas.

It certainly sounded that way, didn't it.....

 

[RMcD]

So I thought about it and I came back to them and said, “Here’s what I’m thinking. When we did Babylon 5, what I liked were the small little stories that we did as ‘B’ plots and as short stories. What if we did a whole bunch of short films? Little mini-movies, each one worked around established B5 characters, not somebody else. One that’s worked around Sheridan, one that’s worked around Delenn, one that’s worked around Lochley or Garibaldi or whoever it is, and put these things out on DVDs and sell them to networks, whatever you want to do, make them short stories. An anthology show set in the Babylon 5 universe.

Here's a thought. The way he worded the above is really quite interesting if you read it carefully. Sometimes JMS does what he does to please the fans. But it seems to me like what he's really primarily got in mind with doing TLT is giving something back to the B5 cast, spotlighting each one in turn. I'm sure he feels much closer to them on a personal level than he does to us, and giving as many of them as possible a headlining gig seems like a nice way to reward them all individually (something he's been saying he wanted to do for a while).