Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonight

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

While Archer, evil or otherwise, continues to annoy me, this was a cool episode.

Out of all the captains, he seems to be the most stale. Picard was awesome. I'm not as big of a Kirk fan as most people, but the power of his presence is undeniable. Sisko started off wooden, but then he got the Defiant, grew a goatee, and shaved his head, and miraculously, his persona fell into place. Janeway was annoying, but at least she was "captain-like". Archer seems to be the least captain-like of them all.

You could tell the actors were enjoying their evil personas, especially the guy playing Reed.

I never have liked the Reed character. He's not very likeable, and I think he's too wimpy to be the tactical/security officer.

And the opening credits were so much better than the normal Faith of the Heart.

I guess I'm the only person on the planet who thought the theme song with lyrics was a good idea. However, when they tried to jazz it up with the soft rock guitar, I think it took a step backwards. As far as the Mirror opening credits, it was neat that they did it and surprising they did it so well, and yes, the music was very good.

 

[Mike G]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Cochrane prepares his warp flight .. no Enterprise. He kills the Vulcan. The "evil" universe develops. No brave, great courageous Enterprise E to go back in time to prevent that from happening.
Just where does the Enterprise E come from in the first place?

Oh yea. Hmmm.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

I think it appropriate that Archer is somewhat "uncaptain-like." He is really a scientist/explorer, not a military man, and on a non-military ship, supposedly, anyway. In TOS they made a point that the Enterprise wasn't a war ship. This Enterprise is their first ship. Later, even in TOS, it was moving more towards a military stance.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

I missed the opening, but I have to admit to wishing that ANY Trek show had opening credits and music like that. Even though B5 did it first with "The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father", kudos to Trek for finally getting a sense of humor.

The show was a little goofy. It's hard to watch a mirror universe episode without rolling your eyes.

Was it me, or did Bakula, with stiff collar and buzz cut, look just like Jeffrey Sinclair?

The Defiant. Holy crap! I gotta admit, I find it cool to be back in TOS surroundings again. Big plastic boxes on the walls... And the Defiant's Captain, still laying where we saw him almost 40 years ago. Pretty cool. Of course, there's no explanation for how such a small crew could man the ship without automation. But then we wouldn't have a story, would we? Didn't like the web effect. Too easy, and contradictory. The web is supposed to come out the back. They can't just spray it out like silly string.

I'm really looking forward to next week as the Defiant rips the Empire a new one. Archer wearing the Kirk-style v-neck and pouring wine on himself should be funny. He looks like he's ready for an orgy.

I'm assuming, though, that the ship cannot survive. Otherwise, there'd be a 100 year technology gap across the universes, right?

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

I know it's cliched and all too fashionable to blame the writing for everything, but I really do think it's the reason why Archer is so difficult to handle as a viewer- they kept changing him to fit their pathetic ratings games.

The series began with the idea of a return to old Trek, so they made him likeable and curious, scientific, diplomatic. Then they switched the series to try to be dark and militaristic with the Xindi story arc, so he tried to become a bad-ass.

When you put character throught the wringer like that, it has to pay off. Look at how it was with Sheridan- when he went through dark shit, you felt it, it was relevant and paid off for the story and audience.

In Enterprise season 4, they hid the Big Reset Button and made him the diplomat/explorer again. It made for better stories but seriously hurt Archer. Now he's just a confusing mess of a person. The only character with any traceable hint of reasonable character development is T'Pol.


My "problem" with the theme song (the real one, not the one used for the these recent Mirror eps) is not that it has words or whatever, it's just that it's so fantastically cheesy.

The visual part, though, is gorgeous. Best visual title sequence of any Trek series or film, IMO. The sad thing is that the series ended up being absolutely nothing like what the sequence promises.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

The song wasn't even new. The original, by Rod Stewart (imitated by Russel Watson for Enterprise) was written by schmaltz-pop-hitmaker Diane Warren for the film "Patch Adams".

I wanted the show to be more primitive. I wanted it dangerous like Apollo 13, where just being out in space is enough to get you killed. I also would've liked more "alien" aliens that the crew couldn't understand. It seems like they hit the engines and it was... more Trek. In the first episode, they land at that spaceport and the aliens are like, "Wow, where are you from?"

 

[colonyearth]

All I'm going to say is I LOVED this episode and can't wait for the second part! This season of ENTERPRISE is what the show should've been all along. Had it been, the show would not be being cancelled now. I regret, however, that it will go out on a bad RB/BB episode that will most likely be pale and sad compared to this season. It will go out with a whimper.

I feel sorry for MC...all of his work to turn Trek around, make it what it should've been for a long time now, bring the fans back and make it all solid again is being tossed out...not to mention ripped off by his former boss, RB for a new film that will pale in comarison I'm fairly certain...that is if it actually gets made, which I'm still not convinced it will.

If it does, I'm seriously hoping that RB will no longer be attached to it or anything Trek...and he can take his little dog with him, too (BB). From the interviews I've read with Jendrehnson (sp?), he has not mentioned RB once, only talking about Paramount execs in the features department (which now has new people in charge). I'm really hoping that means Berman's out...and for good!

CE

 

[Ninja_Squirrel]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

I wanted the show to be more primitive. I wanted it dangerous like Apollo 13, where just being out in space is enough to get you killed.

Yeah, instead of phasers, they had lasers. They still had a form of torpedo. Instead of shields, they had polarized hull plating. It's supposed to be more primitive, yet they seem to take as many hits and dish out as many hits as Voyager or Enterprises A, B, C, D, or E.

Their transporter was primitive enough that using it on living beings is risky--but not necessarily deadly, if the plot calls for it to be used.

Their engines only go to Warp 5, but you really don't get the sense that it takes that much longer to get places or that they are limited in how far out they can go in a reasonable amount of time.

The universal translator is supposed to only half work. But if you give it about 5 to 10 seconds--or have Hoshi miraculously translate things in her head (something I found unrealistic even with Max Eilerson in Crusade)--you still get to understand every alien anyway.

Science and medicine shouldn't be as far along, but by having a Vulcan science officer and a new alien doctor, you bypass any human limitations.

Really, what's the risk? It sounds like things are pretty cushy. Trek shouldn't be all about the tech, and you shouldn't have to cling to every familiar piece of tech to make fans think it's Trek. It would have been nice if not every alien was a cliche and not every character were a cardboard cutout.

If they won't fire Rick Berman, they ought to at least force him to sit down and watch Battlestar Galactica, Stargate Atlantis, Seasons 7 & 8 of Stargate SG-1, and of course, Babylon 5. Then maybe he'll see what good writing, good casting, good acting, good character development, and all-around good storytelling are all about. (But it'd be okay if someone told him to ignore the Wraiths from Atlantis. I'm still not totally okay with them yet.)

 

[Chilli]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

I remember wondering with Mirror Mirror .. at what point the universes split. In the interest of how realistic the show was supposed to be, I figured it would have had to be within the last 30 years or so to be in any way plausible .. not that it was really, with both Enterprises beaming their teams down at the same time .. but I'm willing to look over that due to how much the episode rocked otherwise .. has been a while since I've seen it and everything, but I quite remember it being one of my favorites. And I *really* started loving Uhura in it.

Well .. no .. I always loved Uhura // wished they gave her a bit more to do.

One theory I had in my head, entertaining the notion that two paralell universes would somehow manage to remain paralell, that this was a universe in which the Allies had lost the Second world war .. though a world where that had happened would probably have looked very different, yes.

One question to those that have not given up on Enterprise .. in the hypothetical situation that I some day manage to collect the energy to watch the watchable bits of Enterprise .. from where on does the show stop being a complete waste of time about?

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

IMHO, Season 1 and 2 were mostly garbage, I think there was maybe 2 good episodes per season, and maybe 3 or 4 that were worth spending the time it took to watch them, the other 20 episodes per season (S1 and 2) were not worth the time it took. Season 3, had a season long arc, and was, to me, much better than 1 or 2, but it grew stale for me by the end of the season. If it wasn't for Season 1 and 2 being so lack luster, perhaps I could've stayed enchanted with S3 all the way through. Season 4, has been quite good, all the way through in my opinion. So, I would say probably the best thing to do, is watch the last couple of episodes in Season 2, so you can follow the arc throughout Season 3, and then watch Season 4. I don't think Season 1 or most of Season 2 is neccessary, since there are so many reset switches hit.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

My recommendation is to watch the first episode or two of the series then jump to the 3rd episode of season 4 and watch 'till the end, thus skipping the Xindi and temporal cold-war arcs completely.

 

[Chilli]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Hmm .. I guess some spoilers for seasons 1 and 2 wouldn't be a problem here, right?

Who did the future guy turn out to be? Not that I really could make myself continue to truely care after reading Berman say that "they haven't decided yet who they'll make him be"

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Who did the future guy turn out to be?

Which one?

 

[Chilli]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

The guy that was giving the Suliban the orders in the beginning.

And Daniels too really .. wow, I still remember him too

 

[Sindatur]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Well, the Suliban were fighting a Temporal Cold War (although I don't know how you can call it a Cold War, when you're actively changing temporal history, but...). So, they were acting on their accord as a race.

Daniels, (Perhaps one of Janeway's 28th Century Time "Lords) I forget the exact explanation, but, it all gets rewound and becomes unimportant in the first two parter of Season 4, where Manny Coto hit the reset switch to put things back on the right track.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

One theory I had in my head, entertaining the notion that two paralell universes would somehow manage to remain paralell, that this was a universe in which the Allies had lost the Second world war .. though a world where that had happened would probably have looked very different, yes.

That was "City on the Edge of Forever".

 

[Chilli]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Well .. that was the war needing so long that the Germans developed nuclear weapons

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

The guy that was giving the Suliban the orders in the beginning.

I know who you mean, the guy in the future that we could only see hazily, who was giving the Suliban orders. I don't think they ever revealed who it was. I thought they might show it to be someone from the dimension who were trying convert space to their liking, and set Earth and the Xindi at odds, but that was never said. I liked the Xindi arc, for the most part. It was good, but I thought it missed a few good opportunities here and there. Seasons one and two had a few good eps, three was mostly good. All the eps with Andorrans are good. I especailly liked the two parter where Enterprise reveals that the Vulcans have broken a treaty to spy on them.

 

[B5_Obsessed]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Such high potential, such promise.
Such a letdown. Star Trek does it again.
The Gorn was a waste of air time, and the ending was stupid.

 

[PsionTen]

Re: Enterprise TOS Mirror Universe Crossover Tonig

Such high potential, such promise.
Such a letdown. Star Trek does it again.
The Gorn was a waste of air time, and the ending was stupid.

You can say that again. The Gorn being there really didn't make no sense at all except, I guess, for coolness points. And maybe it's just me, but I actually like the TOS version of the Gorn better than this updated version ... Gorns shouldn't be sneaking around in airducts on spaceships, they should slowly and methodically stalk you down on some desert planet while fight music swells in the background.

And yeah, that ending was stupid. Along with the episode about the green-skinned women of Orion, I suppose the theme is that even in multiple universes set in the future, attractive women can still sleep their way to the top ... great message there. But what I don't understand is this: if the mirror universe of Enterprise-era had Kirk-era technology at their disposal (which, I assume, they eventually used to put down rebellion after Empress Sato took over the Empire), then why isn't the mirror universe of the Kirk-era at a higer point technologically when Kirk crosses over to the mirror universe in TOS?