EpDis: A View From The Gallery

[deaded]

As for people watching the battle like it was a TV show why not? People do it here,the Iraq war being a prime example.You can not expect every alien race to have human mannerisms or body language either.

Yeah, that's my point. It's *NOT* on TV. It's in their face. They are right there and presumably they could be killed by a stray laser bolt or the station could be destroyed. And they are lounging around. And you're right, you can't expect alien mannerisms to match human. But these guys are human!

The thing is that the show was of such a high quality that an episode that is just "average" seems worse.

Tru nuf. It was still better than any episode of the Gillmore Girls.

 

[KoshN]

no remote probes

So, just for fun, I decided to actually read through some of the Lurker's Guide synopsis, and what's the first thing it says?

In hyperspace, a probe is destroyed by passing fighters. Shortly thereafter, Capt. Lochley is awakened by a call from Lt. Corwin, telling her of the probe's destruction. "Is it them?" she asks, but the probe was destroyed too quickly to give much information. She gets up and goes to C&C.

When she gets there she informs the command crew that this is probably the scouting party they've been warned about....

I rewatched the episode. Yes, there was that one probe that was destroyed after sending partial info. BTW, some of the ships looked a lot like a Drakh cruiser in shape (not necessarily in size).

So, we've got our probe encountering and being destroyed by the fleet. And Lochley asks "is it them?" and then talks to the command personnel about this being the onese they were warned about. So they've all been talking about and communicating with other governments about the fleet; it's not like the fleet just came out of nowhere. They've been anticipating them. They were warned about them.

So, just because we aren't given some huge endless list of details about this race,

I am not asking for "some huge endless list of details." I just think that these aliens shouldn't have gone "Poof!" at the end of the battle, never to be heard of again, not even in passing, not even a name, as...if...they...never...existed.

... it's not as if the people in command hadn't been getting some information on them for at least a little bit of time; the race wasn't some big and total surprise. We viewers get this episode through the perspectives of two plain maintenence workers, so it makes sense that we're not getting some giant military intelligence dossier on this fleet because maintenance workers wouldn't be getting that information either. It fits the story being told in the episode.

There you go again. I am not looking for "some giant military intelligence dossier." Why is it when I ask for tidbits of info., for the aliens not to be dropped like a hot potato, never to be heard of again, it somehow translates to you as "some huge endless list of details" and "some giant military intelligence dossier" ?

 

[KoshN]

Yeah, blah..blah.. blah whatever. Either it worked or it didn't. They filmed it, they aired it, and it sucked!

Pretty much. That plus some of the lines are practically like eating a 5 lb. bag of sugar.

More than even the ISN episodes. This is my very very most unfavorite out of all 110.

I didn't mind the ISN episodes as much, either, but my least favorite is "Believers." I like "Infection," "Grey 17 is Missing," and "TKO" far more than "Believers."

"Matt what are these things for?"
"What do you mean what are they for? You run them over the floor like this... "
"No, I mean what do they DO? They don't clean it or anything."
"Something for the metal, I don't know. Maybe it makes it stronger."
"You mean you don't know what it does either?"
"No."
"Well, then I guess it's time for lunch."

Give me a break. I'm sorry. I love 95% of B5 but this is absolute crap.

Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me. In real life, you'd have different level techs working on the various systems we saw them working on.

e.g. In a nuclear power plant, the guys who maintain the floors are not the same guys who maintain the Solid State Protection System (which the nuclear operators use to control the reactor). Hell, this was almost as if Chris Carter had written the episode (ref. The X-Files 6X01 "The Beginning"), and that's <u>not</u> a compliment.

Also that, "Tastes like chicken," routine. PuhLEASE!

Routines. They did it at least twice. Yeah, clichéd to the max.

I appreciated the conversation that Franklin had with that maintenance guy (Bo?). I've always identified with Franklin, maybe because I'm an ER doc too, but I've had those types of conversations with medics. Real heart to hearts, where you give up some of yourself, hoping that maybe it will touch the other person enough to maybe prevent them from making your mistakes, or living through your pain. ...Maybe just to let them know that they're not alone in their feelings, that doing the right thing isn't necessarily hopeless, and maybe they are not the only one who wants to go the easy route and give into the system. That was good stuff. Really good imo. But it was just once scene. ... oh and that scene where J’kar talks about growing up in bomb shelters. That was good too.

But then there’s that battle where they’re watching live killing like it’s on wide screen TV. The only thing that was missing was popcorn. Even though they talked like it’s deep, their mannerisms and body postures don’t make you believe that *they* believe that people are getting killed out there. It’s like they are sitting on a stage delivering a speech, not acting in a TV show. More like a demonstration during an acting class or something. It’s just not good. It’s not believable. Not REAL.

Oh yeah, and then there was when Sheridan trusted his wife’s life to two maintenance workers that he had never met before??? Come ON! I just don’t buy any of it.

Yeah, but if you were Franklin, would wou want non-specialists working on your medlab equipment?

And then there’s Byron! Meh. Any episode with him automatically loses a grade point.

Only one grade point? For me, it's two or three.

There goes the tiny little boost that this episode got for the Franklin scene. Nothing else redeems it. I mean, I do understand where JMS was going. I understand that there are many perspectives and they are all just as valid as the other. I do appreciate that there are always people around hearing part of what we say and putting things together for themselves without knowing all the facts; just as we do from other’s perspectives’. But it just doesn’t WORK. It’s dumb. It’s silly; almost embarrassing at times. At least that’s how I feel.

Same here.

 

[hypatia]

Wow, you really enjoy hating this episode.

Then I guess, in a way, it entertained you.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me.

Surely you've had a job that required doing things that seemed pointless. So, I guess you just don't appreciate satire.

 

[fisheggs]

When I first watched it I had an impression of a "Waiting for Godot " homage, with that bit of Everyman thrown in. As far as the raiders never being heard about again, they might have featured prominantly in Crusade, Season 2 or 3, we'll never know.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Yes, there definitely was and element of Waiting for Godot in it.

 

[GaribaldisHair]

Well, since JMS has always maintained that he enjoys starting bar fights over his shows, particularly with his off-format episodes, then I can only conclude that AVftG was an unqualified success, since there are those here who hate it with a passion, and others who would count it among their very favourite eps.

Subjectivity rules ... I love it!

 

[hypatia]

Indeed. :beer:

 

[vacantlook]

I always saw the "what does this thing do" comment as nothing more than just an in-joke between sci-fi show creators and viewers about silly strange futuristic technology props used in sci-fi. I never looked at it as even attempting to be more than that.

As for the aliens just disappearing after the episode, two points. One, it's not like we got every day of life on B5 for our viewing pleasure, they very easily could have caused problems down the road. There is like what seventeen or eightteen years between when Sheridan leaves B5 in "Objects At Rest" and when the station is retired in "Sleeping In Light". Plenty of time for some run-ins there. Two, even if the aliens never did bother poking a stick at B5 again doesn't mean that other alien civilizations didn't ever have any issues with them, but the show is Babylon 5 not The League of Non-Aligned Worlds, so it wouldn't be particularly important to show us any of those conflicts (hell, we didn't even see any of the inner conflicts between members of the League during the Shadow War that the Shadows encouraged).

 

[Jade Jaguar]

Well, since JMS has always maintained that he enjoys starting bar fights over his shows, particularly with his off-format episodes, then I can only conclude that AVftG was an unqualified success, since there are those here who hate it with a passion, and others who would count it among their very favourite eps.

Subjectivity rules ... I love it!

For the record, it isn't "one of my favorites," but I like it. I'll admit that I was a bit put off by it at the beginning, since it is so different from what JMS normally does with B5. But, when I came to see what he was doing, I enjoyed it as a light-hearted, satirical, self-effacing, bit of humor, with a few serious moments, like with Byron, who I do like.

VL's observation is right on.

 

[KoshN]

Yeah, like techs who use the equipment wouldn't have a clue as to what that equipment does. That was ridiculous. How do they know if it's working? You'd let these guys work on your important systems? At some points, they seem hardly more knowledgable than janitors, and at other moments, they're tearing into the defense grid during a battle, <u>and successfully fixing it!</u> That incongruity seems like lazy writing, to me.

Surely you've had a job that required doing things that seemed pointless.

I've never had a job where I was using a tool and had no idea what the tool did. Sure, I've had jobs that initially seemed pointless, but after some investigation, I found the reason for doing the job, and by "reason" I don't mean solely "because I was told to do so." (No, I've never been in the military.) I dunno, maybe I instinctively rebel against being treated like a mindless automaton. <u>There has to be meaning.</u> Otherwise, I'd program a robot to do the job, and I'd be off doing something else.

 

[KoshN]

Wow, you really enjoy hating this episode.

Then I guess, in a way, it entertained you.

But I didn't "hate" the episode. In fact, I can't think of any B5 episodes I truly hate. "Believers" comes the closest. In the TV movies, "To Live and Die in Starlight" comes the closest. In Crusade, "Ruling from the Tomb" comes the closest, but even that is rescued by Eilerson, Trace, Dureena, Gideon and Matheson.

I find ~95% of "A View from the Gallery" to be padding, dull, clichéd and improbable, a waste of time, ...as in "Why am I watching this?" The only good parts are when the camera is solely on Franklin (like when Franklin is covering up the bodies), and Londo & G'Kar (in their own little world).

 

[Elipsis]

I really disliked this episode, in fact I think it is among the worst of B5. I see there have already been many pages of debating the legitimacy of adding in miscellaneous aliens to B5, but to me it just felt like shoddy writing and half-assed story stretching. Yes yes, it could have been normal and blah and blah and we don't know everything about the unknowns of blah blah and such... but it still feels like crap storytelling to me and no argument about whether or not such an attack fits within the believability of the B5 universe is going to change that for me.

Bo and Mack weren't interesting to me - the dialog was more corny than interesting or moving, and the prosthetics were red fucking helmets.

It also really downplayed the awesome dramatic feel that always comes with actual combat on or near Babylon 5. (Remember how rare shooting was in the first 2 seasons, and how epic it felt when someone finally yelled "Close blast doors!"?) Maybe that was the intent of the episode, but I really wasn't feeling it. Any of it.

The only reason it's not a failure was the Londo / G'kar sequence. D-

 

[vacantlook]

I can understand not liking the Mack and Bo characters, but faulting the episode for having "miscellaneous aliens" is kind of strange considering how many times there actually were miscellaneous aliens in the show. We can easily get used to thinking limited aliens because the focus is on the Minbari, Centauri, Narn, and Vorlons so much, but there are miscellaneous aliens that show up once and never mean anything beyond the one episode, so it's not like it's some rarity limited to just this one episode.

 

[hypatia]

That's true: many species, or aliens to us, most likely weren't even part of the League of Non-allied Worlds.

As always, I found this episode one of the best of the last season. Just goes to show you: different people have different tastes.

Although, does the episode make sense in the context of the "oh, it was all just a historical simulation"? But then again, I just feel JMS threw that in, without really considering it throughout the entire show. It's honestly the one sort of "cop-out" in the show, IMHO. It adds nothing to the story, and almost seems like a joke he threw in at the last minute.

But if these really were historical documents, not events that we're getting a real peek into, those historians seem to have had access to some pretty trivial records. Or just made stuff up.

In any event, I like the view from the gallery we get. And the episode adds to the image of Delen being generally concerned and considerate of all people in all ranks. Not to mention it adds a bit of a "?" to the whole Byron story. Just what was he doing, and more importantly why, when he let Bo get a peek into the mind of a soldier on the front lines, fending off the attack. And how they seemed equally sympathetic to the invaders as they were to their own races and their own kind.

Was that a genuine attempt to connect with mundanes, of all races and kinds? Or was it more like a lab scientist observing how his lab rats interact with each other?

But of course, Mac and Bo and their conversations really make the episode for me. The only corny dialog, really, that I remember from B5 was when Penn and Teller guest-starred.

Boy, was that a mistake. At least for me.

 

[Galahad]

Not to mention it adds a bit of a "?" to the whole Byron story. Just what was he doing, and more importantly why, when he let Bo get a peek into the mind of a soldier on the front lines, fending off the attack. And how they seemed equally sympathetic to the invaders as they were to their own races and their own kind.

Was that a genuine attempt to connect with mundanes, of all races and kinds? Or was it more like a lab scientist observing how his lab rats interact with each other?

Well I always took Byron as a quasi-religious figure for his people. If you think of it like that, it has parallels with some of the things Christ did. Most of his ministry was directed towards the jewish people... but then you get glimpses of it extending out in cases of the centurion's servant and the syro-phoenician woman etc. I would say that this was Byron letting the dogs eat the crumbs from the children's table.

Negative or annoying as he is portrayed... I don't see Byron or his people as a malevolent influence until he gets his brain fried by sleeping with Lyta. I really do think that sent him over the edge.

But of course, Mac and Bo and their conversations really make the episode for me. The only corny dialog, really, that I remember from B5 was when Penn and Teller guest-starred.

Boy, was that a mistake. At least for me.

Yeah I agree on that... as for the latter, fortunately the rest of the episode made it bearable

 

[Estelyn]

I really like this episode! I can understand some of the objections that have been mentioned so far, but I am not bothered by them. What I appreciate is the light-hearted and warm-hearted atmosphere, the amusing, often tongue-in-cheek dialogues, the different than usual viewpoint.

I am very amused by the cool reaction displayed by Bo and Mack, right in the middle of the big action beginning. Obviously they've experienced so many red alerts that this is just a "same old" feeling for them. They're only mildly aggravated because they'll have to clean up whatever mess ensues afterwards. They show their trust in the "warrior caste", those responsible for keeping them safe, and are content to stick to their own jobs and capabilities. It's almost a childlike trust, safe in the knowledge that the parents will make sure everything is alright: "Our guys will handle it".

The two actors really make their characters come alive! I get a bit of a Laurel and Hardy feeling with them, though the role of straight man bounces back and forth between them. And I disagree with the idea that the "big ones" wouldn't have to be shown in this episode - it is precisely the fresh view of them from a different vantage point that makes the show so good.

I chuckle over their opinions - and what they say about Sheridan really reminds me of what aged Delenn said in "Deconstruction" - he's a good man. The additional line about him having been dead, "Nobody's perfect", is so funny!

Much of their dialogue consists of questions they're asking on behalf of the viewers. I can imagine using this episode to introduce someone new to the events of the fifth season.

The Ivanova rumours and comments echo the real life events that involved Claudia Christian leaving the show. Londo and G'Kar's bickering (more good-natured than annoyed now) is seen as being like that of an old married couple - reminds me of the "Odd Couple".

I like the scene with Dr. Franklin - some very thoughtful lines there. Going back to him for the final scene is sobering and moving. Worse than any messes to clean up are the losses suffered - and the two characters clearly see and appreciate the meaning of that fact. Even more poignant are the lights above the bodies, saying "Welcome to Babylon 5".

The comparisons for the White Stars are also amusing - first saying they look like plucked chickens, then like angels who fly in to save the day.

What inspires the greatest admiration is finally not courage or military prowess, but love - the relationship between Sheridan and Delenn is the highlight for Bo and Mack.

And one more thing: the bugs that show up all over the station, disrupting equipment, must be the ones that Londo fought with his sword, right? A nice touch, connecting a minor element from a previous episode...

 

[Demonn]

I think this is my favorite episode of Babylon 5... it's tough narrowing it down but, man, I loved this episode & I'm surprised it has such a mixed vote.

 

[hypatia]

It's different, that always gets mixed responses.

It's one of my favorites, too. "Waiting for [I still can't spell that name, Gethsemene?]" I think is closer to my heart (raised Catholic and all that rot), and so I'd have to reluctantly say my second favorite.

The end of "War Without End" just can't be matched, though. "My God! A Minbari not born of Minbari." I am so glad that the story evolved to this, it's just an amazing plot "twist".