Babylon 5 - Sleeping in Light - The End

[thelzdking]

As some of you may know I have introduced my friend, known here as Londo Benlari to B5, and tonight we will complete the last six episodes - the first time he will see the conclusion to the five-year arc.

It will be the fifth or sixth time I have seen it, and it got me thinking about final episodes. 'Sleeping in Light' is (aside from Berserk and Neon Genesis Evangelion, which as anime are both very different from the type of show I'm talking about) the only finale I've ever seen that I feel real does justice to the show as a whole. The finales of The Wire, Deep Space Nine, Rome et al. while good, felt, to me, slightly underwhelming or anti-climactic.

I think that one of B5's huge strengths is that the final episode manages to feel like a climax, despite it taking place years (in the arc) after the fact.

What do others feel about the Sleeping in Light as a 'finale' to B5's arc rather than just an epilogue or final episode?

 

[KoshFan]

Other than the continuity glitches necessary due to making the ep at the end of season 4, SiL's a thing of perfect beauty.

And while I can't agree with you on the Wire -- part of the point is that everything kept going just the same -- and have a great deal of love for the Buffy finale, I do agree that SiL is probably the best finale to a show that I've ever seen.

 

[thelzdking]

My problem with The Wire finale wasn't the fact that nothing really changed - Cheese's 'here, today' speech is one of the best parts - because, as you say, that is the point. It's just felt underwhelming in some unquantifiable way. I find that the finale of the third season says much the same things as the fifth season's, but with more impact.

But anyway, yes, the continuity errors are a bit jarring, but they're minor, and I'm happy to deal with them because it means we have Ivanova, and her abscence would have been worse.

 

[KoshFan]

At the risk of turning this into a "Wire" thread -- wasn't that kind of the point? "Things aren't actually getting any better, folks." But the Baltimore montage was pretty sweet, and seeing Michael with a shotgun was kind of cool.

Right with you on Ivanova. I watched it in episode order (I still haven't seen A Call to Arms or Crusade), and seeing her again was like welcoming back a very old friend. "Hey, it's Ivanova! How have you been?"

 

[dreamer]

It's pure pain for me to watch the last episode - oftentimes I plain skip it since I just cry like a little girl.

Best goddamn finale I've ever seen.

 

[Ranger1]

It's pure pain for me to watch the last episode - oftentimes I plain skip it since I just cry like a little girl.

Best goddamn finale I've ever seen.

it's so beautiful, susan accepting the position with the rangers, is so similar to delenn's final scene, they both do these things so they can be "near" those they love. i cry every time.

just going back the wire, i don't watch the last episode anymore, dookie shooting up physically hurts me, so once was more than enough.

 

[Alexa]

It`s a wonderful finale, and I cry every frickin` time I watch it. The only series finale that came close to SIL was Not To Be, the series finale of Highlander.

 

[Infested Londo]

Um... Enlighten me - What finale glitches?

 

[KoshFan]

The main glitch is that Franklin has to check to see if Garibaldi actually wants to come -- filmed at the end of season 4, there was still a lot of tension between Garibaldi and Sheridan.

There might be one or two more, but I can't remember them.

 

[Infested Londo]

Oh, well I always assumed there was something else happening there, in the 10 year gap. And anyway, I don't think JMS would've made that big of a glitch. He's known what was going to happen in the 10 year gap even before filming season 5, and he wouldn't have made any changes in the tension between Garibaldy and Sheridan during season 5 because he knew he had SIL as the finale...

 

[KoshFan]

Oh, well, it's easy enough to fan-wank another problem into the 20 years; my own personal take is that Garibaldi and Sheridan have different approaches to parenting, and got into a fight over how Sheridan's raising David.

But when JMS didn't know he was going to get Season 5, he knew he had alude to the differences between the two men somehow. Because while his outline did prevail usually, reality trumped it, and I'm pretty sure this was one of those times. Not a glitch at all, he did it quite intentionally when he though he wouldn't have a chance to have Sheridan and Garibaldi speak between Sheridan's rescue and SiL.

I've been over the SiL page on the Lurker's Guide several times now, and I could have sworn he explained it all, but it seems that page has been altered since last I looked. For one thing, the explanation of the duck at the top of the page is gone.

 

[Infested Londo]

So you're saying JMS thought they wouldn't have time to patch things up in 10 years? And again, if so, why did he clear the air between them during the 5th season? Obviously he remembered the bad blood between them in SiL...

Look, I'm not one of those crazy fans who can't believe JMS is capable of making a mistake - He is, and he did - But I don't think this is one of them, nor do I recognize any other glitches caused by SiL being filmed at the end of S4.

 

[Infested Londo]

Earlier I referred to the gap as "10 years"... Obviously I meant "20 years". My glitch

 

[KoshFan]

So you're saying JMS thought they wouldn't have time to patch things up in 10 years? And again, if so, why did he clear the air between them during the 5th season? Obviously he remembered the bad blood between them in SiL...

Look, I'm not one of those crazy fans who can't believe JMS is capable of making a mistake - He is, and he did - But I don't think this is one of them, nor do I recognize any other glitches caused by SiL being filmed at the end of S4.

This debate probably isn't worth losing any sleep over... but I'm still convinced I saw something somewhere where JMS said that's why the Franklin/Garibaldi exchange is in there.

Again, by the dictates of the story, you're absolutely right. But SiL was filmed on the assumption that there would be no season 5. As far as I can recall, after Sheridan's rescue he and Garibaldi don't get any screen time together before the finale -- in other words, where SiL would have aired if there had been no continuation. So while logically you're quite correct, obviously they could have talked things through in the ensuing decades. But it would have been even weirder for audiences to go from "Garibaldi, I was gonna kick your ass!" to lifelong friends without something being said to explain it. You know how us fans like to pick stuff apart...

However, it would be equally illogical for them to not talk all through Season 5. JMS was not such a slave to continuity that he'd have them fight all year just to maintain one line in the finale. Which is why they do indeed reconnect -- although if you note, their S5 relationship is a bit rougher.

And once SiL was filmed, they didn't have the time/money to go back and change it (notice JMS never managed to do the Soviet revisionism he wanted and re-film Beth Toussant's Anna with Melissa Gilbert instead; an even more glaring continuity error; again no money or time). So the season-four relevance of the exchange was no longer necessary but was still there.

Hence, glitch.

A perhaps more unfortunate one is actually in "Deconstruction of Falling Stars" -- they'd paid Claudia for a full season, and since SiL was technically a fourth-season ep, they couldn't have her in Deconstruction. So in a way the biggest glitch caused by SiL aired a year before the episode did.

 

[Jan]

I've been over the SiL page on the Lurker's Guide several times now, and I could have sworn he explained it all, but it seems that page has been altered since last I looked. For one thing, the explanation of the duck at the top of the page is gone.

If this is the same page you were on, it's still there. Follow the link directly above the "JMS Speaks" section.

ETA: Never mind. The link's broken.

Jan

 

[Infested Londo]

I don't think not having her in deconstructions is a glitch... There could be other reasons for whateverhisnameis to not want to bring her back. Maybe the fact she was a telepath? I don't know. JMS could've come up with all sorts of crap, and in any way I don't think it's relevant.

Hey, the fact they're being filmed by a guy with a camera is somewhat of a glitch as well, so... You know

I think we both stated our opinions.

BTW, what you said about their relationship being a bit "harder" in S5 is correct - Actually, I watched S5 and SiL unaware of the fact SiL was filmed for S4. And when Garibaldi said that line, my response was "huh, so there WAS something going on underneath between them all season"...

So you could say the glitch is not necessarily in the fact SiL was filmed in the end of S4, but in the fact that you fans knew about it

 

[Sindatur]

I do remember this being addressed, I kinda thought it was addressed in one of the books.

But, yea, as strenuous as the relationship was in S5, it could've always fell apart again

 

[KoshFan]

ETA: Never mind. The link's broken.

That's what I meant. Thank goodness I remember it.

So you could say the glitch is not necessarily in the fact SiL was filmed in the end of S4, but in the fact that you fans knew about it

Heh. Indeed. Wouldn't be the first time seeing a bit too much beyond the curtain has hampered a performance.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

I'm one of those people who didn't like "Sleeping In Light" - at first, anyway. I've grown to see the error of my ways.

About two years ago, I decided to introduce my older kids to B5, so we sat down and watched all the shows in subjective chronological order (Including putting "Day of the Dead" in its right location in S5), and I have to say it kind of moved me.

As I said, I didn't like "Sleeping in Light" back in '99. It was too intimate for me, to quiet and close to be following the sturm und drang of the last third of S5, it felt like the show had just run out of steam. Watching it again didn't improve it for me any.

However, watching it after everything else - the show, the movies, Rangers, Crusade, Lost Tales, "Beginning", it picked up a lot of resonance for me, it really moved me. It took me nearly a decade to get what JMS was going for with that episode, but when I finally was able to connect with it, it moved me in ways no other part of the franchise did. It was beautiful, and poignient, and it made me ache for all the cool stuff we were prevented from seeing.

 

[benisjamin33]

It seems that all of you have watched this show many times through, I just recently finished watching all of series, and I got to say I was extremely dissappointed with the last episode. I felt like there was something missing between "Objects At Rest" and "Sleeping In Light". I felt like they just addresssed all these new problems and then they just ended it. Lienner running of, Michael and Litta vs Psi Core, the pot Londo gave to Sheridan for his kid, G'Kar and Litta's adventure, and the Darkh on Centurie Prime. Now a couple of these we can solve are self with the flash forwards, like Delenn and Sherdian escaping from Centurie Prime with their son, and some of the books talking about Londos, but what about Lienner and the Psi Core problem? All the movies address new issues, except for "The Beginning", and it doesn't seem like there is any books that fill in these gaps. I guess I am more dissappointed not knowing what happened to one of my favorite characters in Lienner, and ticked that I couldn't see the badassness that would have been the Telepathy War.