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Enterprise Season 2 Finale [SPOILERS]
- Thread starter Recoil
- Start date
Y'know, they really haven't shown us much about the time period itself... apart from the fact that the Vulcans see us as a bunch of smelly apes with shiny weapons and that everybody in the Alpha Quadrant seems to be more technologically advanced than us.
I'm still wondering how Starfleet made it to the top of the food chain in only a 100 years, when the Vulcans had been out in space for thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Zefram Cochrane; the Kilingons had a thriving Empire before we even launched the NX-01; the Romulans apparently had their cloaked warbirds.... etc.
Not that I'm opposed to humans being technologically inferior to other races... I think B5 did a good job of it. It's just that we know where Starfleet is going to be in a 100 years and it seems like it's going to have to advance by leaps and bounds while all the other races will have to stand still.
Of course I'm leaving out the formation of the Federation... when you have many races working together, then I guess a lot of things are possible. Then again, we also know that the Earth/Romulan War happens before the formation of the Federation and I certainly don't see how Starfleet could hold their own against them.
I'm still wondering how Starfleet made it to the top of the food chain in only a 100 years, when the Vulcans had been out in space for thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Zefram Cochrane; the Kilingons had a thriving Empire before we even launched the NX-01; the Romulans apparently had their cloaked warbirds.... etc.
Not that I'm opposed to humans being technologically inferior to other races... I think B5 did a good job of it. It's just that we know where Starfleet is going to be in a 100 years and it seems like it's going to have to advance by leaps and bounds while all the other races will have to stand still.
Of course I'm leaving out the formation of the Federation... when you have many races working together, then I guess a lot of things are possible. Then again, we also know that the Earth/Romulan War happens before the formation of the Federation and I certainly don't see how Starfleet could hold their own against them.
Y'know, they really haven't shown us much about the time period itself... apart from the fact that the Vulcans see us as a bunch of smelly apes with shiny weapons and that everybody in the Alpha Quadrant seems to be more technologically advanced than us.
I'm still wondering how Starfleet made it to the top of the food chain in only a 100 years, when the Vulcans had been out in space for thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Zefram Cochrane; the Kilingons had a thriving Empire before we even launched the NX-01; the Romulans apparently had their cloaked warbirds.... etc.
Not that I'm opposed to humans being technologically inferior to other races... I think B5 did a good job of it. It's just that we know where Starfleet is going to be in a 100 years and it seems like it's going to have to advance by leaps and bounds while all the other races will have to stand still.
Of course I'm leaving out the formation of the Federation... when you have many races working together, then I guess a lot of things are possible. Then again, we also know that the Earth/Romulan War happens before the formation of the Federation and I certainly don't see how Starfleet could hold their own against them.
I'm still wondering how Starfleet made it to the top of the food chain in only a 100 years, when the Vulcans had been out in space for thousands of years before anyone ever heard of Zefram Cochrane; the Kilingons had a thriving Empire before we even launched the NX-01; the Romulans apparently had their cloaked warbirds.... etc.
Not that I'm opposed to humans being technologically inferior to other races... I think B5 did a good job of it. It's just that we know where Starfleet is going to be in a 100 years and it seems like it's going to have to advance by leaps and bounds while all the other races will have to stand still.
Of course I'm leaving out the formation of the Federation... when you have many races working together, then I guess a lot of things are possible. Then again, we also know that the Earth/Romulan War happens before the formation of the Federation and I certainly don't see how Starfleet could hold their own against them.
MartinRoth
Regular
Yeah, but the Humans one insurmountable advantage. They had Gene Roddenberry creating the universe....
(Sorry. I'll go away now...)
MartinRoth
Regular
Yeah, but the Humans one insurmountable advantage. They had Gene Roddenberry creating the universe....
(Sorry. I'll go away now...)
Strifeguard
Beyond the rim
Taking a VERY orthodox perspective, not only is Starfleet the head of the food chain in 100 years, but humans are on top of the galaxy at the end of that same time period. I'm refering to one of the movies with the cast of TOS (can't remember which off-hand), where the Klingon ambassador refers to Vulcans as "the puppets of the humans".
On the one hand I think this was explained in an episode of DS9, where Nog, upon studying human history, states that the humans developed twice as quickly as any other space-fairing race.
On the other hand, who knows... Your're right, I don't know how the Starfleet that exists in Archer's time period could possibly win a war agains the "Romulan Star Empire". I guess the obvious themes are "humans advance faster than vulcans, who are too cautious" and "humans advance faster than Klingons, who fight with each other too often" but I wish the themes would be some-how more fleshed out.
Strifeguard
Beyond the rim
Taking a VERY orthodox perspective, not only is Starfleet the head of the food chain in 100 years, but humans are on top of the galaxy at the end of that same time period. I'm refering to one of the movies with the cast of TOS (can't remember which off-hand), where the Klingon ambassador refers to Vulcans as "the puppets of the humans".
On the one hand I think this was explained in an episode of DS9, where Nog, upon studying human history, states that the humans developed twice as quickly as any other space-fairing race.
On the other hand, who knows... Your're right, I don't know how the Starfleet that exists in Archer's time period could possibly win a war agains the "Romulan Star Empire". I guess the obvious themes are "humans advance faster than vulcans, who are too cautious" and "humans advance faster than Klingons, who fight with each other too often" but I wish the themes would be some-how more fleshed out.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
The humans could simply have got hold of a Vulcan encyclopaedia and copied the technology. That could propel them through several hundred years of development in a decade. Real life examples are Japan and Hong Kong.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
The humans could simply have got hold of a Vulcan encyclopaedia and copied the technology. That could propel them through several hundred years of development in a decade. Real life examples are Japan and Hong Kong.
I actually think that would be an interesting twist, especially if you work Section 31 into it... cause from what I've seen, the Vulcans are dead set against giving humanity any technology.
Another thing I wish Enterprise would have explored (because I think its too late now since the series has gone in another direction) is the fact that the Vulcans have apparently had a presence on Earth since Zefram Cochrane's flight, yet they don't seem to do anything but block humanity's advancement at every turn... why would humans put up with that?
It would be different, I suppose, if the Vulcans helped humanity get rid of war, disease, hunger... etc., but there's no evidence that they did. From what some of Archer's comments in season one tells us, humanity did that all on their own, much to the Vulcan's chagrin.
So why would we allow a bunch of condescending doubting Thomases to live among us for that long? Were we just hoping that they would give us some cool technology or something?
Another thing I wish Enterprise would have explored (because I think its too late now since the series has gone in another direction) is the fact that the Vulcans have apparently had a presence on Earth since Zefram Cochrane's flight, yet they don't seem to do anything but block humanity's advancement at every turn... why would humans put up with that?
It would be different, I suppose, if the Vulcans helped humanity get rid of war, disease, hunger... etc., but there's no evidence that they did. From what some of Archer's comments in season one tells us, humanity did that all on their own, much to the Vulcan's chagrin.
So why would we allow a bunch of condescending doubting Thomases to live among us for that long? Were we just hoping that they would give us some cool technology or something?
I actually think that would be an interesting twist, especially if you work Section 31 into it... cause from what I've seen, the Vulcans are dead set against giving humanity any technology.
Another thing I wish Enterprise would have explored (because I think its too late now since the series has gone in another direction) is the fact that the Vulcans have apparently had a presence on Earth since Zefram Cochrane's flight, yet they don't seem to do anything but block humanity's advancement at every turn... why would humans put up with that?
It would be different, I suppose, if the Vulcans helped humanity get rid of war, disease, hunger... etc., but there's no evidence that they did. From what some of Archer's comments in season one tells us, humanity did that all on their own, much to the Vulcan's chagrin.
So why would we allow a bunch of condescending doubting Thomases to live among us for that long? Were we just hoping that they would give us some cool technology or something?
Another thing I wish Enterprise would have explored (because I think its too late now since the series has gone in another direction) is the fact that the Vulcans have apparently had a presence on Earth since Zefram Cochrane's flight, yet they don't seem to do anything but block humanity's advancement at every turn... why would humans put up with that?
It would be different, I suppose, if the Vulcans helped humanity get rid of war, disease, hunger... etc., but there's no evidence that they did. From what some of Archer's comments in season one tells us, humanity did that all on their own, much to the Vulcan's chagrin.
So why would we allow a bunch of condescending doubting Thomases to live among us for that long? Were we just hoping that they would give us some cool technology or something?
A_M_Swallow
Regular
I got the impression that the Vulcans were running an acceptance test - to be counted as grownup the species had to develop a working warp drive spaceship. Following the test flight of the Enterprise the humans may have been promoted to a different category. T'Pol was half helping us.
Making an enemy of the Vulcans would be a very bad action.
It also depends on what sort of restrictions the Vulcans were imposing. Doing the equivalent of tap dancing in a minefield is a bad idea.
With thought you can find out a lot by seeing what you are banned from doing and noting when told to be careful. Be careful can mean you can invent motor vehicles if you want to but there is a better way than using square wheels. Particularly when transporting dynamite.
Are you certain that we did it all ourselves?
There is a long tradition of sergeant majors motivating raw recruits by calling them every name in the book. The Vulcans may have copied it.
Possibly.
A_M_Swallow
Regular
I got the impression that the Vulcans were running an acceptance test - to be counted as grownup the species had to develop a working warp drive spaceship. Following the test flight of the Enterprise the humans may have been promoted to a different category. T'Pol was half helping us.
Making an enemy of the Vulcans would be a very bad action.
It also depends on what sort of restrictions the Vulcans were imposing. Doing the equivalent of tap dancing in a minefield is a bad idea.
With thought you can find out a lot by seeing what you are banned from doing and noting when told to be careful. Be careful can mean you can invent motor vehicles if you want to but there is a better way than using square wheels. Particularly when transporting dynamite.
Are you certain that we did it all ourselves?
There is a long tradition of sergeant majors motivating raw recruits by calling them every name in the book. The Vulcans may have copied it.
Possibly.
That's cerainly not the impression I got. The very un-Vulcan-like Ambassador Soval seems to have utter contempt for humanity. If anything, the Vulcans themselves don't even want to be on Earth (which makes me wonder even more why they're there). The impression I get is that they have a hidden agenda when it comes to Earth. What it is, I have no idea.
Yes, and as you saw on the last episode, Soval wanted her to go back to Vulcan because she's been spending too much time around humans... like she's been contaminated or something.
Who said anything about making them enemies? Like Benjamin Franklin said, fish and houseguests begin to smell after three days. I hardly think that telling the Vulcans, "Thanks but no thanks" would make them our enemies, but then again these are a different breed of Vulcans.
That's the very point I'm making... why would we allow them to impose any restrictions on us? Are they an invasion force or are they here to help us... and if they're here to help us, then what are they helping us with? They seem to be "parenting" us to some degree and my question is why would we allow ourselves to be "parented."
That's another point... Enterprise never explored any of these areas. But if you go back to some of the earlier episodes of season one, both Archer and Trip seem to be of the opinion that we did all of those things without any help from the Vulcans... which is why they're so upset with the Vulcans "holding us back" from venturing into deep space.
I don't think we know anything about the Vulcan's motives when it comes to humanity. From what I've seen, they've already made enemies with the Andorians, it could be that they treated them the same way they're treating humans and that caused the animosity between the two... who knows.
That's cerainly not the impression I got. The very un-Vulcan-like Ambassador Soval seems to have utter contempt for humanity. If anything, the Vulcans themselves don't even want to be on Earth (which makes me wonder even more why they're there). The impression I get is that they have a hidden agenda when it comes to Earth. What it is, I have no idea.
Yes, and as you saw on the last episode, Soval wanted her to go back to Vulcan because she's been spending too much time around humans... like she's been contaminated or something.
Who said anything about making them enemies? Like Benjamin Franklin said, fish and houseguests begin to smell after three days. I hardly think that telling the Vulcans, "Thanks but no thanks" would make them our enemies, but then again these are a different breed of Vulcans.
That's the very point I'm making... why would we allow them to impose any restrictions on us? Are they an invasion force or are they here to help us... and if they're here to help us, then what are they helping us with? They seem to be "parenting" us to some degree and my question is why would we allow ourselves to be "parented."
That's another point... Enterprise never explored any of these areas. But if you go back to some of the earlier episodes of season one, both Archer and Trip seem to be of the opinion that we did all of those things without any help from the Vulcans... which is why they're so upset with the Vulcans "holding us back" from venturing into deep space.
I don't think we know anything about the Vulcan's motives when it comes to humanity. From what I've seen, they've already made enemies with the Andorians, it could be that they treated them the same way they're treating humans and that caused the animosity between the two... who knows.
Glacophane
Regular
What about the Eugenics wars? Shouldn't that be around this time or am I off on my timeline? (Yeah I know, timeline and continuity in Enterprise?)
Glacophane
Regular
What about the Eugenics wars? Shouldn't that be around this time or am I off on my timeline? (Yeah I know, timeline and continuity in Enterprise?)
