BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARNED)

[Mike G]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

To clarify earlier, Lucy Lawless is the number 3. Sharon is number 8. 6 is six. I don't belive we know the other cylons numbers. The others are usually called:
Leobon - see above
Simon - The doctor
Doral - They guy from the pilot who was the photographer, who usually wears red suits.

 

[Alluveal]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Right on, thanks Mike. I'd love to know what model Leobon, Simon and Doral are. Also the preacher.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Holy crap that was awesome!

It really seemed kind of unnecessary to make it a year as well, they could've easily made it a month or so and had the same effect.

Oh no, a year makes the Cylons' return that much more devastating. After a month people are still thinking maybe they'll come, etc. But after a year even Adama and Ty assumed they were finished with the Cylons.

Also not sure what to make of the Cylons. What was the point in saying they were giving up on fighting the humans and then coming and occupying them, and why was one of them the six model that was supposedly leading the Cylon resistance movement against the destruction of the remaining humans?

A mystery left for season 3, obviously, but we can speculate given what info we have.

It seems as if the Cylons have abandoned their mission to destroy humanity. This is a result of the "war heroes." Perhaps in the interest of intra-Cylon peace, they decided to compromise.
They still despise humans, so perhaps they want to use them as slave labor and/or, since they see humans as inherently destructive, they ultimately want to make sure that they are never powerful again.

The crucial element here is what the current state of the Cylons' religious beliefs is. Dean Stockwell (a brilliant casting choice!) said that the Cylons abandoned God. We need to see how true that is and what the consequences are.

(this was written after I saw vacantlook's similar post on the subject)

I know Dr. Franklin doesn't think it's funny to space people, but I think I would laugh.

Apparently Roselyn agrees with you. She's come to enjoy that order.

The only thing I can imagine is that it really is a dream and by the end of the season premiere it will be shown as thus.

If that happens, I may quit watching. I've come to respect this show because, like Babylon 5, they don't fuck around like that. When people die, they stay dead, and when people screw up, things are actually screwed up! No "reset button," no interchangeable seasons or episodes, nothing.

When people are living the kind of hectic, dangerous lives these people are, everything moves faster. Sure, to us the idea of a guy "accidentally" beating the living hell out of a woman than marrying her and knocking her up in the space of a year is absurd, but refugees occupied solely with survival live at a much faster pace. They don't have time for the kind of navel-gazing introspection and "finding myself" bullshit that we luxuriate in.

Doral - They guy from the pilot who was the photographer, who usually wears red suits.

Just to get our teminology straight- this is the same one that came in with 6 and Sharon at the very end, to whom Balter surrendered, yes?
I call him the Kevin Spacey cylon.

 

[darth_librarian]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

When people are living the kind of hectic, dangerous lives these people are, everything moves faster. Sure, to us the idea of a guy "accidentally" beating the living hell out of a woman than marrying her and knocking her up in the space of a year is absurd, but refugees occupied solely with survival live at a much faster pace. They don't have time for the kind of navel-gazing introspection and "finding myself" bullshit that we luxuriate in.

You've clearly never been to South London... but the point is well made...

 

[Sindatur]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

It's also interesting from another point of view that they pointed out the antibiotics are exhausted, other than a bare minimum of stash kept for the military. I wonder what else they may have run out of in the way of supplies, such as food or water. We haven't been shown what sustenance "New Caprica" provides. And how about fuel for the fleet?

Have the Cyclons actually "saved" them from dying of lack of supplies?

Callie clearly doesn't blame the chief, and is clearly in love with him, so, it doesn't seem so off base that Chief married her and got her pregnant once he got over blaming himself.

I would say the Cylons motives are most definitely up in the air. Maybe the ruthless Cylons did indeed come to a new ideology, and maybe it's the Cylon Resistance we are seeing invading New Caprica? Maybe their mission also has changed. Now that a year has passed, what about Sharon's baby?

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Now that a year has passed, what about Sharon's baby?

What about her? They did show her, I think, or at least that she was still with her adoptive mother, who was assisting Roselyn as teacher.

The real question is: what about Sharon herself? She's convinced the humans killed her baby, she gives up on Helo and then a year passes... now what? What did they do with her? I would think they figured they didn't need her anymore- did they space her?

My guess right now about the Cylons' interest in Starbuck is that her eggs were used in some creepy fashion...

 

[Sindatur]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Now that a year has passed, what about Sharon's baby?

What about her?

Sorry, I meant she is likely to be more recognizable as a Cylon now by other Cylons, if they have a "collective hive mind" kind of thing, they may find her easily.

 

[Alluveal]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

The baby didn't exactly look like one that would be a year old, though.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Spoilers. Ron Moore interview with ScifiWire about the Season Finale

http://www.scifi.com/scifiwire/index.php?category=0&id=34886

 

[vacantlook]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Just to get our teminology straight- this is the same one that came in with 6 and Sharon at the very end, to whom Balter surrendered, yes?
I call him the Kevin Spacey cylon.

Yes, Doral was the guy who came in with Six and Sharon at the end to confront Baltar.

The real question is: what about Sharon herself? She's convinced the humans killed her baby, she gives up on Helo and then a year passes... now what? What did they do with her? I would think they figured they didn't need her anymore- did they space her?

My guess is that they've still got Sharon all locked up in her cell, and that that's probably why Helo is still on the Galactica: that he's refused to go to start a New Caprica life because he's refusing to give up on Sharon.

 

[vacantlook]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Moore in that interview does kind of make it sound as if it is being written by whim -- whatever happens to sound fun to write about at the moment. Makes me less sure about the whole statement that the Cylons have a plan being something that's actually already thought out.

 

[Mike G]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Just to get our teminology straight- this is the same one that came in with 6 and Sharon at the very end, to whom Balter surrendered, yes?
I call him the Kevin Spacey cylon.

Yes. On televisionwithoutpity.com they call him Leisure Suit Larry. Or Poor Man's Kevin Spacey.

 

[Recoil]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

OK Here is my review of the finale now that I have had some time to digest it.

Good Points:

I know people have commented against this part of the story above, but I clearly had a different opinion of it. I think the scene with the Chief and Callie was one of the best love scenes I have witnessed in a while, and as a result it did not surprise me one bit to see a year later she was pregnant with his child. I guess I had always felt that Callie had a thing for the Chief even back when he was with Sharon (pre-Cylon discovery). The scene was great. You have the Cheif absolutely mortified about facing her for the first time after he beating her senseless after she woke him from a nightmare. He has seen consolers and even the Priest about the incident. He clearly did not have an explation and didn't know what to say. He just started to say "I can never ask you to forgive me for..." and she didn't even let him finish the sentance when she replied she forgave him. I thought it was a great moment, and they did a good job with the characters in the last two seasons leading them to that.

The election was great. I loved that they dealth with Roslin rigging the vote, and Adama confronting her. Everything he said there was true. That being said, when we all see the final result of that decision, does it make it the right one or the wrong one? Thats the great thing about this show. In the moment she made the right moral decision even though her instinct told her (correctly) that the HUMAN RACE would pay the price for that eventually. So in one hand you have a decision that is best for the human race, but sacrifices freedom and everyone's rights. Or you go the other way, people have their freedom (for a bit) and are lead to turmoil. For my money, I think she made the wrong call, given her knowledge of Baltar and Six. But thats a hard issue.

I loved that they jumped ahead a year. At first it took me totally by surprise when it said "One Year Later" and they mentioned they have been on the planet longer than they were on the run. It did take a while for that to sink in. But I think the reasoning for it is great. Most episodes with the Cylons involved have been with them on the run. They did need to shake things up a bit. Having everyone settle down, get comfortable, then have the Cylons march in will make for an interesting season. I also don't think we missed much in that time frame. "Little House on the Prarie" was about the right analogy. We saw in the few minutes we saw all we needed to see. Key characters married and on with their lives. Life on the new planet being very rough and frontierish. The human race getting complacient and forgetting they were almost wiped out, to the point where they practically mothball their only defense.

I also liked the fact that the Preacher said the Cylons had changed their minds about humanity and that the whole "God" thing was in question. Just shows how like humanity they have become.

Finally Baltar is a true bad guy. I dont feel sorry for him one bit. His handling of the Cloud 9 disaster was pitiful for a new President in office. He is completely incompetent and in over his head. He is also very weak as was demonstrated by his condition when we see him a year later. He should be more interesting next season.

Bad Points:

Not many.

I didn't like the Starbuck-drunk-with-boyfriend-when-Apollo-walks-in scene. Yea, it set up future tension between Apollo and Starbuck (like there hasn't been enough of that already) but I don't think that even Starbuck would be that rude to a friend. That scene really came across as distasteful. I'm sure that was the intent, I guess I didn't totally buy it though.

I'm also not completely sure I bought how everyone was so willing to forget about the Cylons and try to settle the new planet and abandon the fleet. No Viper Pilots. No defense. Empty ships. I don't care how bad living conditions were on some ships. If I were a military officer and had gone through what they did, I wouldn't just move down. A state of readiness would always be needed. Hell, given what life was looking like down there, I'd rather stay on the ship anyway. After 1 year Starbuck's "House" was a freain Tent! Didn't buy that part of it either.

Unanswered questions:

What happened to Tom Zarek? (sp?) Was he on Cloud Nine when it exploded?

Sharon. Where is she?

The Cylon occupation. Why would they say they are through with humanity then come in and occupy us when the find us? Were the "war heroes" overthrown? Did they fall out of favor? Or did they just decide its best to protect us or use us as slave labor? Maybe keep us beat down so we can't cause more trouble?

Why did Six destroy Cloud 9? Was it so someday the Cylons would find where the humans have settled? Some may consider this obvious but to me, I still thought there was more to it than that.

Was the Six we saw the original Caprica "War Hero" Six, or the Six who destroyed Cloud 9? In either case, she seemed to look at Baltar with additional meaning and emotion. My first reaction is War Hero Six. However its possible its Cloud 9 Six, and if it is, then you would think that she could have told the Cylons where the fleet was all this time. However its likely that the Cylons were too far away to resurrect her, and it is really War Hero Six.

Lots of possibilities for Season 3. Not entirely sure I like the stage they have set, but its different from the stage we have had the previous 2 seasons, so change is a good thing.

I also remembered Alias's Season 2 finale and saw the parallel. Considering that was the very LAST time Alias was a good show....lets pray BSG fares better!

 

[The Juche Warrior]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Why did Six destroy Cloud 9? Was it so someday the Cylons would find where the humans have settled? Some may consider this obvious but to me, I still thought there was more to it than that.

Well, what was the first thing she wanted to do after she broke out? Kill herself. Being able to kill Cain first, and then hide out with the peaceniks just delayed the inevitable. She wanted the resurrection ship to blow up because she didn't wan to be downloaded into a new body. The amount of pain you can see when she and Baltar are having sex...I think it's pretty clear it was a suicide.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

I'm also not completely sure I bought how everyone was so willing to forget about the Cylons and try to settle the new planet and abandon the fleet. No Viper Pilots. No defense. Empty ships. I don't care how bad living conditions were on some ships. If I were a military officer and had gone through what they did, I wouldn't just move down. A state of readiness would always be needed. Hell, given what life was looking like down there, I'd rather stay on the ship anyway. After 1 year Starbuck's "House" was a freain Tent! Didn't buy that part of it either.

I imagine it takes hundreds or thousands of people to keep two Battlestars, all those Vipers and the accompanying equipment running. Also, the people running them, especially the technicians, woiuld be most qualified (possibly the only ones qualified) to take care of equipment on the planet. The Chief, for example, can't be the head of the union of workers running the machines and maintaining the Vipers.

Furthermore, even with their defenses at max, they couldn't defend against a Cylon attack. The only way they were able to survive was through evasion. If the Cylons find them and want to wipe them out, they would, regardless of how strong the humans' fleet was.

Was the Six we saw the original Caprica "War Hero" Six, or the Six who destroyed Cloud 9? In either case, she seemed to look at Baltar with additional meaning and emotion. My first reaction is War Hero Six. However its possible its Cloud 9 Six, and if it is, then you would think that she could have told the Cylons where the fleet was all this time. However its likely that the Cylons were too far away to resurrect her, and it is really War Hero Six.

Definitely War Hero Six. She had the look in her eyes of a cylon who had Balter in her head.

 

[Boxie]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

I was sure it was Caprica Six, too. I might be a little confused, but can there be another Six now? Given the destruction of the resurrection ship, can Gina or any other Six come back?

 

[Decal]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Well going devil advocate, but Nuke six. For Kevin Spacey Cylon when he said they found the colonials from the nuke going off, he glanced at the Six there.

 

[Almir]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

... and maybe it's the Cylon Resistance we are seeing invading New Caprica? Maybe their mission also has changed. Now that a year has passed, what about Sharon's baby?

I think you hit the bull's eye with this view.
It's exactly what I yhink

 

[AntonyF]

BSG found the pan and went down it. I'm not watching anymore. Maybe on DVD later.

 

[Recoil]

Re: BSG Season 2 Finale (SPOILER CONTENT - BE WARN

Seriously? You were always singing the praises of this show. Where did it lose you?