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Building the Definitive TV on DVD Collection

Sorry, allow me to clarify my question: Did he give a reason for composing BtVS for 4x3? I'm trying to gauge how strong Joss' convinction is that BtVS should be seen in 4x3. Was is composed in 4x3 simply to accommodate the aspect ratio of the TVs that most of the population owns or was it for some artistic reason? If it's the former, I'll go with anamorphic, if the latter -- full frame (if that's what the region 1 release indeed is). However, I'd want to read/hear the Joss statement myself before making the decision.


Also, to lessen my Buena Vista rant, the word from TVShowsonDVD.com is that Buena Vista told them that "Alias" would be released in widescreen. My DVD-is-inferior-to-HDTV dilemma continues.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will! :)), but most TV shows aren't shot on film, they are shot on video cameras (I believe B5 was an exception here).

OK, you're wrong. :) Most TV shows - and virtually all one hour dramas - produced in the United States are shot on film. Even most sitcoms are shot that way. Over here videotape is limited to soap operas, talk shows and some situation comedies. All of the Treks, Buffy, etc. are shot on 35mm film, just like the movies. I noticed many years ago that most TV imports from the UK were shot on videotape - or that they mixed video and film. (Video being used for all indoor "studio" work, film for exteriors. This is quite evident in something like Monty Python.) Presumably this was done (a) to save money and (b) because there wasn't much of a market for reruns once a show was finished, so less reason to keep a high quality copy on hand.

The American system of reruns and especially of the studio "packaging" and reselling a show to local stations was more-or-less invented by Desi Arnez who pioneered the use of film cameras in television, and who also won a contract clause that made DesiLu Studios the owners of the film once I Love Lucy was out of production for CBS. CBS didn't think the film was worth anything, so they didn't fight Arnez on that clause. Sorta reminds me of 20th Century Fox giving George Lucas the merchandising rights to Star Wars. A landmark in the history of bad corporate decisions. :)

Regards,

Joe
 
Aww, Joe, your posts are like a mini-version of JMS' Complete Book of Scriptwriting :)

Just to add to the esoteria: the first 2 seasons of BtVS were shot on 16mm.
 
Sorry, allow me to clarify my question: Did he give a reason for composing BtVS for 4x3? I'm trying to gauge how strong Joss' convinction is that BtVS should be seen in 4x3. Was is composed in 4x3 simply to accommodate the aspect ratio of the TVs that most of the population owns or was it for some artistic reason? If it's the former, I'll go with anamorphic, if the latter -- full frame (if that's what the region 1 release indeed is). However, I'd want to read/hear the Joss statement myself before making the decision.

I read about it on a couple of dvdforums, probably home thater forum and dvd talk a while back. The threads seem to be gone now though. Your best bet would be searching or asking at one of those forums. It was enough to convince me of going for 4:3 at least for season 4, but far from everyone were convinced as I recall. The extra commentary track on R1 doesn't hurt either.

Good news about Alias!
 
OK, you're wrong. :) Most TV shows - and virtually all one hour dramas - produced in the United States are shot on film. Even most sitcoms are shot that way. Over here videotape is limited to soap operas, talk shows and some situation comedies. All of the Treks, Buffy, etc. are shot on 35mm film, just like the movies. I noticed many years ago that most TV imports from the UK were shot on videotape - or that they mixed video and film. (Video being used for all indoor "studio" work, film for exteriors. This is quite evident in something like Monty Python.) Presumably this was done (a) to save money and (b) because there wasn't much of a market for reruns once a show was finished, so less reason to keep a high quality copy on hand.
{snip}
Monty Python was meant to be satire on current affairs. When they made it in the sixties it was assumed it would be out of date 2 years later. No one expected it to still be being shown 40 years later overseas.
 
Thank you muchly, budong. That was quite informative. I have made my peace with whatever the R1 BtVS season 4 release will be (the R1 exclusive commentary helps :D ).

But "Angel: Seaon 2" and onwards had DAMN BETTER BE IN ANAMORPHIC WIDESCREEN!
 
From The Digital Bits, the Word of Whedon:

Next, we've been getting a lot of complains from fans about Buffy the Vampire Slayer: The Complete Fourth Season being in full frame aspect ratio, and not anamorphic widescreen. We contacted Fox, and now we've got official word from series creator Joss Whedon on the issue. Here's what he has to say:

A PERSONAL MESSAGE FROM JOSS WHEDON

Gentle Viewer:

No doubt you are looking over this scrumptious BUFFY package and exclaiming "No @#$%ing letterboxing? Whutzat? GYPPED!" Possibly you are breaking things. Please calm down. The fabulous episodes of BUFFY (and that one crappy one, sorry about that, seemed really cool when we wrote it...) were not shot in a widescreen format. They were shot in the TV 4 by 3 ratio. Now I'm a letterbox fanatic, but not just because I crave th' wide. I want to see the whole screen, as framed by the director. The BUFFY's I (and others) shot were framed for traditional TVs. Adding space to the sides simply for the sake of trying to look more cinematic would betray the very exact mise-en-scene I was trying to create. I am a purist, and this is the purest way to watch BUFFY. I have resisted the effort to letterbox BUFFY from the start and always will, because that is not the show we shot. This is. So enjoy! Stop breaking things. You're getting the best presentation of -- let's face it -- the best Television Drama since MATCHGAME '79. Bye for now!

Sincerely,

Joss Whedon

Okay, fine, this is testing my DVD sensibilities, cuz I do crave the wide, but if JOSS says so -- so it shall be. No word yet on Angel.

Another interesting tidbit follows it:
For those of you also upset that Dark Angel: The Complete First Season is full frame as well, we're told that series creator James Cameron wanted it that way too. Go figure.

Who to heck does he think he is? Joss Whedon? The anamorphic widescreen Dark Angel looks smashing so there :p
 
For those of you also upset that Dark Angel: The Complete First Season is full frame as well, we're told that series creator James Cameron wanted it that way too. Go figure.

Who to heck does he think he is? Joss Whedon? The anamorphic widescreen Dark Angel looks smashing so there :p

If my memory serves me correctly (and it often doesn't), I seem to recall James Cameron is a bit weird about widescreen, saying he preferred full screen 4:3 for home viewing of his films, and that he shoots films with this in mind.
 
The "Buffy" or the "Dark Angel"? They're both shot in widescreen, and they were both released in region 2 and 4 in anamorphic widescreen. And now Joss Whedon and James Cameron are saying the full frame is the true aspect ratio of their respective oeuvre because they did the mise en scene for full frame :rolleyes: So that's why they're releasing them in full frame in region 1, and why we shouldn't whine about it because it's the truest interpretation of their vision. :eek:

... but full frame is wrong. Wrong! Wrong. WRONG :mad:
 
I have to ask, but in the US can one actually buy a analogue widscreen, or is as I suspect the realm of only HDTV?

As fo Buffy, if it shot in widscreen and available in widscreen I will have it in widescree. I'd rather have dead space on the side of my TV then black bars.
 
Widescreen (16x9) TVs in North America can receive and display analog signals if that's what you're asking.

I'm torn on the Buffy aspect ratio issue. Here are the pros and cons to region 1 full frame as I see them:

CONS
- less picture -> lateral side bands on widescreen display
- no great improvement to what's already been seen on the broadcasts
- possibly less resolution (because of NTSC format)

PROS
- true vision of Joss Whedon
- half the price of region 2/4 releases
- no production artifacts in frame
- more commentary from Joss

Here's what The Bits had to say about it:

As a Buffy fan from the beginning, I have always loved the show's unique style, quirkiness and (most importantly in this case) cinematography. Seasons One and Two of Buffy were shot on 16mm, and while Season Three was shot in 35mm, there are no widescreen masters (though 16:9 extractions were done later on certain scenes for flashbacks in Season Four).

Starting with Season Four, as per an industry-wide move toward HDTV, the show's production company, Mutant Enemy, began to prepare widescreen versions of Buffy episodes (alongside the regular 4x3 versions) for foreign and later domestic widescreen broadcast. The typical technique for this is to center all of your shots within the 16x9 frame, and then extract your 4x3 image from the center. Now the big question that pops up here is, which format is intended, and which is being protected for? While shows like 24 are quite obviously intended for 16x9 presentation (just look at all those split-screens), Buffy is not and never has been. The one exception to this hard and fast rule is the musical episode, Once More with Feeling. Compare the cinematography there to other Whedon-directed episodes, and you'll see a gigantic difference in everything from camera placement to the blocking of actors - a trend that continued in the episodes of Firefly that Joss directed (Firefly was shot for 16x9 for every episode).

The following example comes from one of Buffy's finest episodes, The Body, which (along with the provided Whedon DVD audio commentary excerpt in white text) shows that Whedon was under no studio coercion, but has ALWAYS gone for 4x3:

"We're actually coming up on one of my favorite shots that I ever composed. And it's very simple... which is this:

Buffy - 4x3 screen shot

Very simply, it's an over, where I squeezed her into the frame as much as possible so that it's like she didn't have room to maneuver.

[...] A normal over would have been her with a tiny slice of his shoulder. Instead I let his shoulder own the frame. [...] It's an obvious thing, not great filmmaking, but when I did it on the day I saw the over and thought, "He's a little too much in the frame. Keep pushing it. Keep pushing. Giver her less room, give her less room." It excited me. It made me realize that something not particularly clever but useful could just appear on the day."

So there you've heard from the man himself. And now, here's the same shot as it appears in widescreen:

Buffy - 16x9 screen shot

And, just in case Whedon's intent (and the visual evidence of it) isn't enough, you should know that there are many instances in Buffy episodes where, when presented in 16x9 format, you can see crew members, mic booms, light stands and other production "gremlins" that inadvertently strayed into the frame. These are not normally visible in the intended 4x3 format.

On a final note, the only place where Buffy is shown in broadcast widescreen is England, where old 4x3 programming has the top and bottom chopped off so Nigel Sixpack (as opposed to Joe here in the States) can fill his widescreen television. The bottom line is that asking that Buffy be presented in 16x9 is just as compromising to the originally artistic vision as making a pan & scan version of a widescreen film. Buffy should no more be widescreen than Citizen Kane. Thanks to Christian Preischl for the screen shots and transcript excerpts used above.

Okay, Bill here again. So there you have it. The reality is that everyone is going to have their own opinion on this issue. I've already read a couple reviews around the Net from fans who viewed the U.K. Buffy: Season Four DVDs in 16x9 and much preferred them to the U.S. 4x3 versions. But the consensus from most knowledgable fans, and the final word on the subject from Whedon himself, is that full frame's the word for Buffy. So there. And with that, we are officially done with this issue here at The Bits.
 
Don't believe it man, its all a con.

First of all why film in widscreen to begin with, surly it must be more expensive;

Give it a few years and once HD DVD is here FOX will be bringing out Hi DFE version in widscreen.

Check out www3.cd-wow.com they are selling S4 & 5 R2 at a very resonable price of £39.99. I have a feeling Fox decided to release the Widescreen version in Europe to stop mass importation of the signifacantly less expensvie R1.
 
I haven't made up my mind (thanks for the link BTW), but let me play :devil:'s advocate:

I'm not big with the studio trust -- they are all greedy little bastards whose sole purpose in life is to rip us off. But really, if all's they want to do is stop mass export to non-region 1 countries of the region 1 version, they just have to raise the region 1 prices.

Price aside (39.99 GBP+customs still being almost twice the price of the region 1 release in Canada), there's still the artistic vision issue and the production gremlin in the 16x9 frame issue. That last one is particularly important: I'd prefer a cropped image to the apearance of production crew and booms in the frame. More isn't necessarily better -- sometimes it's just more.

And if you follow the HD-DVD re-release argument, then it's pointless to buy DVDs from any region because the HD-DVD releases will be better. But by then it'll be pointless to buy the HD-DVDs because the hologram (surround picture!) data crystals will be even better ... and so on.
 

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