"Brit"- comment from JMS

[Bester]

\"Brit\"- comment from JMS

There is an interesting argument going on between jms and a "Paul Harper" here.

Mr Harper is quite obviously an ignorant idiot, but is jms justified in making this comment?....

You're not making sense. Even for a Brit

It sounds to me like he's trying to fight racism with racism. I'm sad to say this, but jms has lost some of my respect for making this comment.

Edited title. Markas

 

[vacantlook]

Re: Racist comment from jms

I was unaware that there was only one race of people currently living in Britain.

 

[Jan]

Re: Racist comment from jms

For the record, PH has been a major troll for some time now, well-known for American bashing and making personal comments about the regular RASTB5M posters. Then there's this partial post from JMS that hasn't arrived at JMSNews.com yet:

First, for me, after spending fifteen years online extolling my love of
all things British, to have one line said primarily in humor as some
kind of condemnation of Britain, to have it taken as ANYTHING other
than a joke, has to be one of the most astonishing leaps in logic in
centuries.

Unless you're familiar with *all* of the situation, perhaps it's best not to judge?

Jan

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

I was unaware that there was only one race of people currently living in Britain.

Race

2. A group of people united or classified together on the basis of common history, nationality, or geographic distribution: the German race.

Are you now going to tell me that there is more than one race in Germany?

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

For the record, PH has been a major troll for some time now, well-known for American bashing and making personal comments about the regular RASTB5M posters. Then there's this partial post from JMS that hasn't arrived at JMSNews.com yet:

First, for me, after spending fifteen years online extolling my love of
all things British, to have one line said primarily in humor as some
kind of condemnation of Britain, to have it taken as ANYTHING other
than a joke, has to be one of the most astonishing leaps in logic in
centuries.

Unless you're familiar with *all* of the situation, perhaps it's best not to judge?

Jan

Does this really justify his comment?

I am related to Americans. So, will you forgive me if I say that Americans are idiots?

Sure, there is a difference between a racist (which I am sure jms is NOT) and a racist comment (which I am sure he DID make). Personally, I despise both.

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Yeah, his comment was off the cuff, but justifable and human given the kind of bloke he was dealing with.

I also loved the way JMS used Google to trash him and remind him of his past comments in the same vein.

If this guy is a troll, then i doubt he will care. People seem to expect better behaviour of 'online celebs' than they allow themselves to get away with. JMS rightly decrided this as hypocrasy.

And let's face it, we are not all that rational ourselves. (Thatcher elected 3 times in a row, then blair, ermm Hello?)

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

I can understand that he may have meant this as a light-hearted comment, but when dealing with a black-and-white medium (with which you cannot verbally emphasise your intent) I believe that you should be more cautious when making such generalisations.

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

And let's face it, we are not all that rational ourselves. (Thatcher elected 3 times in a row, then blair, ermm Hello?)

Another generalisation? I didn't vote for Thatcher or Blair, I'll have you know

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Agreed on that. No smileys icons on usegroups!

But the error was human, and that's all he is. A few people out there tend to forget this.

In fairness, his comments on the British class system are still very much justifiable, I see it every day in the different parts of London where i work (St James) and live (Tooting). It really sucks, and arguably holds us back.

America suffers from a class system, but it does not create the same boundaries.

If a Brit made that comment, no-one would have blinked. I guess as JMS mentioned he's asimilated so much of UK culture he kind of feels one of us. I've noticed it with Americans who have lived in the Uk for a while. I like it.

Anyway, I wish folks like that guy on the mod'ed group would leave him alone, so he could get on with writing a B5 movie or a Star Wars TV show or something!!!!

That's worth harrasing him about, not some comment made off the cuff.

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

I wouldn't dream of harrasing him. I just thought it was weird for him to make such a comment. It's not like him.

 

[ARK1701]

Re: Racist comment from jms

I can understand that he may have meant this as a light-hearted comment, but when dealing with a black-and-white medium (with which you cannot verbally emphasise your intent) I believe that you should be more cautious when making such generalisations.

Well said. I'd say it was just a poor choice of words.

And as Jan said we all should read the "whole story" first. Paul is using one poorly made comment by JMS to turn everyone who was not on *his side* of his original posts about JMS not having the right the sell his property, because frankly from where I stand he had lost that battle even before JMS made his first reply. So he's playing on other people's emotions (in this case our British friends), to gain some assemblance of victory over JMS.

Poor choice of words? I'd have to say yes. But JMS a racist? No bloodly way.

I personally feel the worst thing JMS did to you my British friends is kill off Marcus and replace him with Byron.

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: Racist comment from jms

What gets me is that you and I can write things like this without it being noticed, but JMS has every vowel and syllable scrutinised.

Price you pay for being a popular writer I guess, but it sucks non the less.

 

[ARK1701]

Re: Racist comment from jms

you and I can write things like this without it being noticed

Oh, totally! It's a complete BS double standard.

 

[Jan]

Re: Racist comment from jms

What gets me is that you and I can write things like this without it being noticed, but JMS has every vowel and syllable scrutinised.

Exactly. Not to mention that everything is archived automatically and very publicly so that nobody even has to go to the trouble of Googling. In fact when somebody 'spoofed' JMS's address a couple of times a few months back, DougO over at JMSNews.com had to manually screen the posts showing up to ensure that they really were JMS's. There'd have been a huge uproar if those 'cannibal cooking' posts had been allowed to show up for any length of time.

Jan

 

[ARK1701]

Re: Racist comment from jms

It must be great having to live your life in a "glass house" where people can see, point, and prod everything about about you. So if you don't *dot* every "i" and *cross* every "t", LOOK OUT!

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Well, I don't even pretend to be as well educated or knowledgeable as jms. So when he makes a comment which I feel is wrong I just have to say something. Otherwise, I bow to his greater wisdom

 

[Jan]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Well, I don't even pretend to be as well educated or knowledgeable as jms. So when he makes a comment which I feel is wrong I just have to say something. Otherwise, I bow to his greater wisdom

Perhaps it should have been posted it to the moderated newsgroup so that he'd see it and be able to respond, though?

One of the things that bugs me about this is that PH deliberately chose to use the technically accurate but far more inflammatory term 'racist' when the more commonly accepted term would have been 'nationalist'. Like I said, a troll. Reasonably well-spoken but that doesn't change the fact.

Jan

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Yeah, he was just out to enjoy is 30 seconds of Internet fame. When I was a student, I was out drinking and chasing skirt, not stuck in a computer lab getting into arguments with my people on the net. I can do that now i've got a proper job..

I do sometimes wonder why JMS does not use a more advanced medium than a newsgroup, a BBS or something. Then issues like this could be avoided...

 

[Chilli]

Re: Racist comment from jms

His comments were a bit "out of line" there .. but I think that assuming JMS is "racist" against brits is a far throw. Mostly seems to me that he was so pissed that he was forgetting that he was on a very public and watched place. His works and his usual talk should be enough of an indication that he doesn't truely hate Brits.

That being said, I do think he got it wrong though. I don't think that PH's stupid attitude there had much to do with the class system thingy. It's more the attitude that artists are "supposed to suffer" to be true artists .. something very old .. and not really a british invention. More a general European thing I would say. We definitely have the attitude thingy here in Austria too, that artists are "sell-outs" as soon as they manage to make a living.

 

[Bester]

Re: Racist comment from jms

Perhaps it should have been posted it to the moderated newsgroup so that he'd see it and be able to respond, though?

I would have done, if not for my ignorance at how the newsgroups work (which explains why the link in my original post refers to jmsnews.com).