Comparing: Jesus VS. The Shadows

sassy · Dec 22, 2001

This is going to be a very interesting thread for intellectuals, Christians, and athesists alike, and just people who have never thought about it.

Being as this could become a heated religious issue thread, I just want to say one thing before I start. Your religious views are important. No one can take them away from you, however, not all will agree with you on your beliefs. Please remember, that its ok that we disagree with others opinions, and remember that we are all friends here and no personal attacks on religious beliefs..thanks.

OK..the question is:

what does Jesus and the Shadows have in common OR what are their differences?

I'll start the thread off by quoting interesting scriptures, and you guys can go from there.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

"I have come to cast fire upon the earth; and how I wish it were already kindled. But I havve a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished. Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division." (Luke 12:49-51)

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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This is my "be nice to Antony week"...WARNING~~MOOD SWING MAY HAPPEN WEEK AFTER NEXT...depending on the astrological projection of the hormonal balance.

[This message has been edited by sassy (edited December 22, 2001).]

sassy · Dec 22, 2001

the dreaded double post...

[This message has been edited by sassy (edited December 22, 2001).]

wipster · Dec 22, 2001

Shouldn't it be "what DO Jesus and the Shadows have in common OR what are their differences?"

Sorry, couldn't help myself

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Wipster

"Live Long in Prosser"

sassy · Dec 22, 2001

I dunno..my english skills went out the window being as i am in BREAK from semesters..that and I had way too much to drink last night..lol

thanks though.

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This is my "be nice to Antony week"...WARNING~~MOOD SWING MAY HAPPEN WEEK AFTER NEXT...depending on the astrological projection of the hormonal balance.

wipster · Dec 22, 2001

Actually...now that you mention it...Jesus and the Shadows would be a helluva good name for a band! Nobody would guess where it came from...

On the subject however, I'm not knowledgable enough to render an opinion. If, in fact, that's actually what he said, I have to wonder if the quotes were taken out of context.

Hope your head gets better before tonight

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Wipster

"Live Long in Prosser"

Thrawn · Dec 22, 2001

Actually, I'd ask, if I were in a dificult situation, WWTSD?

I would think the similarites between the two are more numerous than one might think, they both are phrophesied to return every once in awhile, they both are used to inspire fear in the masses, and they both recieve prayers from said masses. Only the Shadows tend to answer those prayers.

Given the season, I would compare The Shadows to Santa .... they both ask people they consider children what they want.

*At this point, Thrawn nimbly dodges the hail of stones and cries of "heretic!" hurled in his direction.*

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THRAWN
Official ambassador
to Babylon 5 from The People's Republic of Haven.

"Grandpa, there's only 49 stars on this Flag."
"I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missoura!"
- Marge & Grandpa

I against my brother,
I and my brother against our cousin,
I, my brother and our cousin against our neighbors,
All of us against the foreigner.
-Bedouin Proverb

GKarsEye · Dec 22, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>WWJD? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is this an acronym? What does it mean?

This sort of thing depends on what kind of Jesus you want to look at.

There is lots of evidence, both historical and scriptural, that tells us Jesus wasn't the peace loving hippie many think him to be.

So, here are a few different Jesuses to look at:

1) Historical Jesus
Way too little is known. Among the many theories, one is that he was an anti-Roman militant revolutionary. Another is that he traveled to India and other places picking various theological influences.

2) Mythological Jesus
This is the Jesus that's in those pictures that Italian people have in their homes. I call him Aryan Jesus. This guy just preached, was very nice, and dreadfully boring.

3) Heretical Jesus
As non-surprising as this may be, Jews don't take too kindly to Jesus. After all, he rebeled against the religious establishment, adopted his own interpretation of Judaism, and was generally a trouble maker.

Jesus 1 and 3 are sort of Shadow-like, in the sense that these Jesuses are very human, and the Shadows are, in a twisted sense, Humanists, sort of. "What do you want?" Some Jesuses may have wanted things that the Shadows would be interested in.

Jesus #2: the Shadows would have no use for him, nor he for them.

Of course, there are many other Jesuses, I only listed three.

They should come out with a series of short films about the Shadows' encounter with various religious figures.

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

coldsoup753 · Dec 22, 2001

WWJD?

What Would Jesus Do?

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Faith Manages

DW · Dec 22, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Thrawn:

Given the season, I would compare The Shadows to Santa .... they both ask people they consider children what they want.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, the Shadows and Santa are alike in some ways. Besides asking what people want, they also are both very old and both try to control people's minds to their way of thinking. Santa wants you to be good all year around, and the Shadows want you to live by their rules. Also, both claim to be watching over you trying to guide you in the "right" direction.

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Have a nice day!!!

Jomar · Dec 23, 2001

I'll just throw in my two cents worth and say I think Jesus is more like the Vorlons than the Shadows. He is the light of the world and he fights against evil. He tells people to love one another.

The Shadows just fight to show how smart, wise, strong they are. In fact, they don't really fight at all, they make others fight for them and they don't love anyone.

I'm afraid I'm not sufficiently versed in religious ideology to make a good case for either side.

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I always seem to be diagonally parked in a parallel universe.

channe · Dec 23, 2001

I think this is a case of Literature Major Syndrome (looking too much into things)...

There are a lot of things that are empirically similar, but look at the methodologies:

1) Jesus was not a peace-loving hippie. However, what he preached was RADICAL: go out, sell all you own, follow me. Hug, touch, and help the lepers, who at that time were so marginalized they had to ring a little bell and shout "unclean, unclean!" whenever they walked around people.

2) The Shadows couldn't care less about the lepers. They'd pit the lepers against the cripples.

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The writer's life is not meant to be a happy one. We all accept that going in. -JMS

bakana · Dec 23, 2001

The title say it all:

Jesus VS the Shadows.

Oughta be a hell of a fight.

The only question is:
Are they going to let the Mu'Ta'Doh referee??

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

hypatia · Dec 23, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jomar:
I'll just throw in my two cents worth and say I think Jesus is more like the Vorlons than the Shadows. He is the light of the world and he fights against evil. He tells people to love one another.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess I finally have to say:
The Vorlons and the Shadows were so into their own power-trips that all other meaning was pretty much lost to them. Excpet for Kosh, until he died. And until Sheridan's "unexpected door" came about.

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"I do not believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense,
reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."—Galileo

hypatia@b5fan.b5lr.com

EntilSedai · Dec 23, 2001

As to those two quotes, regarding bringing division et alius, I may not be 100 percent theologically correct, but I can help illuminate the context of them.

They are both speaking of the division caused by vastly differing opinions. For example, if your family fortune depended on continued male sons and beliefs in your family business, a person becoming a follower of (Jesus) Christ, which at the time included selling all property into the community, and possibly other things such as a commitment to celebacy, would cause the family to become divided. He preached love of neighbour, but in doing so, the believers and the nonbelievers would be brought into conflict.

Hope this helps.

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RW7427 · Dec 23, 2001

I suppose this is the thread where we ask WWJD?

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Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.

**DONOTDELETE** · Dec 23, 2001

...Jesus was born to balance 'our sins' - not to be an adversary of the Shadow. On the heirarchy of B5 powermonkers, Jesus is not there with the Vorlons and the Shadow who are 'elemental' forces sorta like the Sun and the Rain, Chaos and Order, "Lucy and Ethal".

The world is ours to do with as we wish and, for me, we are doing a pretty poor job. We were given all we need to make this world a place of peace and joy, but as I type this thousands of CHILDREN die from starvation in this world "of ours". I don't need some fanatic telling me it's part of a grand scheme to know it's not right. I 'naturally' feel it's not right.

Then again, I've been infected by 'natural morality' - maybe I need a woman...

Merry Christmas - Joyeux Noël!
Gary

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[This message has been edited by Dgarye (edited December 23, 2001).]

RW7427 · Dec 23, 2001

Since it is almost Christmas, I would like to toss out the following for everyone's consideration:

Doesn't the Bible say that the coming of Jesus to Bethlehem is a blessed event? I would think that Jesus' coming to the world and what he did while here are much greater than what the Shadows have done. Jesus was devoted to peace and was sent to save mankind. The Shadows were devoted to chaos and death. To me there is no comparison.

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Lorien: Who are you?
RW: The salad man.
Lorien: Why are you here?
RW: To be the salad ambassador.
Lorien: What do you want?
RW: Everyone to know the joys of salad.
Lorien: Do you have anything worth living for?
RW: Yes, my salad bars.

bakana · Dec 23, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> a person becoming a follower of (Jesus) Christ, which at the time included selling all property into the community, and possibly other things such as a commitment to celebacy, would cause the family to become divided. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FWIW, there is Nothing in anything Jesus is supposed to have said that encouraged Celibacy.

Celibacy was tacked on later, mostly by Paul.
A classic case of
"there's nothing worse than a reformed sinner" syndrome.

After Paul's conversion to Christianity, he somehow twisted
"Stop murdering people over their Religion" into
"everything you ever enjoyed doing is sinful".

Kinda makes you wonder just How Much Paul enjoyed comitting those murders.

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The 3 most common elements in the Universe:
Hydrogen, Greed, Stupidity!

[This message has been edited by bakana (edited December 23, 2001).]

Jade Jaguar · Dec 23, 2001

Oh, good, I get to disagree with G'Kar's Eye, something I hadn't been doing much of lately. I think that your #2 Jesus, the "Mythological, Aryian Jesus" is the most Shadow like -- he reminds me very much of Morden. And I'm afraid that a lot more than just Italians have this light brown haired, blue eyed Jesus in their homes.

The Historical Jesus was a heretic and a revolutionary. But he took revolution to a higher plane. He didn't call for a violent political revolution, but a revolution of the self, and the mind, a revolution of consciousness, to care for others as you care for yourself. That is truly revolutionary, and the Shadows would want no part of it.

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You're speaking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Maid Marian
Fluently! Errol Flynn as Robin Hood
You're talking treason! Olivia De Havilland as Arabella Bishop
I trust I'm not obscure. Errol Flynn as Dr. Peter Blood

Pallindromes of the month: Snug was I, ere I saw guns.
Doom an evil deed, liven a mood.

GKarsEye · Dec 24, 2001

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> There are very good reasons why Catholic priests are celibate, for example, etc. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, they're gay.

Zing!

Jade, please do expound on why #2 Jesus is most Shadow like. And don't make it boring, or else!

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"You do not make history. You can only hope to survive it."

Comparing: Jesus VS. The Shadows

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