Dune

[Markas]

That is a sensible place to end. Thanks!

 

[hypatia]

And today they announced that Part 2 has been given the go-ahead.

I loved the movie. It set the stage for what I hope may be a series of the Frank Herbert Dune books. It defined the characters. But will people who are not already Dune fans like it, when basically all of the backstory was not addressed? Not to mean that I think that was a bad choice, I think it’s the only one a movie can make, really. The backstory is so complicated, it would just choke any attempt at writing a movie-style plot. More on it all may come out in Part 2, as well.

But I was not disappointed, it was a fun movie. And it really was a lot more multi-cultural than the Lynch movie or the Sci-Fi miniseries. It made it feel more of a story about humanity (although by then I’d think the races would be mixed much more, it’s over 10,000 years in our future, after all).

Anyhow, it was great fun, I wonder if there will be a director’s cut.

 

[Ubik]

Off to see this on Sunday at IMAX. Looking forward to it. Consensus amongst fans seems positive.

 

[Moonface]

I saw it three times so far, and I really liked it, but I think it looses pace a little bit in the second half or maybe the third third.

I was also worried that people not familiar with the source material couldn't follow the start very well as a lot of things are only hinted at but not really explained (how do the shields work, why don't they use the fancy laser weapons, the Sardaukar, the missionaria protectiva and a few things more). Any thoughts on this?

Also I was not really happy with a few designs of the CGI, but all in all this are just details, I always find things to complain about ^^

And it really was a lot more multi-cultural than the Lynch movie or the Sci-Fi miniseries. It made it feel more of a story about humanity (although by then I’d think the races would be mixed much more, it’s over 10,000 years in our future, after all).

That's an argument that was made for the other versions with a less heterogenic cast: "It's 10k years in the future, they're all pretty much mixed up by now, so everyone has about the same skin tone". I like the mixed cast way better, and I LOVED Liet Kynes.

 

[Ubik]

And it really was a lot more multi-cultural than the Lynch movie or the Sci-Fi miniseries. It made it feel more of a story about humanity (although by then I’d think the races would be mixed much more, it’s over 10,000 years in our future, after all).

That's an argument that was made for the other versions with a less heterogenic cast: "It's 10k years in the future, they're all pretty much mixed up by now, so everyone has about the same skin tone". I like the mixed cast way better, and I LOVED Liet Kynes.

Yeah, glad to see the cast be more diverse. Makes sense. Had lots of fun laughing at the neckbeard fanboys screaming "DUNE IS RUINED... WOKENESS EVERYWHERE... DUNE ISN'T POLITICAL BRO... Hahahaha. Fucking hell. I am assuming most of them haven't ever read the books.

 

[Moonface]

Yeah, glad to see the cast be more diverse. Makes sense. Had lots of fun laughing at the neckbeard fanboys screaming "DUNE IS RUINED... WOKENESS EVERYWHERE... DUNE ISN'T POLITICAL BRO... Hahahaha. Fucking hell. I am assuming most of them haven't ever read the books.

to cite looney: :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

In what world is dune not political? :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:

 

[hypatia]

I saw a You Tube video of someone replying to some a criticism that it was a "white savior" story. The critic clearly hasn't read the rest of the book series. I hope this director can do more than 2, I'd love to see him direct the entire original series.

I was worried at first that the box office might not be big enough with the HBO Max showing, but the second film has already been greenlit.

 

[Looney]

As I have been quoted I felt it necessary speak up.....

My honest opinion is that I was slightly disappointed, BUT I had high expectations - that thing I always tell people to avoid.

I REALLY like what Villeneuve attempts to do, but he always comes up a bit short for me.

Objectively Speaking
The good: Visually stunning. Amazing Cast.
The bad: I felt it was a bit too drawn out. Chalamet might not have been the best choice.

Subjectively speaking.
I love the Lynch version for what it is - colorful, crazy, bombastic, loud, and out there. I felt like Villeneuve went away from that so much it made his version seem a bit dull. Take the most colorful and menacing character from the Lynch version, Kenneth McMillan's Baron Harkonnen. Have a great idea and give the role to the fantastic Stellan Skarsgard. Have a terrible idea and take color out of the character and just leave the menace. End up with a character who is a bit dull. Of course this opinion is solely based upon a love for the Lynch version and requires the viewer to be familiar with that work. AND I fully recognize this is a part one. We have no idea where things will spiral off from here.

And I echo the sentiment of this being PART ONE and very difficult to judge until you know where the story ends up. I give this film a very positive rating and I am definitely looking forward to the sequels. After all we BARELY scratched the surface of Javier Bardem being a part of the plot and that alone makes for much anticipation.

I would also say this is my favorite Villeneuve film to date.

Speaking of Villeneuve's other work.

BLADE RUNNER 2049 - When I think of that film all that comes to mind is that jarring moment when K goes to Las Vegas. It really keeps me from liking the film more. I don't hate the film, but it just broke that Blade Runner tone for me. Dark and dreary became glaringly bright and I hated it.

 

[Moonface]

I saw a You Tube video of someone replying to some a criticism that it was a "white savior" story. The critic clearly hasn't read the rest of the book series. I hope this director can do more than 2, I'd love to see him direct the entire original series.

In the Lynch Version I can see why they see Dune as a white savior trope movie, in the sci fi channel version they address the point of the book that Paul is not a savior but a false prophet (he and Jessica have a short debate about that while they are at Sietch Tabr (or an other sietch, nut quite sure on this detail anymore)).
In the new version this is also mentioned, as Paul responds to Jessica upon their arrival on dune, that the Fremen only believe what they were told to believe.
I did hope for a less subtle approach on this point as I was anticipating that Dune will get heat for this, if this twist on the story is not made blatantly clear.

 

[Demonn]

So this was my first visit to the movie theater since this whole covid thing started. I was pumped... New Dune, plus it was a major production. I remember getting excited for the ones they did on the sci fi channel. I have never read a Dune book but I grew up watching the movie from the 80s and I've seen the ones on sci fi. I even played a Dune game back on PlayStation or PS2, it was like Command & Conquer.

They played the original theater release version on sci fi once and honestly I thought it played a little better and for a while was looking for it on DVD... but then gave up.

Anyway... After 25 minutes of trailers. I saw 'Part One' and was like ohh no, because then you know this is gonna be the sad movie with a questionable ending depending on where they end it. I was sitting there hoping it wouldn't have a bad ending, and I think it had a good start to finish. I hope they keep doing them because I would like to see the whole story unfold as I've never read a Dune book.

I was surprised the Diamond guy died I thought he made it further in the other movies but that might be my mind playing tricks on me.

Ohh... Then I had to get gas Tuesday and I'm 90% certain somebody syphoned gas outa my car while I was in the theater for like 3hrs. I hope they choked on it!

 

[Moonface]

Ohh... Then I had to get gas Tuesday and I'm 90% certain somebody syphoned gas outa my car while I was in the theater for like 3hrs. I hope they choked on it!

The gas must flow!

But honestly: what the hell? why would anyone do that???

 

[hypatia]

In the Lynch Version I can see why they see Dune as a white savior trope movie, in the sci fi channel version they address the point of the book that Paul is not a savior but a false prophet (he and Jessica have a short debate about that while they are at Sietch Tabr (or an other sietch, nut quite sure on this detail anymore)).
In the new version this is also mentioned, as Paul responds to Jessica upon their arrival on dune, that the Fremen only believe what they were told to believe.
I did hope for a less subtle approach on this point as I was anticipating that Dune will get heat for this, if this twist on the story is not made blatantly clear.

The Bene Gesserit are in the long-term game of shaping humanity, they did lay down the myths the Kwisatz Haderach would need to easily take over the Fremen population. So the story really has deep roots of manipulation and population control on epic scales. And I won't spoil future Dune films for anyone, but there won't be talk about this being a "white savior story" if they do the entire series.

Anyway... After 25 minutes of trailers. I saw 'Part One' and was like ohh no, because then you know this is gonna be the sad movie with a questionable ending depending on where they end it. I was sitting there hoping it wouldn't have a bad ending, and I think it had a good start to finish. I hope they keep doing them because I would like to see the whole story unfold as I've never read a Dune book.

I was surprised the Diamond guy died I thought he made it further in the other movies but that might be my mind playing tricks on me.

Ohh... Then I had to get gas Tuesday and I'm 90% certain somebody syphoned gas outa my car while I was in the theater for like 3hrs. I hope they choked on it!

There has been a lot of criticism about the end of part 1. But part 2 is greenlit, and will be out in October 2023, I have read. But Dune is an epic story, the series covers thousands of years (a bit like Asimov's Foundation series). Even by the end of book 1 it's really just the end of the beginning, as they say. I really hope this director can do at least the first three books, with luck the entire original series by Frank Herbert.

Sucks about the gas theft. That happened to me once at work, I never parted in that lot again and it never happened again. I hope you didn't get yoru car damaged.

 

[Moonface]

The Bene Gesserit are in the long-term game of shaping humanity, they did lay down the myths the Kwisatz Haderach would need to easily take over the Fremen population. So the story really has deep roots of manipulation and population control on epic scales.

Yeah, exactly. But for someone who only knows the movies, this is not made clear enough in my opinion. I already had two instances in which I had to at least hint at people who saw the new version, that they might not be correct about their assumption of paul being the messiah for the fremen, and that they should recall the phrase Paul said to Jessica upon arrival on Dune: "They only believe what they're told to believe"

It is there, but its really subtle. The Bene Gesserit telling Jessica "We did all we could for you on Arrakis" will be dismissed by most people. Or at least they will maybe think about this remark for a little but then all of the second half of the movie is happening with the battles and the visions and the deaths and the creepiness of the baron, and many don't get that the Baron is not the emperor, and this subtle hints will all be lost.
I'm happy it is at least a little bit in there, but I'm afraid to fortify itself against "white savior" accusations the franchise has to be way less subtle about this in the future...

 

[Ubik]

I saw a You Tube video of someone replying to some a criticism that it was a "white savior" story. The critic clearly hasn't read the rest of the book series. I hope this director can do more than 2, I'd love to see him direct the entire original series.

I was worried at first that the box office might not be big enough with the HBO Max showing, but the second film has already been greenlit.

Wow, then they have fundamentally misunderstood Dune as a whole.


I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century was John Kennedy because people said "Yes Sir Mr. Charismatic Leader what do we do next?" and we wound up in Vietnam. And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. Because he taught us to distrust government and he did it by example.”


― Frank Herbert

 

[Ubik]

So, I finally got to see Dune at the IMAX last night. Spoiler free review follows:

I loved it. It gets so much right.

The costuming was beautiful, the composition of shots was gorgeous. The SCALE of it was spot on. The VFX all felt weighty and real, and those things that needed to be imposing were definitely just that. So many scenes inspired awe, which is important in Dune.

The world building was subtle and allowed the audience to gradually buy into the universe without overloading them. Lots of little hints for those that know the source material. All the pieces are carefully laid out for what is to come.

The cast are solid. For me there was no one stand out performance, they all delivered. I was a bit dubious about Timothée Chalamet as Paul, but he brought just the right amount of doe eyed innocence to the role. I never found him exceptional, but his performance gets the job done. We're establishing characters and the world here, so it works.

My only complaint would be Hans Zimmer's soundtrack, which never lets up. Nuance and subtlety don't really feature, it's all dialled up to 11 the whole time and there's very rarely a scene without music. If this could have been pared back a bit, I think the film would have been even stronger. My personal opinion is that Zimmer has been phoning it in for years with the same palette of sounds, and its just a bit dull now.

All in all thought, I came out of the cinema dazed and very happy. This is everything I wanted from a modern Dune adaptation. Villeneuve has taken great care and it shows.

Go see it on the biggest screen you can find. Was definitely worth the IMAX treatment.

 

[Looney]

Ohh... Then I had to get gas Tuesday and I'm 90% certain somebody syphoned gas outa my car while I was in the theater for like 3hrs. I hope they choked on it!

WOW! I thought they only still did that on shows like The Trailer Park Boys. I haven't heard of that actually happening to anyone in years, but I guess that is what we should expect with climbing fuel prices .... and everybody being A-Holes. I could be the biggest A-Hole of all, but I definitely won't be syphoning gas until AFTER the Zombie Apocalypse.

I wonder how many people saw them doing it and said nothing? Of course they could always claim they were doing it to help someone, but I think if it comes to that you have to know they are stealing it right?


AND I AM DEFINITELY CONSIDERING GOING TO SEE DUNE IN IMAX THIS WEEKEND.

 

[Recoil]

But Dune is an epic story, the series covers thousands of years (a bit like Asimov's Foundation series). Even by the end of book 1 it's really just the end of the beginning, as they say.

I'm not sure I totally agree here. At least, that's not the feeling I remember having from reading the book series years ago.


I think Dune, itself, was epic. I think the stories that followed....just didn't fit. They felt tacked-on. Maybe this comes from being spoiled by Babylon 5 in which the story framework was thought out (for the most part) in advance. The Dune novels almost certainly weren't.


I think someone else here may a comment about them, and it's the first time I'd heard to them referred to that way, but it also felt right. The comment was that the Dune book equals were more or less their own different "thought experiments" posed to the reader. That was more or less the core to each of them, and they never felt like a long epic series....they just kept some common names and characters to try to tie them together.


IMO Dune is just fine on it's own, and anything afterward really doesn't fit well as a true follow-on to the story itself.

 

[Moonface]

I think Dune, itself, was epic. I think the stories that followed....just didn't fit. They felt tacked-on. Maybe this comes from being spoiled by Babylon 5 in which the story framework was thought out (for the most part) in advance. The Dune novels almost certainly weren't.

Really? I never read the later books, only the original and some prequels by his son, but from what I gathered (from the mini series and interviews and Quinns Ideas) the first book was primarily the intro, setting Paul up as charismatic leader and him gathering his following. The critique of such leaders then comes in the later books with the Jihads. And after all, the notion that charismatic leaders pose a big problem was the reason Frank Herbert wrote the book, as he said in interviews over and over again (and was quoted here already)

Or did I remember this wrong? It's quite some time since I actually read dune books...

 

[Recoil]

I think Dune, itself, was epic. I think the stories that followed....just didn't fit. They felt tacked-on. Maybe this comes from being spoiled by Babylon 5 in which the story framework was thought out (for the most part) in advance. The Dune novels almost certainly weren't.

Really? I never read the later books, only the original and some prequels by his son, but from what I gathered (from the mini series and interviews and Quinns Ideas) the first book was primarily the intro, setting Paul up as charismatic leader and him gathering his following. The critique of such leaders then comes in the later books with the Jihads. And after all, the notion that charismatic leaders pose a big problem was the reason Frank Herbert wrote the book, as he said in interviews over and over again (and was quoted here already)

Or did I remember this wrong? It's quite some time since I actually read dune books...

Things got pretty funky the farther into the future it got from the original book. I remember the first sequel being OK...although it did render Paul sort of pointless by the end I believe. After that, I just felt any semblance of a consistent story/thread was kind of gone.

 

[hypatia]

[

Wow, then they have fundamentally misunderstood Dune as a whole.


I wrote the Dune series because I had this idea that charismatic leaders ought to come with a warning label on their forehead: "May be dangerous to your health." One of the most dangerous presidents we had in this century was John Kennedy because people said "Yes Sir Mr. Charismatic Leader what do we do next?" and we wound up in Vietnam. And I think probably the most valuable president of this century was Richard Nixon. Because he taught us to distrust government and he did it by example.”


― Frank Herbert

I think a lot of people haven't read past the first book, or only know Dune through the Lynch movie. And that is a great Frank Herbert quote. Interesting take on Nixon.