Conversion ideas

[B5obsessive]

Hi all!

Here's the thing. My best friend, previously not a fan of scifi in general, has been swayed by my claims that B5 has none of the things she hates about scifi (no plot, a billion complicated words, the usual) and has agreed to watch ONE episode with me to give me a chance to convince her. Her being a fellow fan would be great, as we both love to chat over and analyse what we watch, but my dad gets really annoyed if I talk when I watch with him.

So basically, I need to pick one episode. It needs to show off the things that make B5 great, but not need too much explanation beforehand. Tricky, huh? Would greatly appreciate your (obsessively) (no offence) expert insight.

Thanks much,
B5obsessive

(And yes, I know the subject title's wierd, but you all know where I'm coming from.)

 

[StarForBram]

How about the "In the Beginning" movie?

 

[Jan]

"In the Beginning" would be my choice as well if you've only got one shot at this. Yeah, some suspense will be lost but that's a small price to pay for a new fan. *Next* time maybe she'll take your word for it. <g>

Jan

 

[KoshN]

So basically, I need to pick one episode. It needs to show off the things that make B5 great, but not need too much explanation beforehand. Tricky, huh? Would greatly appreciate your (obsessively) (no offence) expert insight.

"Mind War"

"Let me pass on to you the one thing I've learned about this place. No one here is exactly what he appears. Not Mollari, not Delenn, not Sinclair .. and not me."
-- G'Kar to Sakai in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"Good ol' Psi Corps. You guys never cease to amaze me! All the moral fiber of Jack the Ripper. What do you do in your spare time? Juggle babies over a fire pit? Oops, there goes another calculated risk!"
"You're not helping the situation."
"Lady, you are the situation."
-- Ivanova to and Psi Cop Kelsey in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"Just one question. Why?"
"Why not?"
"It's not an answer."
"Oh, yes it is. It's simply not an answer you like or the answer you expect. There's a difference."
-- Sakai and G'Kar in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"Narns, Humans, Centauri .. we all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time."
-- G'Kar to Sakai in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"I told you before you left: 'No one here is entirely what they appear.' If I surprised you, all the better. Good day, Ms. Sakai."
-- G'Kar to Sakai in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"There are things in the Universe billions of years older than either of our races. They are vast, timeless, and if they are aware of us at all, it is as little more than ants and we have as much chance of communicating with them as an ant has with us. We know. We've tried and we've learned that we can either stay out from underfoot or be stepped on."
-- G'Kar to Sakai in Babylon 5:"Mind War"

"They are a mystery and I am both terrified and reassured to know that there are still wonders in the Universe. That we have not yet explained everything. Whatever they are, Miss Sakai, they walk near Sigma 957 and they must walk there .. alone."
-- G'Kar to Sakai in Babylon 5:"Mind War"


"Revelations"

"Weep for the future, Na'Toth. Weep for us all."
"Are you all right?"
"I have looked into the darkness, Na'Toth. You can not do that and never be quite the same again. When you told me about the destruction of our base at quadrant 37, I knew that only a major power could attempt an assault of that magnitude. But none of the governments here could've done it. Which left only two possibilites: a new race, or an old race. A very old race."
-- G'Kar to Na'Toth in Babylon 5:"Revelations"

"But there may be some dangers that threaten both our peoples, not to mention the Minbari, the Earthers, the League and everyone else around here. Except possibly the Vorlons, I don't know what could threaten them, really."
-- G'Kar to Londo in Babylon 5:"Revelations"

"G'Quan spoke of a great war long ago, against an enemy so terrible it nearly overwhelmed the stars themselves. G'Quan said that before the enemy was thrown down, it dwelled in a system at the rim of known space. I searched for days, going from one system to another. Then, on dark deserted worlds, where there should be no life, where no living thing has walked in over thousand years, something is moving, gathering its forces, quietly, quietly, hoping to go unnoticed. We must warn the others, Na'Toth. After a thousand years, the darkness has come again."
-- G'Kar to Na'Toth in Babylon 5:"Revelations"




Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
<font color="orange">Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; </font>
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of "Spiritus Mundi"
Troubles my sight: somewhere in the sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indigent desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
<font color="orange">And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born? </font>
G'Kar to Na'Toth, Revelations
Quoted sections are shown in <font color="orange">italics</font>. The poem is The Second Coming by William Butler Yeats.

 

[Elenopa]

Thinking you'll probably want one in season 1 before the arc gets going, I really like 'Parliment of Dreams'.

It is a good introduction to all the major races, and G'Kar has a great storyline in that one. I don't remember any technobabble either.

The episode that got me hooked when I started watching was 'And the Sky Full of Stars', but then I'm a sci-fi nut, so it may not work on your friend.

 

[KoshN]

The episode that got me hooked when I started watching was 'And the Sky Full of Stars', but then I'm a sci-fi nut, so it may not work on your friend.

Do you think my choices may be a little to sci-fi for a non-sci-fi person? I picked 'em mainly for the great dialogue and the sense of big things on the horizon.

 

[PillowRock]

Well, I presume that you've had the whole conversation about "novel for television" and "overall story being more than the sum of the episodes" etc. ...... and she still is insisting on *one* episode; not even allowing a sequence of two or three consecutive episodes (which allows a much better feel for the series in this case, and isn't any longer of a time investment than a fairly common lenth movie).

That does make it tougher.

(As an aside, I would take serious issue with falacy that SF is any more prone to "no plot" than any other genre.)

Sticking to "episodes":

Mind War isn't a bad choice.

I'm less sure of Revelations, partly because it spreads itself around among a few different plot threads to the point that it might appear to a newcomer, in the absense of having seen any of what went before, as if there was "no plot".

Some other possibilities would include:

Signs and Portents
And the Sky Full of Stars
Passing Through Gethsemane
The Parliament of Dreams
A Voice in the Wilderness (if you can get her to accept a two-parter collectively as the "one episode")

..... depending on what her tastes and preferences are.

And, starting at the beginning of the actual series, I've always thought that Midnight on the Firing Line wasn't a bad introduction to the series.

If you could get her to go for a fair chunk of one evening (as if you were watching a somewhat long-ish movie) then you could try to build some momentum with the 4 "wham" episodes out of the last 5 in S1 (that's the two parts of A Voice in the Wilderness, Babylon Squared, and Chrysallis).

*Mostly* I have stayed to relatively early in the series, in no small part in order to avoid spoiling too much (the exception being Passing Through Gethsemane, which I don't think spoils too much all by itself). The other issue being that as you get later in the series it gets harder to find episodes that wouldn't need much set up explanation.

One other possibility for a later episode that is heavily dramatic, and could stand all on it's own with only maybe a sentence or two of set up from you would be Intersections in Real Time. Of course, that is one where individual perceptions, both of how much it is appreciated (I'm not at all convinced that "enjoyed" is the right word.) and of how much of a plot there is there, can vary wildly from person to person. It could also be argued that, regardless of how good it is, it isn't necessarily all that representative of the overall series.

 

[Elenopa]

Do you think my choices may be a little to sci-fi for a non-sci-fi person? I picked 'em mainly for the great dialogue and the sense of big things on the horizon.

I wasn't thinking of your choices when I choose mine. It's just that 'Sky full of Stars' is quite heavy on the technical side with the scenes of the Battle of the Line, and the stuff with the cybernet. It is great on the mystery though if you can look past the 'sci-fi' stuff. As I said, it is the episode that got me hooked when I first watched.

My very first episode was 'Mindwar', so must have been good enough to keep me coming back. I must admit the first face I saw was Bester, and I thought, "What's Chekov doing on TV?"

 

[FreeBaGeL]

The episode that got me hooked when I started watching was 'And the Sky Full of Stars', but then I'm a sci-fi nut, so it may not work on your friend.

Do you think my choices may be a little to sci-fi for a non-sci-fi person? I picked 'em mainly for the great dialogue and the sense of big things on the horizon.

I definitely think so. All those quotes aren't going to mean a whole lot to someone with no background in the series.

 

[fisheggs]

"Confessions and Lamentations" Absolutely heart-rendering ending. Definitely not your average sci-fi episode.

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

It may be best to pick a stand-alone episode. I would recommend one of the following:

Deathwalker
Confessions and Lamentations
Passing Through Gethsemane

And, I agree with FishEggs, Confessions and Lamentations might be the best one. Deathwalker is a great stand-alone, but a little less "polished" than the other two. Con & Lam is the more self-contained story with the most emotional impact, and it's unlike anything you would see on Star Trek. On the other hand, Passing Through Gethsemane definitely goes into territory that only Babylon 5 has ever covered.

Another option would be one of the first two cliff-hangers, Chrysalis or The Fall of Night. While your friend may be a little lost on the backstory, at least those two are compelling and intriguing enough to leave your friend wanting to know more.

 

[Elric]

Although season 2 is MUCH better than season 1 (bigger budget, better acting, better episodes), if she does get hooked then some of the surprises will be spoilt. So it is a tough decision as to whether to pick from season 1 or 2.

I think the eps people have suggested so far are the best choices, although I would add Comes The Inquisitor - this is one of my favourites from S2, although it is not completely stand alone.

From my experience of "converting" people. I have had to *make* them watch all of season 1 and then it's not until season 2 that they really start to get hooked. I don't t think anyone I introduced to B5 was particularly thrilled with season one, and thse are mostoly Sci Fi fans.

So, in conclusion, a season 2 episode would most likely have a better chance of converting your friend. I would suggest Confessions and Lamentations, or maybe Inquisitor (but that is a bit more sci-fi so maybe not such a good choice for your friend).

Whatever you decide, good luck...

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Just make it Z'ha"dum and get it over with, then she'll be hooked for sure. Of course she'll have half the story ruined, but that's better than her not watching at all.

 

[Jan]

"By Any Means Necessary" might be one to consider, and one that a non-fan of SF might be able to appreciate.

Jan

 

[KoshN]

Do you think my choices may be a little to sci-fi for a non-sci-fi person? I picked 'em mainly for the great dialogue and the sense of big things on the horizon.

I definitely think so. All those quotes aren't going to mean a whole lot to someone with no background in the series.

Referring to the quotes of Mind War and Revelations, I think those quotes will mean plenty to someone when they watch those episodes.

ps. I started with Shadow Dancing* and was instantly hooked, but I'm a sci-fi fan with an interest in the CGI.

* which was the end of Dr. Franklin's walkabout, not Walkabout as I'd originally thought was the first ep. I'd seen.

 

[KoshFan]

Okay, let's assess the target audience here. B5obsessive, you're saying that your friend doesn't like sci-fi because there's no plot? Then I would say, without question, that you pick an early season one episode that sets the stage for things to come. I think you want an episode that's somewhat self-contained but not entirely -- you want unanswered questions, so when she says, "What about this part?" you can tell her, "Ah, you'll need to watch more to find out about that."

One thing I think you really shouldn't do is drop her into the middle. (Who suggested Z'ha'dum? No offense, but I'll refer to that as the "bonehead maneuver.") Sure, she'll see that there's a plot. She'll also understand little of it, miss the grandeur of B5's arc unfolding, and have what little she does understand of the arc completely ruined for her.

So: I would say that we need an early season one episode. I'd say that the latest we could go for is "Signs and Portents." "Parliament of Dreams" is good but doesn't set things up as well as I'd like. "Mind War" is an excellent episode, as has been noted.

I always though "Midnight on the Firing Line" was a very solid first episode, as there's so much established for the future: the Narn/Centauri conflict, Londo and G'Kar, Ivanova's hatred of the Psi Corps, and the Corps' general perfidy. We also get a quick glimpse of the grandest mystery of the whole show, namely Kosh. We also get Minbari War memories, setting up that conflict. The Presidential election somewhat foreshadows the plotlines back on Earth. Other than the Shadows themselves, most of the arcs of the first few seasons are set up.

So I'd say that it's either "Midnight" or "Mind War."

 

[GKarsEye]

No one for Believers?

You want to show someone how sci-fi in general, and B5 in particular, is unique and special? You want an interesting plot, a way to get familiar with a couple of the characters (you're not going to squeeze them all in and still have a good "stand-alone" viewing experience unless you watch Midnight on the Firing Line or The Gathering). Throw in a kick-you-in-the-gutt ending and you have yourself a potential fan.

 

[PillowRock]

I considered Believers. I like it for much the sames things that you listed (although just how much it flies in the face of what you would expect to happen in TV SF, based on everything that had been made before, might be lost on a complete anti-SF person).

The reason that I didn't list it is that it seems to be such a love-it-or-hate-it ep. Whenever it is discussed online it seems to draw roughly equal numbers of people who really liked those things about it, and people who absolutely loathe it and consider it among the worst things that B5 ever did.

 

[fisheggs]

So, when's the big day? You'll have to let us know which ep you picked and how she enjoyed it.

 

[B5obsessive]

Wow, great response folks, thanks! Here's my thoughts on suggestions so far:

In The Beginning: Good thought, but too many spoilers really. Want her to get to like Delenn, then get well and truly spooked when she finally sees the flipped-out version. (In "Atonement") (NO MERCY! NO MERCY!! )
For the same spoiler-prevention reasons, I agree I should stick to S1. People's faces when they see the "white robe scene" in "Revelations" are just too priceless! As for FreeBaGel's "Z'Ha'Dum idea.......*Ivanova patented double-raised-eyebrow (eg four-poster-beds bit) GLARE*

Mind War: Definitely possible. Am worried she may find Ironheart lines ("You cannot harm someone who has dreamed a dream like mine" etc) slightly cheesy though, so risky.

Parliament of Dreams: A good all round explainer, but nothing outstandingly attention grabbing. Worth considering though.

B.A.M. Necessary: Best idea so far I think. Unusual plot focus, humour, mostly stand-alone but leaves questions. So pending further suggestions, this is top of the list.

Believers is a no-no, too religiously-angled.

Once again, thank you's to Epsilon Eridani and back, keep 'em coming!
P.S. I will give a full report, keep your fingers crossed fr me! Its very nerve-wracking, only having one chance to "sell" this show I love so much. How must "The Great Maker" have felt in all those TV execs offices?! Keep suggestions coming!