EpDis: Acts Of Sacrifice

[vacantlook]

I think one problem a lot of space stories have is background alien species: aliens designed to be in the background of many shots that just don't have anywhere near as much thought and love and energy as aliens designed to be main characters have. And as such, they kinda end up sucking. The Lumati, while being kinda funny for one episode, end up such. Just take a look at their visual design: it's just miscellaneous face prosthetics: kinda boring.

 

[RW7427]

And this is why the Drazi are so lovely?

 

[B5obsessive]

I really love this one, and I side with those who like "the agreement". I know B5 is a smart show, but not every moment has to be intellectual. This is just a bit of silly fun. It fits with Susan's "alternative diplomacy" thing that she started with the Drazi too

 

[Estelyn]

I too must chime in with those who think the "sex" scene is silly. It is also illogical - Ivanova suggested that it could be too strenuous for the Lumati, but he had almost no action at all. I can appreciate the opportunity to see Ivanova from a different (very sexy!) side, but that scene should have been written more skilfully. The punch line with the gift is amusing though...

I did like Mollari's part in this episode. His lonesomeness, which will continue throughout the rest of his life, almost makes me feel sorry for him. He desperately wants friendship, respect - and has become "a wishing well on legs" - a nice, apt description!

G'Kar's change of character already begins here, his movement from a warmonger to a seeker for peace.

 

[vacantlook]

...Ivanova suggested that it could be too strenuous for the Lumati, but he had almost no action at all....

That was just part of the sell, part of the hype, part of the performance; Ivanova didn't actually plan on doing something that would be too strenuous for him. It was kind of an ego attack, making him more willing to go along in order to prove he can handle the strenuoucity. It was a bit of a foot-in-the-door manipulation on Ivanova's part.

 

[Alioth]

With the Lumati being quite into the ideals of evolution and natural selection, I wonder if way back in their history if they had had some exposure to Shadows that built their social philosophy.

Even if they didn't, it's a fantastic bit of classic B5 foreshadowing.

Yeah, "Earth is making interesting new friends", is how I saw this episode (second viewing after knowing how the arc goes). Like ideologies were slowly gathering.

 

[vacantlook]

Like the Lumati's social philosophy could reveal a history of Shadow influence in their species, I also think that we see that with another species too: the Drazi. With the whole Purple-Green conflict, there is really no reason behind that beyond having a conflict to see who'll win in the end, and the winners then proceed to rule their government for the next period until they engage in the conflict again years down the road.

 

[RW7427]

Like the Lumati's social philosophy could reveal a history of Shadow influence in their species, I also think that we see that with another species too: the Drazi. With the whole Purple-Green conflict, there is really no reason behind that beyond having a conflict to see who'll win in the end, and the winners then proceed to rule their government for the next period until they engage in the conflict again years down the road.

I never made that connection between the Drazi and the Shadows before, VL. But now that you mention it, it does make sense.

 

[Orion]

Just watched this ep again after so many years. I remember watching this for the first time and really hoping that Londo made a reconnect with Garibaldi, and stepped back from the dark turn he made. Oh well

 

[Dorvo]

I like the humor of the Lumati scenes, although I do tend to laugh at things easily. Still, what strikes me as really funny is the wonderfully ludicrous disjunction between how exaltedly they see themselves and how absurd they really are. That makes great comedy, and could apply to so many other people and situations.

The meat of the episode though is the further development of Londo and G'kar, without a doubt. I always feel so desperately sorry for Londo here, ironically because he got what he wanted, and he never thought of how it would totally isolate him from others. In very nice symmetry, G'kar also reaps what he's sowed--his thirst for vengeance has partly gotten him and his people where they are, thus illustrating a central irony of the episode: beware what you wish for; you just may get it. And you feel just as sorry for him in that terrible laughing/crying moment after he finds out what Delenn and Sheridan are risking to help him. The episode is cool for them too, how it illustrates that when institutions fall down on the job, it's up to moral individuals to pick up the slack., and how hard this can be when you're surrounded by extremists who'll pursue their agenda regardless of how self destructive and wrong headed it clearly is. Gosh. Applicable lessons here for our own current set of headlines.

 

[Looney]

Acts of Sacrifice = A+++

I think this is one of the most brilliant episodes of the series. There is just so much going on and so much happens in little details. Everything with Londo and G'Kar is outstanding. Everything with Sheridan and Delenn is great. You see that they both want to help and they are both going to help however they can. I think you also see a hint of a spark in Delenn's eyes when she hears that Sheridan is willing to put himself on the line to accomplish this goal. The layers of what is going on is so wonderful. The stakes are so high because if the Narn and Centauri start fighting on B5 it just becomes a matter of time before before there is anarchy. If they start killing each other then others will likely get caught in the crossfire and the might escalate to other races with Babylon 5 being the point from which it spread. I could talk for hours about all of this. G'kar power struggle. Londo's burden of consequence. Delenn and Sheridan stuck in the middle of something they have no real power over. Garibaldi caught in a terrible place with someone he use to consider a friend. Na'Toth stuck between wanting to help G'Kar and wanting to kill some Centauri. Zack's guilt over having to kill the Narn. (Okay they don't go into those last two, but you know it is there.)

Now as far as Ivanova goes I think everything happening there is brilliant, except the sex scene - but only for the fact that I wish it had been done differently. My opinion is that I feel they maybe tried a little too hard to make it funny. Or maybe they just told Claudia Christian to improvise and it didn't turn out so well. Or maybe they were worried about making anything seem to risque. Whatever the case I think it could have been better. And I don't mean sexier or anything like that. I just mean dialogue wise or action wise; maybe more dancing around or something. The concept is great; execution not so much. And everything prior to that is just great.

A chill goes up my spine more strongly every time I see this episode when Correlilmurzon through Taq points out that we have figured away to separate the inferior members of society while at the same time creating a workforce with no power base.

And the best line of the episode might be:

"I'll get the needle." Dr. Stephen Franklin after telling Ivanova he could give her something that would make her ill to get her out of having sex with Correlilmurzon. It just seem hilarious to me that he actually had a tinge of excitement in his voice at the prospect of that endeavor.

 

[KoshFan]

My favorite bit of the Corelliwhatever/Taq plot (which was interesting) is where Taq bows to Ivanova at the end. The servant was quicker on the uptake than the master!

 

[Jan]

Now as far as Ivanova goes I think everything happening there is brilliant, except the sex scene - but only for the fact that I wish it had been done differently. My opinion is that I feel they maybe tried a little too hard to make it funny. Or maybe they just told Claudia Christian to improvise and it didn't turn out so well. Or maybe they were worried about making anything seem to risque. Whatever the case I think it could have been better. And I don't mean sexier or anything like that. I just mean dialogue wise or action wise; maybe more dancing around or something. The concept is great; execution not so much. And everything prior to that is just great.

Pretty much everything she did was in the script and not improvised:
--------------------
And she closes her eyes, lets out a breath...and suddenly
begins dancing around him. THIS SHOULD HAVE A RHYTHMIC PATTER
THROUGHOUT.

IVANOVA
BOOM-shob-a-lobba-lobba, BOOM-shobalobba-
lobba, hey there, hey there,
three bags full...come here often?
Yes I do...DINNERshob-alobba-lobba,
DRINKS-shob-a-lobbalobba, kiss-kisskiss-
kiss, kisskiss-GRAB!
(non-patter)
How is it for you so far?
Before he can answer, she launches into JUMPING JACKS around
him:

IVANOVA
I slept with you the other night
You didn't call, you didn't write
I think you do it just for spite.
Suddenly she GRABS his hand, clutches it between her own.

IVANOVA
Yes! Oh, yes...show me your
portfolio...lie to me about your
family-yes-oh, yes...
She builds right up to a screaming finish, and a yell that
could shatter glass. Then she plinks open her eyes, looks at
him with seeming adoration.

IVANOVA
God, you're good.
And he doesn't know whether to run or go blind.
--------------
See? While it's not a scene that I go out of my way to rewatch, I loved that everything she said was an all-too-accurate account of many dates.

 

[Looney]

My favorite bit of the Corelliwhatever/Taq plot (which was interesting) is where Taq bows to Ivanova at the end. The servant was quicker on the uptake than the master!

Yes that is definitely the best moment of that plot thread. It is a shame Taq did not return after overthrowing his overlords.

Pretty much everything she did was in the script and not improvised:
--------------
See? While it's not a scene that I go out of my way to rewatch, I loved that everything she said was an all-too-accurate account of many dates.

Okay I guess I can see that point. And in a way if you think about it in the Date/Relationship context it kind of taps into Ivanova's cynical nature. I put the words she was saying into that context, but you showing me them written out really made me realize how that could be attached to her personality. :thumbsup:

 

[Looney]

I've noticed people say the Lumati might have been influenced by the Shadows. I agree that it is possible, but I can't help but think it could also be that they were influenced by the Vorlons. Yes Kosh seems to want to help the younger races along, but never forget, "They are a dying people; we should let them pass." from MIDNIGHT ON THE FIRING LINE. That kind of seems like the Vorlons see the Narn/Centauri conflict as reasoning to say they are inferior and should be allowed to become extinct. Maybe they don't think younger races are immediately inferior just because they haven't been around as long. Maybe Vorlons see races as inferior if they are not progressing in a manner the Vorlons see fit. Maybe that is why the Ikarran cultural was allowed to snuff itself out and why the Vorlons didn't try to stop the Markab extinction. Both races wiped themselves out through their own pride and arrogance, which the Vorlons might have seen a inferiority.

Of course the Shadows argument also holds. I just think there is a case to be made that the Vorlons might be involved. Either way the Lumati might be on the same course as the Ikarrans.

 

[tygirwulf]

I think that whole "sex" scene was supposed to be cringey. I certainly cringe every time I watch it! But it goes to show that the ambassador was so caught up in his own sense of superiority that he didn't seem to notice, or he didn't dare admit he got played.

 

[Looney]

But it goes to show that the ambassador was so caught up in his own sense of superiority that he didn't seem to notice, or he didn't dare admit he got played.

VERY true. :thumbsup:

 

[Lennier's Tears]

I feel like the Lumati stuff sort of overshadows the rest of the episode. I know I just said in the previous thread (and probably a few others in the past ) that one of my favorite things about this show is that it has room for some lighter stuff. And maybe I just think that it overshadows because I spend too much time thinking about that whole "sex" bit at the end, because otherwise there is really nothing wrong with that whole storyline. That part, though ... It isn't so much that it's silly (and it IS silly but I can live with silly on occasion ) but ... I am bothered that there is no protocol for this kind of situation. I've said that before in my comments on "Believers" and I DO understand that the station has only been in operation for a few years, and there wasn't any kind of place like that before in human history, so maybe there isn't protocol for every little thing. But humans have been dealing with various other sentient peoples for some time now and this is a member of Earth Force. I would really hope that they have some rules that protect their people's bodily autonomy (and maybe that's a weird thing to say about a military force where people literally put their bodies on the line for a living). I don't think it's at all far-fetched that there would be an alien species that seals deals by having sex (I mean, in a universe that's full of humanoid species), but there really should be rules for humans that say "yea, no, we don't do that" so that no one would have to feel pressured into participating in these kinds of rituals. Clearly Ivanova is feeling pressured to conclude this deal, and I'm a little bothered that Franklin seems to think this is funny. It's interesting because when the guy is in her bedroom looking through her pajamas, she's telling him off, and not at all being diplomatic about it, clearly momentarily not so worried about making this deal.

Also, it REALLY grosses me out when she does her little dance and bites on his hair. Ewwww.

ALSO also, why is it that that "you wouldn't be able to handle it" trick is SO EASY to pull off with all these "superior" races? (See also Se. 3, ep. 5 "Voices of Authority" - "The Vorlons said you wouldn't be up for a fight like this"). I do find it easier to believe in this case beause of the general pomposity on display here

My favorite part about the Lumati storyline is Franklin almost getting into a fight with them, and muttering "I got your strange notions right here!" to himself after they leave medlab.

The Centauri and Narn stuff in this episode is really good, as always. I like how it's made so that you have to feel sorry for both G'Kar and Londo. Londo obviously got himself into his present position, but you still have to feel bad for him. Or I do, at least "A moment of joy in a lifetime of sorrow. Take it while you can." That's pretty good advice, anyway. Not that I would want to have drinks with Londo Mollari.

Garibaldi does a pretty good Londo imitation!

My favorite scene from the episode is those two dudes roasting lizards in Down Below, because LOL.