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EpDis: And The Rock Cried Out No Hiding Place

Interludes And Examinations

  • A -- Excellent

    Votes: 5 55.6%

  • B -- Good

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • C -- Average

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • D -- Poor

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • F -- Failure

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    9
Almost an A, but not quite.

The scene where Refa is getting killed with the Gospel music always wierds me out (in a good way) - only JMS would have joyous gospel singing whilst the antagonist gets what he deserves.

Great stuff, but when compared to the likes of Severed Dreams & Z'ha'Dum (A eps), it does not quite have enough to put it up their with the truly fantastic episodes.
 
I actually like this one more than the Kick You in the Ass Change Everything in the Plot episodes like Severed Dreams. When the foundation is so strong, it's relatively kind of easy to make one of those huge episodes be good. But it's eps like Rock that make it all possible.

More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.
 
More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.
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I agree.

As I've probably mentioned in the forums here before, seeing this episode when it aired for the first time was when I finally shook off some of my stubborn Star Trek geekitude and finally declared that Babylon 5 is better than Trek. As geeky as I was about Star Trek when I was in high school and college, coming to that conclusion was more significant than it my sound.

I think in terms of overall quality and excitement, there may be bigger, flashier, more arc-important episodes, such as Severed Dreams and Into the Fire. But, I would say I *like* this episode even better than WWE1&2, Shadow Dancing, Z'Ha'Dum, Into the Fire, Face of the Enemy, Endgame, etc. Off the top of my head, I might only like Severed Dreams more than this episode.

In fact, even if they're not usually considered the "best" episodes, it's often the quieter, more poignant episodes like Confessions and Lamentations and Passing Through Gethsemane that I put among my *favorite* episodes. In fact, Quality of Mercy is my favorite season one episode, and with competition from Babylon Squared and Chrysalis, I'm probably in the minority on that opinion.

Yeah, And the Rock Cried Out... is definitely one of my favorite hours of TV of all time.
 
I actually like this one more than the Kick You in the Ass Change Everything in the Plot episodes like Severed Dreams. When the foundation is so strong, it's relatively kind of easy to make one of those huge episodes be good. But it's eps like Rock that make it all possible.

More importantly, this one just gets under my skin more. It's more sly and intricate and intimate. Come to think of it, this may well be a contender for my favorite episode.
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
I dunno, I just find "The Rock Cried Out..." just a bit dull. Londo's fascinating as always with his scheming (how come he was never any good at poker? He should be a master at it!), and Refa's death is a great scene, but on the flipside there's the subplot with Sheridan learning to appreciate Delenn and involve her in his life more which just bores me. And the ending is cheesy, and really with all the hi-tech technology on B5 couldn't some computer have worked out the Shadow's plan much quicker than Sheridan?

Its also the last time we see Brother Theo. I can't decide if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I'm edging towards good thing.

I know its a breather between all the intense episodes, and I'm all for having episodes that aren't full of explosions and 'end of the world' conversations (for example, I actually like 'By Any Means Necessary'), I just don't particularly identify with this one. Are people rating it just based on the scene with the gospel music? (And didn't JMS write that gospel music? After Walkabout he seems to be on a songwriting roll)

Wait, why are you all looking at me like that?! Someone has to not like it!
 
And the ending is cheesy, and really with all the hi-tech technology on B5 couldn't some computer have worked out the Shadow's plan much quicker than Sheridan?
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If we could train computers to really think...

we'd create HAL. :)

Analysis is often something that, despite the wonders of computer technology, simply must be done by humans (at this point).
 
No, that's cool. Your post got me to check out the detailled synposis to see if there's anything that I don't like. I found one minor quibble- that the clerics working as underground intelligence were from every major religion, one each. That's just so... I dunno, Sesame Street or something. Let's all hold hands and sing around the world kind of bullshit. Why did only the Baptist minister get a service? And he brought his gospel choir entourage with him?

But other than that my opinion of the ep stands. I'm also reminded of G'Kar's detailed instructions on how to kill Refa, when he's all up in his grill, "Leave the head intact for identification." Cold shit, dude.
 
(And didn't JMS write that gospel music? After Walkabout he seems to be on a songwriting roll)
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No, JMS didn't write the gospel song. Some of the things he said about it from the Lurker's Guide:

-Where does the title come from?
It's from an old gospel song/spiritual.

-Did Harlan Ellison suggest it?
No, as a rule, Harlan doesn't suggest titles; "Rock" came from the quote from the Bible, which was later made into a gospel song, used in the show. So it's a real song, though I did write 2 for "Walkabout."

-Why's it called that? Because it's quite appropos. How do we fit it? Not a big deal. Longest title up to now was one I did for MURDER, SHE WROTE, a quote from Moby Dick, "To The Last Shall I Grapple With Thee."

-The song in "Rock" is an old gospel song. I've always had a soft spot for old gospel songs and spirituals because of their wonderful use of language and imagery, and you can dance to 'em. Not that I dance, but the theory is there, at least.
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Jan
 
I found one minor quibble- that the clerics working as underground intelligence were from every major religion, one each. That's just so... I dunno, Sesame Street or something. Let's all hold hands and sing around the world kind of bullshit.
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On the other hand, if some Interfaith Council type of organization was sending a delegation, then that's exactly the kind of make-up that I would expect that delegation to have.


Why did only the Baptist minister get a service? And he brought his gospel choir entourage with him?
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I had actually always assumed that was a local church choir of people who lived on the station (since there was never any mention of anybody beyond the three of them making the trip), and that the fact that his denomination happened to have such an active local parish (or whatever the appropriate term is) was why he was presiding over the joint service. He was the visiting clergyman with proper credentials / certification to preside in that church.

Plus, of course, there is always the point that just because services of the other religions didn't fit into the 42 minutes of broadcast time does not *necessarily* mean that such services did not take place.
 
I found one minor quibble- that the clerics working as underground intelligence were from every major religion, one each.
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It isn't like those guys were the entire organization. Each major religion sent one representative because spaceflight is still damned expensive. The larger religions would have more members and therefore more potential recruits, religious establishments in more countries and cities, more money, etc. Smaller religions may well have been involved, but lacked the numbers or wherewithal to send a delegate, and so were content to be represented by one of the others.

The Catholics may well only have been represented because Brother Theo and his monks were already in residence.

As was so often the case, JMS was drawing on history in setting this up. Religious organizations have acted performed secret intelligence work from time immemorial. The Spanish missionaries both reported on conditions in the New World and discoveries of minerals and other resources and tried to keep an eye on the governors sent out to exploit them. The Jesuits are famous for their skills as cryptographers and for moving information across borders undetected. (One of these days somebody is going to write the full story of the high stakes poker game played by Margaret Thatcher, Ronald Reagan, John Paul II and Mikhial Gorbachev that started with the Solidarity movement in Poland and ended with the collapse of the Soviet Union. Priests and nuns were providing the West with a much more accurate picture of developments in Poland that the KGB was sending to Moscow - or the CIA to Washington, for that matter. ) During the Nazi era religious organizations similarly worked with local resistance forces, Allied intelligence agencies and military personnel, and one another to provide back channels of communication that were nearly invulnerable to penetration by the enemy, as ordinary spy rings were not.

Regards,

Joe
 
Yes, I know all that- my quibble wasn't with the logistics of it, it was the style. "Oh look, all the religions get along now." It's the kind of thing you'd see in Star Trek, where humanity conquers all its problems. Very unlike B5, were people are still assholes. Plus, the one-of-each-religion thing was done in Parliament of Dreams already. The whole thing is just too... I dunno... cute, I guess, for my tastes.
 
I watched the ep with that song in it last night and I wanted to throw something at my TV and break it to get it to stop. :LOL:
 
B5 score CDs are popular items amongst fans. But what about a soundtrack album, featuring such hits as:

- And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place- B5 Gospel Choir
- That First Song that Franklin's Girlfriend Sings- Franklin's Girlfriend
- And We Will All Come Together (In a Better Place)- Byron and the Rogues
- Hokie Pokie- Londo Mollari
- Fishies- G'Kar
- Centauri opera excerpt- Londo w/ special guest Vir
- And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place (reprise)
 
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