Buffy the Vampire Slayer

[GKarsEye]

Speaking of the Watcher, last night I saw Giles face off against an old ally and it was revealed that he has some dark past and can kick ass.

I am not a fan of that old TV trick of making a character completely different all of a sudden like that- the "cheap" feeling it gives cancels out the initial shock. But now we'll see how it plays out.

Another ridiculous TV trope that Buffy suffers from is the character who is very attractive but can't get a date. In this case, that would be Xander. Sure Buffy and Willow are also pretty and can't get dates, but Buffy has weird issues with vampires and Willow is a wallflower, so their lovelessness is reasonable. Xander, however, is a very good-lucking dude, funny, and- most importantly- outgoing. In real life, he'd get all the Buffy and Cordelia lookin' chicks he wanted. And it's not like his infatuation with Buffy is what prevents him- we've seen him turn his attention to other girls easily, so he's not "in love" with her.

So obviously I saw some more episodes- a mummy girl, an evil fraternity, and a Halloween episode where everyone turned into what their costume is.

I'm gonna guess the mummy girl is not a favorite amongst hardcore Buffy fans because it's the ol' "monster of the week," but I liked it. Probably because it's Xander-heavy and I clearly have a man-crush on him. I also seem to remember there being some funny lines and character moments, so I enjoyed it.

The fraternity one was weak, I didn't care for it. The monster looked lame, everyone acted too stereotype, and it was like the 5th episode in row where Buffy is whining about not having a social life.

It was pretty odd to me that they took such an anti-capitalist stance with this episode, and this was during the go-go tech/real-estate boom 90s. Rich people achieve success by privilege and demon-worship, not hard work and talent. That would go over well today but I wonder how that played 12 years ago.

Also it struck me that they did a fraternity episode while they're still in high school- as if they wanted to make sure they got this one in if the show didn't last two more years until they're actually in college.

Halloween episode was great- just relying on the good faith they've earned with characters. Private Xander gave me the first deliberate lol moments of the show, and two of them:

"I just want you to know, I'm taking a lot on faith here."

"Beating up that pirate gave me a weird sense of closure."

Can someone tell me what the hell Willow was actually supposed to be dressed up as in that skank outfit? Is "hot girl" a costume?

Seth Green is introduced, and until I saw him pop up as lead guitarist in a boring rock band, I totally forgot this is where Chris Griffin, the co-creator of Robot Chicken, got famous.

Other stuff I liked:

Eski-Willow

Cordelia's vanity license plate: QUEEN C

90s nostalgia porn: reminding me of a time when I wasn't the only person who didn't get Bollywood. Now non-Indian people are pretending to actually like it. People- not everything has to be "cool" at some point.

Other stuff I didn't like:

Ok look, just because they constantly joke about how Angel is hundreds of years old and Buffy is a teenager, that doesn't excuse how awkward and disaffecting their whole romance is. It's creepy but not in a good way, and Angel doesn't have the charm to pull it off. On a thematic level I get it- Buffy's attraction to the vampire is a symptom of her struggle with her identity, a manifestation of her true Slayer nature that she is suppressing, blah blah blah. But it still comes off as icky and stupid.

One more question I had about Buffy's origin is how she ended up at Sunnydale with the Hellmouth. Are they gonna reveal how this apparent "coincidence" happened?

'Cause here's my theory: demons are attracted to shitty music, because any community of young people that can go to that same lame club every night and listen to bland, same-sounding alterna-rock are clearly one step away from surrendering their souls to the underworld. What, there's no hip-hop in Sunnydale? Techno, electronic, house, d&b, trip-hop, metal, punk, anything other than "major chord MY FEELINGS major chord HEARTS BROKEN minor chord A LOT major chord BLAH BLAH" repeat forever. I mean, they're teenagers- how about some music that's actually fun once in a while?

 

[vacantlook]

Xander is pretty, but he's a super dork, and the dorkish things he says is what tends to get in his way when it comes to him trying to get girls interested in him. At least, that's my experience with his character.

I have no idea what the general reaction to the episode was, but I too enjoyed Inca Mummy Girl. Plus, it was Oz's first episode. He shows up again in Halloween, as you noted, but Inca Mummy Girl was Seth Green's first episode. Reptile Boy doesn't totally bore me when I watch it. While it has an obnoxious don't drink booze from people you don't know message that it bashes you over the head with, it also has Cordelia crashing her car while parking into the car parked in front of her and then blaming it on the parked car, which I always find crazy funny, so the episode isn't a total loss. And Halloween is just a full-on classic episode, in my opinion. The ominousness the episode leaves Giles with plays out well in the show, I think. It's not a giant 180 in his character as it might seem to be implying in the episode.

One more question I had about Buffy's origin is how she ended up at Sunnydale with the Hellmouth. Are they gonna reveal how this apparent "coincidence" happened?

Buffy really did kind of sum it up in the first episode when Giles said, "There's a reason why you're hear, and there's a reason why it's now," and Buffy replied, "Yeah, because now is when my mom moved here." There are moments throughout the show where some invisible, undefined hand of higher power seems to be hinted at, but it's never more than that. The Hellmouth, being a portal into Hell, tends to attract evil things to the town, and it really is a good thing that Buffy is there to fight and kill them (as one particular 3rd season episode abundantly reveals).

 

[GKarsEye]

Oh forgot to give props to my favorite pop-culture reference:

"I'm from Leone. It's in Italy, pretending to be Montana."

Xander, natch, dressed as "the man with no name."

This hardcore spaghetti western fan, whose favorite movie of all time happens to be The Good, The Bad & The Ugly, gave a hardy guffaw at that one.

Xander is pretty, but he's a super dork, and the dorkish things he says is what tends to get in his way when it comes to him trying to get girls interested in him. At least, that's my experience with his character.

Well that would prevent him from getting the cheerleader and Cordelia types, but he doesn't seem to want that anyway. His dorkiness is a sweet kind of dorkiness, not creepy or gross, and many nice, pretty girls dig that.

But, you know, TV, blah blah, I know. We can all list a hundred such attractive loveless people. It's also the plot of every fucking romantic comedy. "Oh if only Drew Barrymore can find love despite her being so adorable." Blech. Believe me I'm not bitching about it, just calling out a common tv/movie stupid thing. It just really hit me especially hard when his naked-in-front-of-the-class nightmare came to life and- man, at the risk of totally queering out, there was no reason for anyone to laugh at him.

I wonder if at some point Xander used to have a little crush on Cordelia 'cause she's so pretty but then realized she's a totally Cee U Next Tuesday and it turned to revulsion. Kind of a right of passage for a young man. And even though he falls for every pretty face, he won't eat her shit. Xander, like Willow, can get shit on and are not bad-asses but they are not suckers, either. I am expecting this shared aspect of their characters to manifest itself in serious ways.

Here's my other "typical TV show stupid thing that Buffy also does"- there's a super bad-ass extra tough vampire lurking about Sunnydale, clearly hell-bent on destroying Buffy. Why are they just waiting to react instead of taking the initiative and seeking him out before he hatches some plot? In fact, Giles' pushing of Buffy's training was an important plot point of the fraternity episode. Training and patrolling is all very well and good, but how 'bout actually chasing the bad guy?

 

[vacantlook]

I'm eager to find out about your reaction to some stuff that happens a few episodes from now for you. It should be fun to see what you think of what ends up happening. You've got a good episode, a decent episode, and a big-story two-parter in your next four episodes. The four of them will probably produce lots of comments from you. I look forward to it.

 

[GKarsEye]

I'm eager to find out about your reaction to some stuff that happens a few episodes from now for you. It should be fun to see what you think of what ends up happening. You've got a good episode, a decent episode, and a big-story two-parter in your next four episodes. The four of them will probably produce lots of comments from you. I look forward to it.

That's why I started this thread... ME ME ME ME! And we all know how much I love me some me.

So there's a two-parter coming up... hmm... well I'll be home late because I have to go to the gym and school some bitches on the racquetball court, so I'll probably wind down the day with the next two episodes.

After season 3, I may also check out Angel in parallel. Was that a good show?

The other fun part about this thread is that when I'm done watching all this I'll go back and read everything- my opinions, my predictions, all of your reactions, remembrances, promises and foreshadowings. I like stories.

 

[vacantlook]

I enjoyed the Angel series. It has a different tone to its storytelling than Buffy has. Occationally, characters from Buffy would pop up on Angel, and vice versa. So, as you watch season four and onward of Buffy, there are a few episodes that reference things Buffy characters did on Angel. If you do decide to watch Angel, watch the Buffy episodes first. There are some events that happen in a two-parter in Buffy in season four, for example, that continue over on Angel. Watching the Angel part of it first would probably leave you going, "Whua?"

 

[GKarsEye]

Well if I watch it then I'll probably do like one Buffy then one Angel, cause I assume they ran at the same time, right?

Anyway I'm popping in here real quick 'cause I heard this song in the car and I'm posting it here in tribute to Xander (and, let's be honest, all of us in high school):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SPogGqCgeM&feature=related

look over there... WHERE...


Ok off to watch the next two..

 

[Sindatur]

GKE...about the Music - If I remember right, wasn't the club called "The Bronze"?

Now if it was called Platinum or Gold, or even Silver, maybe you woulda got the music you were looking for

 

[vacantlook]

I had to look up the original broadcast dates just to make sure, yeah, Buffy and Angel were shown on the same night for Buffy4/Angel1 and Buffy5/Angel2.

But then, Buffy moved from The WB to UPN, while Angel stayed on The WB, and their schedules changed.

For Buffy6/Angel3, Angel episodes would be shown one one night, and then Buffy would be on the next night. (So whereas you watched Buffy, then Angel for 4/1 and 5/2, now you'd switch and watch Angel first and Buffy second.)

And then comes Buffy7/Angel4. The broadcast schedule for those two is insanely fucked up. There were periods where three weeks of Angel episodes would go by with no corresponding Buffy episode. It's difficult to keep it straight, so when you get to it, let me know. I have a compiled list of the episodes of both shows in broadcast order that makes keeping track of which episode of which show to watch next easy.

 

[GKarsEye]

GKE...about the Music - If I remember right, wasn't the club called "The Bronze"?

Now if it was called Platinum or Gold, or even Silver, maybe you woulda got the music you were looking for

Hey man, I'm not asking for good music (teenagers are supposed to go through phases of bad taste, that's how we learn), but just something that may actually be fun and danceable.
However, in the interest of period accuracy, the late 90s did indeed see shocking preponderance of mediocre, mid-tempo, bland guitar rock. Remember bands like Seven Mary Three? Matchbox 20? Train? Eve 6? This is the music that creates portals to demon worlds, is all.


Look at me I'm typing about stuff I just watched!

Ok well I suppose this was bound to happen at some point in our relationship, but I had my first fight with Buffy.
This dude from her previous school happens to move to her town, go to his school, tells her he knows about her vampire business, and she celebrates! Doesn't strike her as suspicious?! What the hell, man.. I mean, what the hell?! I yelled at her.

Other than that we get some background about Angel, Spike and Drusilla. None of it terribly fascinating or shocking, but it does explain why Drusilla is such a wackadoodle (but not why she can sort of see the future).

We also get some background about Giles/Ripper and Ethan- in fact, it almost felt like too much background. I assumed that they'd milk the mysterious Giles past for all it was worth, but instead he basically just sits down and tells Buffy everything. Ok, then.

Eh, I really don't have any strong impressions about these episodes. The show is in a groove now, so it was entertaining, but there were no particular highs and, except for Buffy's afore-mentioned moment of stupidity, no real lows.

What do people think of Drusilla? 'Cause her character is a bold but failed attempt at something different. So I appreciate the effort but every time she talks I want to drive a stake through my TV speakers. So you can imagine how I dealth with the scene of just her and Angel talking alone (by drinking heavily).

 

[GKarsEye]

I had to look up the original broadcast dates just to make sure, yeah, Buffy and Angel were shown on the same night for Buffy4/Angel1 and Buffy5/Angel2.

But then, Buffy moved from The WB to UPN, while Angel stayed on The WB, and their schedules changed.

For Buffy6/Angel3, Angel episodes would be shown one one night, and then Buffy would be on the next night. (So whereas you watched Buffy, then Angel for 4/1 and 5/2, now you'd switch and watch Angel first and Buffy second.)

And then comes Buffy7/Angel4. The broadcast schedule for those two is insanely fucked up. There were periods where three weeks of Angel episodes would go by with no corresponding Buffy episode. It's difficult to keep it straight, so when you get to it, let me know. I have a compiled list of the episodes of both shows in broadcast order that makes keeping track of which episode of which show to watch next easy.

Dude I won't have to let you know- you're reading this thread!

 

[vacantlook]

I think Buffy accepted Ford knowing she was the Slayer as easily as she did because she's been through so much that she was desperate to latch onto something from her life before becoming the Slayer. She talks about crushing on him in like 6th grade or whatever young year it was. She's a junior in high school in season two of the show, and to that point, she's found out she's supposed to risk her life all the time fighting literal evil, she burned down a school building to do so at her previous school, got kicked out of school, had her parents split up, and had to move to another town, where she finds out she didn't escape having to fight for her life all the time like she had hoped. Ford was, in her mind, part of her normal life before all the crazy started, so she just sort of stopped thinking straight for a while.

And thinking about all this, I thought of something related to a question you had previously asked about if there was something more than coincidence that prompted Buffy's move to Sunnydale, as opposed to some other town. I can't remember what episode, but I suddenly remembered Buffy's mom at some point having said that they had to move there because Buffy's mom couldn't find any other nearby schools that would accept Buffy as a student after she had been kicked out of her old school for having burned down the gym.

Drusilla can see the future just because she can; lots of magic on this show. I enjoy Drusilla. Her crazy babbling can really just make me laugh because of the strange, random absurdity of some of it, but there are a few times when she actually kinda freaks me out.

I too thought they'd have stretched out the mystery about Giles's past longer than they did. It's something that kinda disappoints me that they revealed it so quickly. They set it up and then two episodes later, layed it all out. I do like that the mystery was something rather mundane: he was crazy and wild as a youth. I think one of the major themes of the show over all it's collected seasons is how much one changes and how much one stays the same growing up, and the Giles revelation fits right in with that.

 

[darth_librarian]

Remember the Gillmore Girls? Every chick I know was into that, and when I saw it, they were talking super-fast and everything was amazingly clever, with no stuttering or pauses, even if the character was in high school. Same thing like some of your observations about Buffy- people don't/can't talk like that in real life.

I'm gonna chalk that up to a theatrical style choice. It's like an Oscar Wilde play- you know it's not realistic, but you're enjoying the cleverness of the script.

It took me a while to get this with Whedon, at first I found it irritating. But it does make good TV. I love how we are all talking about Buffy like its 1999 again.

 

[GKarsEye]

And thinking about all this, I thought of something related to a question you had previously asked about if there was something more than coincidence that prompted Buffy's move to Sunnydale, as opposed to some other town. I can't remember what episode, but I suddenly remembered Buffy's mom at some point having said that they had to move there because Buffy's mom couldn't find any other nearby schools that would accept Buffy as a student after she had been kicked out of her old school for having burned down the gym.

And her mom could only find that school because...

This is really just still a coincidence if this is the only explanation they give.
In the pilot, Giles was acting as if he expected Buffy to show up. I therefore I assumed we'd learn at some point that events were manipulated, by Giles himself or whomever, for Buffy to go that particular school, or her mom to get a job in that particular town or something like that.

I suppose it's a pretty obvious conclusion that the noblewoman in the book about Angel = pre-vampiric Drusilla?

 

[Chilli]

Re: watching Buffy and Angel at the same time .. I started doing this, but soon quit. The styles of the two shows are so radically different that it really "clashed" for me - after watching an episode of Buffy, Angel seemed painfully gloomy and emo; after watching an episode of Angel, Buffy seemed painfully childish and hip.

 

[KoshFan]

Buffy is about growing up and why it's hard; Angel is about being a grown-up and why that's hard too. And they very much diverged in style. So I might watch them in parallel bursts, but not one-for-one.

The one with Ford is "Lie to Me," which I feel is their first truly great episode. On a re-watch you realize just how brilliantly well-written it is.

There's definitely better stuff coming, though.

 

[GKarsEye]

Buffy is about growing up and why it's hard; Angel is about being a grown-up and why that's hard too. And they very much diverged in style. So I might watch them in parallel bursts, but not one-for-one.

The one with Ford is "Lie to Me," which I feel is their first truly great episode. On a re-watch you realize just how brilliantly well-written it is.

There's definitely better stuff coming, though.

No it's about vampires!

Clashing styles don't bother me. For the past couple of months I've been capping my weekends with Treme followed by Breaking Bad. Doesn't get more clashing that that.

Halloween was a "great" episode, IMO, easily my favorite so far.

 

[vacantlook]

I suppose it's a pretty obvious conclusion that the noblewoman in the book about Angel = pre-vampiric Drusilla?

No, the noblewoman drawn there was not Drusilla. It's someone you already know, but I'm not going to tell you who it is; you'll find out by the end of the season.

 

[KoshFan]

Buffy is about growing up and why it's hard; Angel is about being a grown-up and why that's hard too.

No it's about vampires!

"That too."

 

[GKarsEye]

I suppose it's a pretty obvious conclusion that the noblewoman in the book about Angel = pre-vampiric Drusilla?

No, the noblewoman drawn there was not Drusilla. It's someone you already know, but I'm not going to tell you who it is; you'll find out by the end of the season.

Ooh, I get to make silly guesses, fun!

Ok, the noblewoman is:

- The computer teacher. Surprise, she's a vampire!

- Buffy herself, in a previous incarnation. Yes, now there's reincarnation, why not. This means Buffy and Angel are tied together forever, how romantic for the teeny girls.

- Cordelia, because being a bitchy noblewoman would certainly be a good match for her.

- the principal. That's how he knows about all the vampire stuff.

Do they ever explain why the slayer always has to be a girl? And I mean really explain it, other than "because that's what the prophecy says" or "Joss Whedon thought it would be cool to make a girl the hero."