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Crusade - The Lost Tales???
- Thread starter Crusader
- Start date
Jan
Regular
I'd like to say that it depends on how much of a continuation it really was. Or whether the original cast was available. But everybody knows that I'm fanatical enough that I'd buy them no matter what so there's no sense in pretending otherwise.
Still, I'd *really* prefer for the original cast to repise their roles.Jan
KoshN
Super Moderator
Certainly!
First, let's hope those sets weren't destroyed. The thing is, to do this right, you're going to need the sets and most (preferrably all) of the original cast and crew. The three unfilmed scripts should be produced first, just to get those FINISHED. Also, they're not going to be able to continue Crusade in the same way they did this first Lost Tales DVD, just a couple of characters per episode and virtual sets. That won't fly.
Crusade - Full cast and crew
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0149437/fullcredits
Of the cast, I'd say that the following people are necessary:
Gary Cole ... Capt. Matthew Gideon
Daniel Dae Kim ... Lt. John Matheson
David Allen Brooks ... Max Eilerson
Marjean Holden ... Dr. Sarah Chambers
Carrie Dobro ... Dureena Nafeel
Peter Woodward ... Galen
Tracy Scoggins ... Capt. Elizabeth Lochley
Alex Mendoza ... Trace Miller*
....plus as many B5 cast as are required by the particular story. The B5 people would ground the show, providing a nice link to the B5 universe.
All of the above requires BUDGET, a Crusade series budget adjusted for inflation. Hopefully, the sets would not have to be recreated from scratch, and all that would be required would be to find them in storage and assemble/paint them, and make new props to replace the props that were sold (e.g. the wrist links on eBay, etc.)
Not that any of this is going to happen, of course, because that would require significant cash from WB.
* OK, so maybe Trace might not be "necessary" but he was starting to grow on me in Ruling from the Tomb.
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I'm not getting my hopes up that this will ever happen in any sort of substantial form, but yes. I'd be all over a proper Crusade continuation.
edit: Oh, and I'm almost certain those sets won't be around anymore. Do you have any idea the amount of money it would cost to keep around sets in storage for such a long time? From what I understand, it's pretty standard practice to scrap sets at an end of a shoot, and it tends to be financially wiser too. It would be a big investment that would have a very low chance of ever paying off at all. And I'd be very surprised if keeping those old sets around in their old state for what is now almost a decade would be cheaper than rebuilding them at this point.
edit: Oh, and I'm almost certain those sets won't be around anymore. Do you have any idea the amount of money it would cost to keep around sets in storage for such a long time? From what I understand, it's pretty standard practice to scrap sets at an end of a shoot, and it tends to be financially wiser too. It would be a big investment that would have a very low chance of ever paying off at all. And I'd be very surprised if keeping those old sets around in their old state for what is now almost a decade would be cheaper than rebuilding them at this point.
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KoshN
Super Moderator
Last I heard,
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-828
...those sets were folded and stored.
But I also came across this:
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16584
...which supports what you say below.
Still, I've got to wonder if it's cheaper than rebuilding them from scratch to match what's already been shot? Wonder what it cost Paramount to keep those old Star Trek (TOS, 1966-1969) sets around to use in the TNG "Scotty" episode, Relics Oct. 12, 1992)?
Yeah, I know that was "Star Trek" (the phenomenon) and Paramount, and we're talking about Crusade and Warner Brothers.
Well, if you carefully read that first message, you'll see it was written in that odd period after the first 13 were finished and it seemed like Crusade was in limbo, but on the other hand that there might still be some hope for a go ahead anyway. The second post was written in 2002, obviously long after it became clear that Crusade was basically dead.
After some quick searching, that example actually supports my argument. Apparently the old bridge had long since been scrapped, and they did the scenes with a combination of pieces of sets created from scratch, fan-created setwork, and some old footage that was spliced in.
I think it basically comes down to the fact that it costs a lot of money to store a set of any sort of significant size. Even if you know for sure it will be used again later, the length of storage needs to be pretty short if you don't want to make a loss on the storage cost anyway compared to making a new set. And if you don't know it for sure, it just because a very risky investment that is beyond a certain point of storagetime almost certainly going to result in a loss.
Crusader
Member
Well even if the sets are no longer in existence, they must have the specs for them somewhere. So rebuilding them shouldnt be too much of an issue.....hopefully. I May not have been clear when i started the thread buti would definitely buy any continuation of Crusade. Its gotten under my skin. Every time i finish watching the DVDs i find myself sorely dissapointed that there is no more. so JMS and WB read this and make Crusade - The Lost Tales!!!!
AnlaShokGrey
Regular
I think it's pretty much a foregone conclusion on a Babylon 5 message board that the majority of the people who post here will buy any new Babylon 5...
Crusader
Member
well if you look on other boards jmsnews for example. There are a number of members who are berating Voices In The Dark, and saying they wont buy any firther volumes of TLT (if any are made). So maybe its not a foregone conclusion
KoshN
Super Moderator
You should see 'em over at Netflix. Good grief, I haven't seen such pissing and moaning in a long time! Go take a look.
I posted a review but it's stuck down on page 4.
Crusader
Member
Ok i know this isnt happening, But if it were the problems that they could face are mainly sets (as previously mentioned) and getting the orgiginal cast.
The majority would likely jump at the chance to revisit crusade but could we drag Daniel Dae Kim away from Lost???
But that said, as they are only doing 16 episodes per season of lost know he should be able to fit in both shows should that eventuality arise?
The majority would likely jump at the chance to revisit crusade but could we drag Daniel Dae Kim away from Lost???
But that said, as they are only doing 16 episodes per season of lost know he should be able to fit in both shows should that eventuality arise?
I wouldn't mind if the Crusade sets had to be rebuilt.. I don't think they'd hold up so well now. I know they were technically better than the B5 sets (they had ceilings!), and that certain areas like the bridge were an unusual shape, but they always struck me as flat (perhaps something to do with the way they were lit) and drab. I felt the same way about the sets in ST:Enterprise, so it's not just that they were dirt cheap, although that didn't help either..
I'm also increasingly doubtful that JMS feels particularly attached to Crusade, at least as a story. It was a very far cry from anything he wanted or intended for the spinoff, and it was screwed with all the way through it's production. If JMS ever returns to any of that material I expect him to do the bare minimum to cauterise the wound and move on (barring retaining some individual characters, such as Galen, of course).
I'm also increasingly doubtful that JMS feels particularly attached to Crusade, at least as a story. It was a very far cry from anything he wanted or intended for the spinoff, and it was screwed with all the way through it's production. If JMS ever returns to any of that material I expect him to do the bare minimum to cauterise the wound and move on (barring retaining some individual characters, such as Galen, of course).
Crusader
Member
He has aid in the past he would have like to continue the story but he didnt feel there was a huge dedicated fan base. and as its JMS if he did return to telling the crusade story it wouldnt be by a half measure as u suggest.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
Crusade is definitely a lost tale.
Clark Kent
Member
The bridge set (and most of the other sets) was dismantled shortly after the original series ended it's first-run production in 1969. Rumors had that pieces of the bridge set had been given to UCLA, but alas there's been nothing. At least two of the three constructed Captain's chairs survived; one is in the SF museum in Settle, WA and the other was auctioned on ebay.
In fact, a major factor in keeping Trek from returning in the early 70s was the cost of rebuilding the sets. NBC wanted to bring the series back after it did so well in syndication and realized that the Nielsen system used in the 60s was flawed, that Trek had been a success with the male demographic. The start up costs of reconstruction forced them to go the animated route instead. (I believe this is mentioned in either The Art of Trek or the 25th anniversary table book).
For "Relics," a pie-wedge of the bridge was constructed from scratch with a rented helm and nav console from a fan. You can tell that it isn't the original set as there are a variety of minor differences. They flipped the set for the close-ups to make it look 360 degrees. A frame showing an empty bridge from "A Side of Paradise" was used as a green screen insert to show Scotty enter.
For the DS9 TOS tribute, "Trails and Tribulations," rotoscoping was used to insert Dax into a scene on the bridge, while a portion was built from her and Sisko to use. A 3/4 set was built for the ENT episode, "In Mirror Darkly" using LCD screens to alter the graphics on the overhead monitors rather than the usual backlit panels.
All were built with the input of Doug Drexler who assisted in the building of the bridge replica used in the fan-series New Voyages.
The sets that were kept by Paramount for a couple of decades were the Phase: II sets built for the aborted television show that become the first movie. Those sets were continually retrofitted for TNG and VOY. The engine room was redressed from those series and by the end of VOY was beginning to fall apart. Those sets were destroyed.
The sets for ENT were the first new sets constructed from scratch for a new Trek series since 1976.
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KoshN
Super Moderator
To revisit Crusade sans interference. Oh, the thought.
Haven't seen any of Lost. How much is DDK in it, every show? Isn't Lost getting pretty long in the tooth by now? Getting near the end?
There is no "minding" about it. They have to be rebuilt. They've been destroyed ("eliminated" to use JMS's word), along with the B5 sets and the Rangers sets. It's all gone, except for the little pieces they used in Babylon 5 - The Lost Tales (a doorway and a Starfury cockpit).
Fate of B5, Crusade and Rangers Sets
http://www.jmsnews.com/msg.aspx?id=1-16584
Well, maybe Kevin Sprach could spruce them up.
Based upon his comments, I am not sensing this at all.
Emphasis added by me.JMS said:
I sincerely hope you're wrong about that (bare minimum to cauterise the wound).
Did B5 have a huge dedicated fanbase by episode 13? Hell, I only found it in the 21st episode of Season 3. It picked up fans all along.
I think you're correct, there. Crusade is too big to be told in piecemeal fashion in B5-TLT DVDs.
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Clark Kent
Member
You're welcome, Kosh.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Of all the Crusade characters, Dureena intrigued me the most.
