EpDis: Confessions And Lamentations

[Enlightened_GKar]

Powerful stuff. The shot of the near-dead Markab reaching for Garibaldi's aide is extremely poignant. Good writing by having the characters adapt to a situation that is out of their control as well as understanding.

Though it may seem implausible to us Humans, it is quite possible that an intelligent, spacefaring race is so capable of religious fanaticism. Though, this was not meant to be the focus of the show. Sure, the viewer could get caught up on the innerworkings of the Markab soul, but the beauty of this episode was meant to display our characters fighting against an atypical opponent -- a pestilence.

(Not that you are wrong for questioning the Markab's devout fanaticism, I just think that the viewer was left with a complete lack of details regarding the inside practices of the Markab. Ease your rancor for the Markab's blind religiousness by thinking that some agnostic/atheistic Markab ignored the religious ideas centered around the plague, whatever. We just do not know enough about: the blackplot, the culture, and the species to determine what the Markab would and would not do.)

Anyway, this episode does what possibly no other TV show has done in history -- kill the kid. Tribute should be given to JMS for this heartless stroke, because it makes the pay-off that much better. The total biological genocide occurs, and it is truly shocking.

This could easily be an A.

 

[deaded]

No, you're TOTALLY right. That was the coolest thing about this ep. They actually killed the kid. WOW! Freakin.. DDUDE! JMS, you are one SLY mofo!

But still, with all the questioning and angst that occurs in adolescence, how the fuok could not *ONE* single Markab question the historic or biologic validity of a moraly directed lethal virus?

 

[vacantlook]

How do we know that there weren't Markab that questioned the moral reason given by the majority for the virus? They could have been such that when they did actually question that the fanatasism was so strong in those in control of things in the government that those who questioned ended up with ruined careers, so few actually were able to do any big studying about it.

And as Enlightened_GKar spoke on, the Markab are aliens, which includes alien sociology and psychology, which could partially explain why they wouldn't behave in the exact same way an equally large group of humans would behave.

 

[hypatia]

But still, with all the questioning and angst that occurs in adolescence, how the fuok could not *ONE* single Markab question the historic or biologic validity of a moraly directed lethal virus?

VL just covered that pretty well. Who ever said not one single Markab questioned this? The Markab doctor obviously did. He just had a SYSTEM HE COULDN'T WIN against fighting him.

Ever see the move "And the Band Played On"? The men and women trying to understand and fight the AIDS virus were seriously held back because they were in a minority and had little pull with the men who dole out the money for such things.

 

[RW7427]

I think this ep is one of the saddest and most tragic of the series. A disease hits an alien race, and it wipes out the whole race because they refused to believe that it could kill them. They were too busy being pious, and that lead to their extinction. It's sad because innocent lives, like the life of that little girl that Delenn comforted, were lost simply because they thought they were too good for it to kill them.

 

[A_M_Swallow]

So you are saying they deserve to die Mr. Swallow?

Deserve - No.

Unfortunately some actions have their own builtin punishment.

 

[deaded]

And as Enlightened_GKar spoke on, the Markab are aliens, which includes alien sociology and psychology, which could partially explain why they wouldn't behave in the exact same way an equally large group of humans would behave

Very good points. However it's obvious that none of you have ever seen Star Trek. If you had you'd realize that all alien psychology is extrapolatable to human thought processes.

Ever see the move "And the Band Played On"? The men and women trying to understand and fight the AIDS virus were seriously held back because they were in a minority and had little pull with the men who dole out the money for such things.

Yes. Yes I did. Excellent HBO flick with Alan Alda. In fact I lived through that period while I was going through college and medical school. There was resistance but it only took them 3 or 4 years to break through. Eventually the AIDS epidemic was appreciated for what it was/is. NOT a homosexual curse but a seriously fucked-up communicable dz. Sure people still hang on to their prejudices but the pervasive societal blinders only lasted a few years. With the Markab we're talking tens of generations.

 

[macmaccaman]

I went for an A, its undoutably the best "standalone" episode of the series (Dawn was close for me). Though in saying that, it was subtly a big arc episode - with the Franklin Stims thing, the love story and Sheridan's realisation of Keffer's search.

There was hardly a B-story, the John/Delenn thing was the closest! The music was brilliant, and I liked some of the direction - looking back you get little moments in it, like when Franklin takes the stim and then the magnitude of that moment is conveyed by the camera doing that pull back thing. Didn't think much of it then, but in the context of what happened next I thought it was a nice touch.

I like this one a lot! (I just finished rewatching it!)

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

It is a rather powerful episode and it remains one of my favorites for the reason that it is not a standard TV or Trek ending. We have all seen these types of episodes before and we expect to see Franklin save everyone in the nick of time but that is not what happens here. In that sense, the episode is a much better reflection of reality than other portrayals. I will grant you that it is unlikely that humanity would allow religion to prevent it from studying a disease. Even if governments did not fun research, private individuals or companies could pursue cures on their own.

However, the episode is more reflective of the world we live in by reminding us that life does not always end well. We continue to draw closer to creating cures for AIDs but millions have already died. For those victims, there was no last-minute cure or easy solution.

 

[PillowRock]

I will grant you that it is unlikely that humanity would allow religion to prevent it from studying a disease.

Really?

I wouldn't take that for granted.

 

[KoshFan]

In Africa, education about AIDS is certainly running into trouble; and AIDS research began painfully slowly, because the original populations affected by the disease were homosexual men and Haitian immigrants. The religious overtones of the arguments against research were not pronounced, as far as I know, but definitely there.

Also, considering that JMS based this ep. loosely on the AIDS epidemic, he didn't invent it from wholecloth.

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

I will grant you that it is unlikely that humanity would allow religion to prevent it from studying a disease.

Really?

I wouldn't take that for granted.

Well, I make the argument in the sense that Earth is so divided in terms of religious viewpoints. Just as a current example, take the current debate over embryonic stem cells. You have a group of social conservatives who oppose their use in any way, shape, or form. However, they cannot prevent private capital from funding the research. In addition, other government entites--such as the EU--have decided to fund the research.

Will religion, political ideology, and other human ideas continue to hinder scientific discoveries? Yes. Will this interference lead to the deaths of more humans who could have been saved if cures had been researched more vigorously? Yes. However, I do not think that the resistance would be enough to kill all inquiry into a given disease or subject to the point where one disease could wipe out the human race.

 

[Sindatur]

But, you're looking at it from a 20th century Earthling perspective.

Most B5 races have a single world (Or empire) Government, and a single religion. So, it's really not a question of what you believe, but, merely a question of if you believe or not. so, if the "State sanctioned" religion goes against something, it's not likely to happen unless very far underground.

I the Early days of AIDs, nothing was done really. So, to me it makes sense when looked at through those eyes.

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

Most B5 races have a single world (Or empire) Government, and a single religion. So, it's really not a question of what you believe, but, merely a question of if you believe or not. so, if the "State sanctioned" religion goes against something, it's not likely to happen unless very far underground.

Very true and Earth's diversity was identified as one of its strengths several times throughout the show. If Earth had a single religion and a single-centralized government that would not permit research outside of approved limits, then humanity could well face the fate shown in this episode.

I the Early days of AIDs, nothing was done really. So, to me it makes sense when looked at through those eyes.

I see your point and I agree that the hesitation to fully research AIDs cost the lives of millions of people needlessly. Given humanity's tendency to fear and distrust that which it does not understand, I could well see something similar to the early years of AIDs happen again, leading to the deaths of millions more. That still remains separate from a plague that would kill all of humanity.

I do not think we are in disagreement over the folly of allowing prejudice and fear to absolve us of the responsibility to care for those who are suffering. Whether a thousand, ten thousand, or a billion die of a new disease is not the issue. Instead, the episode raises questions about how we as a society respond to those who require aid. Do we put aside our fears or do we ignore their pleas because we view the ill as somehow inferior or tainted?

 

[hypatia]

We already have known diseases that would, effectively, wipe out all human life on Earth.

Like Ebola, they tend to be too effective, and kill off their hosts too quickly to spread that far.

But come one, we already know of this baby. Imagine HIV airborn? With a gestation period that can be in the years? We wouldn't have a chance.

 

[Truth_Seeker]

I gave this episode an A.Probably one of the best stand alones in the series.The tragedy of a whole race which is about to become extinct and the desperation of Franklin are very touching.The bravery and compassion of Delenn and Lennier made me ask myself:"Would any of the humans do what they did?"

 

[Lousy_Dodgers]

I agree that this is a great stand alone episode though arc-wise, it does an excellent job of showing the growing relationship between Delenn and Sheridan.

I also thought Delenn had some excellent lines in this particular episode.

 

[hypatia]

I gave this episode an A.Probably one of the best stand alones in the series.The tragedy of a whole race which is about to become extinct and the desperation of Franklin are very touching.The bravery and compassion of Delenn and Lennier made me ask myself:"Would any of the humans do what they did?"

Well, humans have done that for humans, quite frequently actually. We forget that there have long been people (doctors, nurses, nuns) who have risked death in order to provide aid and comfort to those ailing. Some have, indeed, died from exposure to the disease.

Would an human do that for a virtually unknown alien race? Well, that I can't say by looking at history. Franklin would have, in a shot, if he hadn't been busy trying to find a cure. I think Brother Theo would have, as well. So my instincts tell me "yes, but precious few".

 

[Truth_Seeker]

Would an human do that for a virtually unknown alien race? Well, that I can't say by looking at history. Franklin would have, in a shot, if he hadn't been busy trying to find a cure. I think Brother Theo would have, as well. So my instincts tell me "yes, but precious few".

Yes Hypatia Franklin would have done it because he really believes that every form of life is sacred.

Marcus would probably have done it because he's the kind of guy who lives to help others.

The other one I can think of is the man who thought he was King Arthur in "A Late Delivery From Avalon" because he would do everything to defend the weak.The sad thing is that he was technically insane so he does not represent the average human.

 

[hypatia]

Well, how do we know that Delenn represents the "average" Minbari?

In fact, from what we see of the Minbari, many if not most would not have done what she did. Lennier, it can be argued, did it simply because at that time in the arc he always followed Delenn's lead, no matter where that might lead.