Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[GKarsEye]

That Buffy-Riley sex romp episode -- "Were The Wild Things Are" -- was written specifically so that Buffy wouldn't have much to do in the episode as SMG was a might bit busy filming something else at the same time. I find it to be a rather uninteresting episode.

Um... ok... here's how you do that:

Buffy is visiting one of her parents.

or

Buffy has some spell/illness. Hell, it would have been funny just to do an episode where Buffy gets the flu or something, and everyone else has to deal with some threat without her.
Okay maybe that would be a re-tread of how season 3 began when they were all fighting vampires when she ran away, but things have changed since then and I'm sure they could whip up some other threat.

So maybe the Gellar thing was one reason the ep was written that way, but it seems like the bigger factor was that they wanted to explore the sexual relationships of the various characters in a novel way, which would be a great idea, but given how this show repeatedly fails at handling the topic, it was doomed to fail.

Now here's where I get to appear dense: by this point, are Willow and Tara in full-blown gay love affair mode? Or are we gonna get some big deal "first time" scene? I'm hoping not, and they just let it simmer in the background, with maybe just a little moment where it hits Buffy and Xander what's going on exactly.

Giles' (obviously lip-synched) singing voice sounds like Donovan.

I'm now listening to The Velvet Underground's Loaded album because Oz found it Giles' record collection that one time.

 

[vacantlook]

Now here's where I get to appear dense: by this point, are Willow and Tara in full-blown gay love affair mode? Or are we gonna get some big deal "first time" scene? I'm hoping not, and they just let it simmer in the background, with maybe just a little moment where it hits Buffy and Xander what's going on exactly.

Yes, Willow and Tara are in full-on mode. For a good long bit of the show, they use the two of them doing magic spells as a metaphor for the two of them having sex, with the first all-the-way moment being when the two of them did that spell to figure out what was wrong with Buffy when Faith was possessing her, which is why Willow's actions during that spellcasting were as specifically as orgasmic-ish as they were. The first time we viewers see Willow and Tara kiss on-screen, it's in a rather non-sexual manner, and it is something Joss pretty much told the network, "This is how it's gonna be for a very specific reason, and I'm not going to change it, so deal with it."

 

[GKarsEye]

To the credit of the show, I feel it doesn't count as a real relationship until her friends acknowledge it as such. Now, doing the whole gay thing subtle is cool and all, but certainly some character is going to say something about it, otherwise it would be a bit too subtle- as in ridiculous. Especially Xander, who both knows her whole life and was the subject of her affections. Though of course they could handle it "off-screen" I suppose... or could have... whatever, I'm really not being picky about it, just observing.

Oh, in case you were wondering if I notice little but important things... yes, I heard Faith tell Buffy "little sis is coming" in the dream/vision.

At this point I am in fact alternating between Angel and Buffy (though not necessarily one-to-one, depending on my mood and whatever else I'm doing), but I'm watching the Buffy episodes with full (or almost-full) attention, while Angel is sometimes accompanied with other activities.

 

[vacantlook]

To the credit of the show, I feel it doesn't count as a real relationship until her friends acknowledge it as such. Now, doing the whole gay thing subtle is cool and all, but certainly some character is going to say something about it, otherwise it would be a bit too subtle- as in ridiculous. Especially Xander, who both knows her whole life and was the subject of her affections. Though of course they could handle it "off-screen" I suppose... or could have... whatever, I'm really not being picky about it, just observing.

Oh, on that, Buffy and Xander will learn about Willow and Tara's relationship by the end of the season.

 

[GKarsEye]

Buffy episode: Oz returns
Angel episode: Buffy chases Faith to L.A.

A hell of a double-shot that share a theme about what happens when someone from you past you still care about comes storming back into your life after you've started to move on.

This stuff had personal resonance for me, and therefore this was the first time I had some genuine emotional effect from these shows (and the first time the relationship crap actually meant something). Really well done.

(and yes Buffy finds about Willow and Tara. Can't wait for Xander's reaction)

Angel telling off Buffy at the end was just great. One line from the Buffy episode summed it all up "either way, someone will get hurt." I have given this advice. I have lived it. Like I said, personal resonance.

*the not-so-mighty GKE tops off box of Kleenex and bottle of Glenlivet*

I also figured out why fanboys love Willow- not just because she's a skinny cute geeky redhead, but because when she cries it makes you wanna smush your left ventricle with a muddler. But just 'cause I get it doesn't mean I share it- right now, my heart belongs to Anya.

 

[KoshFan]

That Buffy-Riley sex romp episode -- "Were The Wild Things Are" -- was written specifically so that Buffy wouldn't have much to do in the episode as SMG was a might bit busy filming something else at the same time. I find it to be a rather uninteresting episode.

I find the sex fairly uninteresting, but I find other quite interesting things in that episode... a certain line of Spike's, for instance, and Anya's growth.

Giles' (obviously lip-synched) singing voice sounds like Donovan.

Why is it obviously lip-synched? Tony Head's a singer, and I know he sang his own lines there; did they just do a bad editing job that I've forgotten?

 

[GKarsEye]

I find the sex fairly uninteresting, but I find other quite interesting things in that episode... a certain line of Spike's, for instance, and Anya's growth.

We all saw the episode already, you can just talk about stuff straight-out.

Why is it obviously lip-synched? Tony Head's a singer, and I know he sang his own lines there; did they just do a bad editing job that I've forgotten?

Maybe bad editing, but could also be lip-synched against his own voice. But then this show has never been able to connect the visual to the sound of any music. But I didn't know the dude sang- not bad.

 

[GKarsEye]

FYI:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_by_five

Five by five is the best of 25 possible subjective responses used to describe the quality of communications. As receiving stations move away from an analog radio transmitting site, the signal strength decreases gradually while noise levels increase. The signal becomes increasingly difficult to understand until it can no longer be heard as anything other than static.

In voice procedure (the techniques used to facilitate spoken communication over two-way radios) a transmitting station may request a report on the subjective quality of signal they are broadcasting. In the military of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) countries, and other organizations, the signal quality is reported on two scales; the first is for signal strength, and the second for signal clarity. Both these scales range from one to five, where one is the worst and five is the best. The listening station reports these numbers separated with the word "by". Five by five therefore means a signal that has excellent strength and perfect clarity — the most understandable signal possible.

Willow didn't know this. Willow, you're a genius who loves libraries and the internet- look it up!

I always thought it was stupid that fans called them "the Scooby gang." Then the show started doing it and Tara couldn't wait to "go to the Scooby meeting." It's not Scooby-Doo. It's nothing like Scooby-Doo. It's not a cute nickname.

David Boreanaz finally had a great dramatic scene telling Buffy to keep out of his life and to leave town and that thing about "my city." I hope this means he'll continue to get less-bad at acting.

As Buffy and Cordelia get older, they get skinnier. So it goes in Hollywood I guess

With 3 episodes left, Adam's secret plan will come to fruition...

 

[vacantlook]

Yeah, Adam's whole thing happens sooner than later. Season four of Buffy ends differently than previous Buffy seasons in that the finale episode isn't the big confrontation with the Big Bad. I personally love the finale of season four because it's just so freaking weird and has a good film score.

 

[GKarsEye]

Just watched the penultimate episode of the season and yeah, it ends like a normal season finale (a damn good one, despite the deux-ex-machina solution to defeat Adam). Good action sequences.

Am excited for the finale, which I'll probably watch later tonight.

 

[GKarsEye]

Michael Bolton* is in Angel now.


* from Office Space

 

[GKarsEye]

woa...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36_vlZha7bg&feature=related

 

[Recoil]

Well then Whedon saw something I didn't, 'cause Boreanaz is, IMO, the worst actor on the show. I really hope it works out better on the spin-off.

Interestingly enough that was always my opinion. Not bad acting but...no real personality to speak of. It wasn't until he became "Angelus" that I realized the guy could act and that the Angel character could be fun (admittedly in a dark way). It really made me look forward to the times when he reverts to Angelus. Far more entertaining. Angel is just brooding and depressing most of the time, and it got old.


Ooops....just realized you are about 2 seasons beyond where I thought you were. Thought I went to the end of this thread and clearly I didnt...

 

[vacantlook]

Ooops....just realized you are about 2 seasons beyond where I thought you were. Thought I went to the end of this thread and clearly I didnt...

I've done that before.

I'm eager to find out if GKE found any places for the cheese slices.

 

[GKarsEye]

That's ok recoil, everything's up for discussion up until the stuff I've watched, which as of now is the end of season 4 of Buffy, season 1 of Angel.

And, look, man- I wear the cheese, the cheese doesn't wear me.

 

[vacantlook]

So, now you know what the very first Slayer looked like. And on Angel, you've had the introduction of Gunn.

 

[GKarsEye]

Who's Gunn now? I'm bad with names. That the leader of the vampire-killing vigilantes?

The first slayer was, like the Indians on the Thanksgiving, kinda racist-y feeling, but it confirms the implication laid out before that slayers are super-ancient. I think you did say they'll explain the slayer origin story, but if I had to guess it's some sort of Angel-like monster or vampire turned "good" somehow, like maybe Buffy is 1/1000th vampire.

Or maybe Willow is... during her dream people kept talking about how she's hiding who she really is. At first I thought maybe they were talking about the gay thing, but that's already out... then I thought maybe the witch thing, but they know that (given how TV is, I'm sure Willow will become the bestest most superpowerful witch ever ever, so maybe she has some slayer-like genetic thing in her). But then they "reveal" that it's her identity as a nerd in high school. Um...what? Since when is she ashamed of her geekdom? Or am I missing something? Willow's dream was fantastic up until the very end.

"Since when is there a cowboy in Death of Salesman?"

The spell that helped defeat Adam was weird... so they joined strength but also harnessed the power of previous slayers? Huh? And then Adam's ridiculous machine gun hand. I was too swept up in the action to think about it while watching but on retrospect it's all quite silly.

And that pretty much defines the season. Many great moments held together by nothing.
And it's the themes and characters too- like Spike trying to split the group with gossip, and they so easily believe him. That whole thread began and ended so abruptly. But it also gave a couple of my favorite moments- the look on Spike's face when he understands Willow and Tara's relationship and immediately plans on using it to his advantage. And Buffy's line about how "there's no ancient prophecy about a chosen one and her friends." Ouch. Awesome stuff.

And then Angel comes back to fight a little, say sorry, then leave. Superfluous. However I will guess that from now on we'll see much less cross-over between the two shows, now that Angel (the show) has had a chance to establish itself.

It's not a bad season by any means- anything with that many great moments and individual episodes that are amongst the best of the show (Hush, Restless). It's just not as cohesive and "organic" as the previous 2. I think this is due to trying to do so much- expanding the world of demon-fighting with the government and military, AND they're in college instead of high school AND everybody is trying to figure out how to navigate new kinds of relationships AND lets also try to split them up AND Angel AND Faith. Trying to juggle all of these things forced them to set up conflict like: here's a problem with potential solution; now here's the solution. Nothing gets to simmer in my brain enough to have the full impact of previous events.

When Adam died, did anyone think anything other than "cool, and that's weird that it's not the last episode." But when the mayor died, it's "wow, they had to blow up the school to do it, and how is it going to effect the whole town and omg Faith" etc. There was more to it than just "villain defeated." Or when Xander was feeling left out in The Zeppo, there was a long build up to that that made it understandable, and a clever and fun-to-watch solution. This time, it just feels like a retread, added just to give him something to do. Or Willow being angry that Buffy "freaked" about Tara- but she didn't "freak," she was surprised, wtf is Willow so mad about? Other than Oz's return, she really had no reason to be all angsty and conflicted and buy Spike's bullshit so easily.

Oh Spike still has a chip on his head, and the Initiative is over. So I guess he's gonna be around a while. I hope they don't render him completely harmless and he learns to love Buffy and her friends... now remembering the dream part about him being Giles' "son"... and also Buffy calling Xander "big brother."

The military imagery around Xander continues. He might actually join the army at some point. In the dream bathroom there are all these military guys, and an Apocalypse Now parody, and it just keeps coming up in some form.

I read that season 5 is universally loved, so I look forward to that.

 

[vacantlook]

Who's Gunn now? I'm bad with names. That the leader of the vampire-killing vigilantes?

Yup.

I think you did say they'll explain the slayer origin story...

Yup, in the final season.

...but if I had to guess it's some sort of Angel-like monster or vampire turned "good" somehow, like maybe Buffy is 1/1000th vampire.

Nope and nope, though you're kinda, slightly, sort of leaning in the right direction.

Or maybe Willow is... during her dream people kept talking about how she's hiding who she really is. At first I thought maybe they were talking about the gay thing, but that's already out... then I thought maybe the witch thing, but they know that (given how TV is, I'm sure Willow will become the bestest most superpowerful witch ever ever, so maybe she has some slayer-like genetic thing in her). But then they "reveal" that it's her identity as a nerd in high school. Um...what? Since when is she ashamed of her geekdom? Or am I missing something? Willow's dream was fantastic up until the very end.

I think it was supposed to be that Willow in college has projected this college is cool cause people are smart and so am I so I fit in persona, but that underneath that, she still feels like the out of place wallflower dork. Think of how she reacted to overhearing Percy call her a nerd during that party in that one episode.

And Buffy's line about how "there's no ancient prophecy about a chosen one and her friends." Ouch. Awesome stuff.

Which is really what makes Buffy special amongst slayers. The previous slayers mostly just accepted what they had to do, and in having to spend so much time fighting vampires and demons, they just become so isolated. But Buffy's refused to do so. She's fought back against any Watcher attempts to move her toward such isolation. That insistence on being allowed deep personal connections gives Buffy a different perspective than the previous slayers, and that perspective ends up being really important in the long run, I would say.

And then Angel comes back to fight a little, say sorry, then leave. Superfluous. However I will guess that from now on we'll see much less cross-over between the two shows, now that Angel (the show) has had a chance to establish itself.

Less, yeah, but there are still a few times next season. I don't think there's any in the season thereafter, but there are in the final season of Buffy/fourth season of Angel.

Oh Spike still has a chip on his head, and the Initiative is over. So I guess he's gonna be around a while. I hope they don't render him completely harmless and he learns to love Buffy and her friends... now remembering the dream part about him being Giles' "son"... and also Buffy calling Xander "big brother."

He'll go back and forth. He'll have moments where his interactions with the gang are more friendly and other times where they hate him.

I read that season 5 is universally loved, so I look forward to that.

I know I love it. There's some good epic storytelling in it. Some really sad stuff in it too. And just remember, not everything gets explained right away. From what I've read, when it was originally broadcast, some fans got pissed off about things early in the season that are eventually explained because they were just too impatient to wait for the explanation to happen.

 

[vacantlook]

Oh, and here's the order for Buffy5/Angel2. It's pretty much alternating back and forth again.

Buffy -- Buffy vs Dracula
Angel -- Judgment
Buffy -- Real Me
Angel -- Are You Now Or Have You Ever Been
Buffy -- The Replacement
Angel -- First Impressions
Buffy -- Out of My Mind
Angel -- Untouched
Buffy -- No Place Like Home
Angel -- Dear Boy
Buffy -- Family
Angel -- Guise Will Be Guise
Buffy -- Fool For Love
Angel -- Darla
Buffy -- Shadow
Angel -- The Shroud of Rahmon
Buffy -- Listening To Fear
Angel -- The Trial
Buffy -- Into The Woods
Angel -- Reunion
Buffy -- Triangle
Angel -- Redefintion
Buffy -- Checkpoint
Angel -- Blood Money
Buffy -- Blood Ties
Angel -- Happy Anniversary
Buffy -- Crush
Angel -- The Thin Dead Line
Buffy -- I Was Made To Love You
Angel -- Reprise
Buffy -- The Body
Angel -- Epiphany
Buffy -- Forever
Angel -- Disharmony
Buffy -- Intervention
Angel -- Dead End
Buffy -- Tough Love
Angel -- Belonging
Buffy -- Spiral
Angel -- Over The Rainbow
Buffy -- The Weight of the World
Angel -- Through The Looking Glass
Buffy -- The Gift
Angel -- There's No Place Like Plrtz Glrb

 

[GKarsEye]

I know I love it. There's some good epic storytelling in it. Some really sad stuff in it too. And just remember, not everything gets explained right away. From what I've read, when it was originally broadcast, some fans got pissed off about things early in the season that are eventually explained because they were just too impatient to wait for the explanation to happen.

Well I'm patient- remember I'm the guy that was defending Lot's unexplained mysteries. I don't care of stuff is explained, just if it "feels" like it made some sort of sense and served the story and is well-earned, I guess. Also I'll watch the entire early season in one sitting. Ah, technology.

I may not alternate between Buffy and Angel, maybe just do spurts of one or the other depending on my mood, while trying to keep them about even over all (like 3 Buffies one night, 3 Angels the next, etc). We'll see. Might start Buffy later tonight (depending on the machinations of some girl, blah blah...)