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Channe Takes On "To Live And Die In Starlight" (SPOILERS)

Right, I must add more.

I'm watching Rangers for a second time around (while annotating Martin Luther's "Concerning Christian Liberty," actually).

Who else is seeing the story arc, here?

I am.
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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph DeMartino:


<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Did anybody notice that the entire nub of their defeat of the "Fingers" was play on the whole notion of "doing the same thing twice in a row, but not doing exactly the same thing?" Or how much David's strategems depended on slieght-of-hand, illusion and misdirection? JMS not only knew we would all scream "Shadows all over again!" he commented on that fact, in the script. G'Kar's "Nobody here is exactly what he appears" is just the icing on that particular cake. JMS must be reading the comments on usenet and elsewhere and laughing his ass off. "Wow! They fell for it again!" </font></td></tr></table>


<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thanks for the revelation, Mr. DeMartino.



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"Ink on a page!" -Refa describing the moral depths of a treaty.
"Life is life, whether it's wrapped in skin, scales or feathers." -Dr. Franklin
 
Great Maker, Channe!

I just read your review for the first time and noticed how much of it was so similar to mine... from comments made, all the way down to the format.

Just wanted to let you know that I did not read your review before writing mine... must be just a freaky coincidence.
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As I am not a writer per se, although I have dabbled, if I had written a review as long as yours, I'd be getting Carpal Tunnel surgery right now.
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-Londo's Hair
"Vir, intelligence has nothing to do with politics!"
 
*grins* No worries, Hair.

As for carpal tunnel syndrome, I'm sure that I'm going to get it. Although I'm very careful, I type from 9 in the morning to around 3 am. Literally. I have to be very careful, take frequent breaks, etc, and have excellent posture.

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channe@[url="http://cryoterrace.tripod.com"]cryoterrace[/url] | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
Excellent review channe, having not had the privledge of seeing the telemovie yet it was good too see you didn't go too deep
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"When it is time, come to this place, call our name, we will be here" -Walkers of Sigma957
 
I thought I had posted here but guess not...

Anyway Channe I reall enjoyed your review very imformative..

It has got my hopes up as I have not seen it yet and from all the different poeple saying what they thought confusion LOL

But yours seems good it explains allot thankyou

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Deviot
Lincbot@yahoo.com.au
 
The telling line (which also gives Joe a chance to change any and all preconceptions--as usual) is:
"Remember, no one here is what they seem."
Citizen G'Kar
(PS: It's long past time that Andreas put out a cd featuring him reading poetry. Keats, Yeats and any other of the great ones. If he has I'd really like to know where it's for sale.)

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no sig.
 
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I gotta admit that the weapons pod was not my favorite part. It definitely has potentail as a series. But I would really like them to have the pod replaced if it does indeed make it to a series.

Thought it looked quite silly and darned inefficient to boot.

barry56

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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by channe:
Martel works. (One L, or two?) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Eek, guess it is with two L's so now I have been misspelling it this whole time.
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I figured I would go with the way it is spelled the most. Anyway, it is spelled "Martell" in the opening credits.

Overall, my husband and I really enjoyed it and at the risk of repeating myself from another thread ... maybe it was because we were so happy to have something new in the B5 universe that clouded our judgement. Still, I don't like to get overly critical or nitpicky since I know how much work goes into these things. Plus, we only have a hint of what may yet come and I have faith in JMS and the rest of the cast.

Most of my issues were with the SFX and even then it was minor. Mostly a matter of getting used to the new look of Minbar, jump points, hyperspace, etc.

I could nitpick just about everything but I don't think that would be very productive at this point. There are just too many other people doing that right now.
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In conclusion, excellent entertainment and potential gang. Thanks!

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Monica Hübinette | Abyss : B5 <- New & Improved!
And the ship looking for them, would find it, find them, find us, find you. A brilliant cascade of cause and effect. Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else. --G'Kar in B5LR
 
O.K. Everyone else has had plenty to say about the characters, plot, dialogue, etc. It has all been hashed over a great deal and I find I have nothing new to add, so forget that, and on to something completely different.

Can anyone tell me why none of the Rangers had the collapsable fighting staves? I LOVED those and every time a hand to hand combat erupted, I found myself wondering where the hell the fighting staves were.

I mean, every time we saw Marcus get into a hand to hand fight, the VERY first thing that happened was out came the staff. Is there a bit of background I am missing here? Are the staves rare, or only give out to a certain rank of Ranger? I mean they obviously all train with staves. I assumed when they were training that they used wooden staves for the same reason practitioners of Kendo use Shinai, so the weapons are not damaged and so that the fighters don't kill each other. But there was not a single Minbari Fighting staff in the entire show. Why?

Thanks if anyone can give me the lowdown on that.

P.S. Anyone want to place bets on whether or not there is a possibility of Marcus still being alive, possibly frozen with the Telepaths on B5, for a time when he could be revived? Heh, that is something that I would love to see in a Rangers TV series, a cameo by Marcus.

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"In the Beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."
-Douglas Adams 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'

[This message has been edited by Fineous (edited January 21, 2002).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fineous:
P.S. Anyone want to place bets on whether or not there is a possibility of Marcus still being alive, possibly frozen with the Telepaths on B5, for a time when he could be revived? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frozen, yes, comeback, no. Not after the short story "Space, Time and the Incurable Romantic".

Spoilers for the short story:

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>Marcus is indeed revived - a few hundred years after the "current" B5 storyline time. Obviously, everyone he knows is dead. Anyway, without getting into the specifics, he manages to have Ivanova cloned (there's a central databank that has Susan's "personality" stored away, memories and all that) and decides to live happily ever after with her on some lonely planet.</font></td></tr></table>



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"Isn't the universe an amazing place? I wouldn't live anywhere else." - G'Kar, B5: Rangers
Kribu's Lounge | kribu@ranger.b5lr.com
 
I think it was mentioned in one of the books or something that, while every Ranger trains with fighting sticks, only some get the real deal. Remember how Delenn was surprised to see Marcus' pike when they first met. Also, it was in the books that Marcus was particularly good with the stick.

Joe, great point about the parallel between the Hand and the script. I caught the same thing after thinking about if for a while. My first reaction about the Hand was that it was the Shadows all over again. But, there are a couple of things in there that makes it different.

1. The Hand are trying to return "home." Are we talking about dimensions, time lines galaxies, what? Is the world of the Rangers story the Hands' home, or are they stuck here trying to get somewhere else.

2. "The Hand of God, the Hand of Death." This sounds like there could be some kind of religious or socio-political aspect to these guys that was not found in the First Ones.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GKarsEye:
I think it was mentioned in one of the books or something that, while every Ranger trains with fighting sticks, only some get the real deal. Remember how Delenn was surprised to see Marcus' pike when they first met. Also, it was in the books that Marcus was particularly good with the stick.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks all, that makes sense I guess. Pity though.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>

Joe, great point about the parallel between the Hand and the script. I caught the same thing after thinking about if for a while. My first reaction about the Hand was that it was the Shadows all over again. But, there are a couple of things in there that makes it different.

1. The Hand are trying to return "home." Are we talking about dimensions, time lines galaxies, what? Is the world of the Rangers story the Hands' home, or are they stuck here trying to get somewhere else.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The first thing I thought of, considering the fact that the movies had all just been shown again to refresh our memories (Though I skipped "River of Souls" *shudder*) was that the basic idea reminded me of "Thirdspace". O.K. the ships looked different, but there is an explanation for that. And that is, that we never saw the big bad aliens. We saw their equivalent of Drakh. Helper races, that have been given a bit of a hand up with technology. After all, the traitor called the ships 'toys' that were given to races that played nice with the new bad guys.

In Thirdspace we were told that a race opened a portal into a new dimension, different from our own and Hyperspace, and that an Alien race was encountered there who just happened to want to invade our reality and annihilate us.

What if instead everyone was lied to (Vorlons? Be misleading? WHAT A CONCEPT!), and the Alien race is in fact another Old One race who was booted from our reality a long LONG time ago, and now that the last of the old races in our neck of the universe are gone they are trying to make a comeback?

That would explain the disparity in ships, we just haven't seen the big bad race yet.

Oh well, just some random musings in the middle of the afternoon. . .

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"In the Beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move."
-Douglas Adams 'The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy'
 
Does anyone else think that Channe might have a sausage filling?

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Let's build a snowman! He'll be our best friend! We can make him tall, or we can make him NOT so tall! WE CAN NAME HIM SHANNON BILLY BOB OR JILL!-Swan 'Cannibal:The Musical'
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Babylon-ocholic:
Does anyone else think that Channe might have a sausage filling?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh my god, how can NOT make a filthy comment?!

MUST RESIST....

Whew, I did it.



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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Remember how Delenn was surprised to see Marcus' pike when they first met.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh my god, how can NOT make a filthy comment?!

MUST RESIST....

Whew, I did it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Actually, Delenn was surprised that Marcus had such an old pike (quiet over there, Eye.
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) As with Samuarai swords, pikes are still made, but the old ones, the ones with a history, are the most prized. (Another parallel to Japanese society in the Minbari.) That he had one at all was not as surprising (given that he was a Ranger on detached duty.) But it is true that the Minbari were initially reluctant to give any human a pike, and that not even all Minbari Rangers earn one in the course of training. (At least if my rapidly fading recollection of To Dream in the City of Sorrows is correct.)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>...when I was reading info on the series and heard of 'The Hand' which was supposed to make the Shadows look like insects...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wait a second!

The Shadows did look like insects, so how hard is this really?
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Maybe the Hand are incredibly weak interstellar con men. (Known primarily for running crooked card games, hence their name.) One day they're sitting around on Kafta's world, having a few beers, dealing poker from a marked deck, and talking about old times. One of them says, "Remember the Shadows? Didn't they look like insects?"

One of Kafta's people imperfectly over-hears this, runs to warn the government and the next thing The Hand know, the entire planet has surrendered to them. Knowing a good scam when they see it, the Hand starts recruiting other races....

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This would sure solve the continuity problem. The climax to the Hand saga could come in S2 (2267) when David Martel and Matthew Gideon challenge the Hand to a poker touranment and out-cheat them.
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>... if someone has the energy, find out how long B-52s have been flying for the U.S. Air Force.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>The B-52A first flew in 1954, and the B model entered service in 1955. A total of 744 B-52s were built with the last, a B-52H, delivered in October 1962. Only the H model is still in the Air Force inventory and is assigned to Air Combat Command and the Air Force Reserves. source: www.af.mil<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In other words, the B-52 is older than many of the pilots flying it. I've heard it referred to (by retired AF types, and with affection) as "a collection of spare parts, flying in loose formation."

In fact the airframe of the B-52 is extremely strong, and if maintained will last for a very long time. With continuing upgrades to engines and other systems, the AF estimates the B-52, which entered service before I was born, may well be flying after I'm gone:

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Updated with modern technology the B-52 will be capable of delivering the full complement of joint developed weapons and will continue into the 21st century as an important element of our nation's defenses. Current engineering analyses show the B-52's life span to extend beyond the year 2045. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>Myriam was terrible. She over-acted like crazy, and since my older bro is a talented and educated actor, I do know what to do, and what not to do. It did seem as one reviewer ponted out that she tried to upstage dylan in every scene.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Technically you can't "upstage" someone on film, unless the director lets you, in which case it becomes his (or her) decision. I've acted (non-professionaly
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) on and off for the better part of 30 years, and I've written and directed for the stage as well. Nearly 50 different shows (some of them more than once) and hundreds of performances. I had no problem with Myriam's performance except for one or two moments in the pod (you all know which ones.)

Whether those moments are Myriam's fault is highly debatable. If Mike Vejar didn't like what he saw, he could have told her to tone it down and done another take, up to a point. And it may be that her actions were exactly what JMS called for in the screenplay.

It may also be that the "big scream" (which, if I recall was composed of several intercut shots of FX stuff and different angles) was actually created in the editing room and never really existed, as seen, on the soundstage.

People are entirely to quick to blame certain things on actors, forgetting that they are not free to do whatever they want on screen or on stage. (Though they're considerably freer on stage. There are no retakes in the theater. It isn't like a stage manager or director is going to stop the show in mid-performance because and actor does something contrary to the director's wishes. Believe me, I've been on both sides of such minor mutinies.
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)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, arial">quote:</font><HR>P.S. Anyone want to place bets on whether or not there is a possibility of Marcus still being alive, possibly frozen with the Telepaths on B5, for a time when he could be revived? Heh, that is something that I would love to see in a Rangers TV series, a cameo by Marcus.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Only in flashbacks, if they happen to run into a character who would have known him, as explained in an earlier response.

As for the Teepsicles: (Spoilers for The Psi Corps Trilogy) -

<table bgcolor=black><tr><td bgcolor=black><font size=1 color=white>Spoiler:</font></td></tr><tr><td><font size=2 color=black>At least some of them, including Bester's lover, are killed in the bombing of a Psi Corps facility during the Teep War. The book doesn't make it clear if all of them were in the same place, but I'm pretty sure all of them at the blast site were killed. Can't remember now if it was on Mars, Earth, or not identified.</font></td></tr></table>

Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited January 22, 2002).]
 
Um, EXCUSE me?

Wow. (I said I was retreating from the forum, not ceasing to post entirely, so yes, I saw this
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)

I'm not exactly the least controversial figure, no, but I've never heard that terminology in referral to my own cute self before. This is what I HAVE heard:

1
Girl: Gee, Channe really has a stick up her rear today.

2
Cute Boy: Channe scares me. I don't understand a thing she says in class.

3
Friend: Would she just QUIT being so... so... ebuillient!?

4
Girl: You know, Channe, you're getting really annoying with that honest criticism thing, hun...

5
Roommate: Channe never stops. She's a workaholic. Her boyfriend is her laptop.

But I have never heard "Channe has a sausage filling."

I guess the question remains:

What on Earth do you mean by that?
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channe@cryoterrace | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
While I'm here...

A BRILLIANT MOMENT IN THE B5LR SCRIPT

Just to prove to the naysayers that, yes, I was not ENTIRELY bashing the thing, and I actually did like the show very much. I posted this somewhere else today. The script, while clunky, was FULL of typical JMS chock-full-o-meaning lines...

See what we get from Tirk's one huge line:

Tirk: "My mother created it. She says it means 'Don't Touch Me I'm Not Having Another Child Ever.'

1. We could get an insight as to what Tirk's family size might be, and what his mother may have thought of Tirk and his siblings.
2. We get an inkling of Drazi culture when taken into context with the rest of the series. We've never seen a Drazi woman. This line only confirms that they desperately need a women's lib movement.
3. The fact that the DRAZI AMBASSADOR knows Tirk's name implies that probably quite a few high-echelon Drazi know Tirk in some way.
4. "That's not a Drazi name." Another indication that the Drazi are insular, which we've seen before.

All that, from one little exchange.

GOD, I want a series.

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channe@cryoterrace | "I wonder," said Frodo, "but I don't know. And that's the way of a real tale."
 
1. We could get an insight as to what Tirk's family size might be, and what his mother may have thought of Tirk and his siblings.

I took this to be more of a comment on the size of Tirk - at birth - than the size of his family.
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2. We get an inkling of Drazi culture when taken into context with the rest of the series. We've never seen a Drazi woman. This line only confirms that they desperately need a women's lib movement.

I dunno. With that whole "Green!", "No, purple!" thing, I sort of imagined that the Drazi were a matriarchy, and that the females are considered too important to mingle with "lesser" races, so we only see the males in the series. (See, I'm thinking that all this "Green!" "Purple!" stuff has its origins in an important Drazi female dressing for an event. She's unable to decide between a green gown and a purple one - and can't find shoes to match either. Meanwhile her mate waits downstairs and amuses himself by tossing the car keys in the air and catching them, and listening ot her cries of "Green! No, no purple!"
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)

3. The fact that the DRAZI AMBASSADOR knows Tirk's name implies that probably quite a few high-echelon Drazi know Tirk in some way.

Or that the Drazi ambassador overheard some crewman say something to Tirk and thought, "Gee, that's an odd name for a Drazi. Think I'll go ask him about it."
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4. "That's not a Drazi name." Another indication that the Drazi are insular, which we've seen before.

And the fact that they start hitting each other with increasing force right before the scene cuts away indicates that they're still the same homicidal knuckleheads we've come to know and love.
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Regards,

Joe

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Joseph DeMartino
Sigh Corps
Pat Tallman Division

joseph-demartino@att.net

[This message has been edited by Joseph DeMartino (edited January 22, 2002).]
 

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