EpDis: Meditations On The Abyss

[Looney]

Yeah I started a rewatch and another rewatch and a few others. I should post after every episode I watch, but unfortunately I either have big gaps in my viewing or I start watching and find it difficult to just watch one. Plus it is true I do just ramble. No one is interested in most of what I say, so I don't count on getting replies. :guffaw:

So here is a Delenn / Lennier question. How is Delenn supposed to act toward Lennier? Not a new question, but a question I don't think anyone will ever be able to answer correctly and still allow Lennier to be a part of the show. She knows the situation, but she also knows she needs Lennier. What is she to do? The right thing to do is put some distance and a whole lot of time between them, but how does she live without his critical support? I definitely agree that her behavior can almost seem cruel at times, but I always ask myself how could she do it differently without cutting things off completely?

 

[Jan]

My feeling is that she *should* have made it very clear that there was no hope then or ever. And he could have still been part of the show and done much of what he did only with Sheridan requesting him to find out about the Centauri rather than Delenn. I'm sure JMS could have come up with a reason why only Lennier was suitable for the job. Then we'd've had the tragi-comedy of watching their awkward interactions.

 

[Talvitar]

My feeling is that she *should* have made it very clear that there was no hope then or ever. And he could have still been part of the show and done much of what he did only with Sheridan requesting him to find out about the Centauri rather than Delenn. I'm sure JMS could have come up with a reason why only Lennier was suitable for the job. Then we'd've had the tragi-comedy of watching their awkward interactions.

This.
I think that they should've had an open discussion about the situation. Bring it all out in the open. Yes, it would've been awkward but a) they were Minbari religous caste and thus I think they were trained to think (also difficult issues) and express their thoughts, b) it would've been correct of Delenn to act how an employer should act (basically that was what she was in relation to Lennier) and take charge of a potentially uncomfortable and flammable situation. She was the ambassador, diplomat, leader - she should've acted as one.
How that could've been done properly within a 40-minute episode without resorting to easy choices is another matter, but, you know, that's how it should've been done had Delenn and Lennier been "real people" as opposed to fictional characters where this whole triangle had to be upheld in order to things to progress as they did... (what a horribly convoluted sentence that was...sorry!)
On the other hand, people don't act rationally, people don't talk openly when it's obvious that would be the only intelligent way to act. People assume, and don't speak out loud. So in that way, B5 imitates life. Yay...

Also, what Jan said: if they had "defused" the triangle in the oldfashioned way of actually talking about it, we might have had a whole other relationship plotline where Sheridan, Delenn and Lennier would have had to figure out how to coexist with the open knowledge of the (un)requited love-issues. Considering the generally excellent writing of B5 storylines, that might have been really interesting as well!

Hello to Lennier's Tears!!!! So good to see you here! I've read so many of your old posts (and agreed with most of them) and thought "oh damn, that was three years ago, that person is not here anymore". I'm very glad I was wrong

I can continue with B5 on Sunday... my kids live with me every second week, and when they're here, I'm not really able to concentrate on my "own" tv shows. With them, it's other stuff, like Stargate Atlantis

 

[Lennier's Tears]

Hi Talvitar, I look forward to your future posts!

I think I've probably said this in other threads, but I tend to disagree that Delenn should have done anything about the "Lennier situation." I mean, I didn't even realize people thought her behavior uncool, bordering on cruel until I started discussing it here. Mostly because I didn't pick up on some stuff that's there (I am very perceptive ), but also because I just don't think that Lennier's feelings are her problem to manage. I mean, sure, she is older, wiser, she can clearly see what is happening, AND she's his boss. She could maybe try to talk to him about it. But, I don't think she was being unclear to him about her feelings, even if she said nothing. I mean, she did marry someone else, that seems fairly unambiguous If he can't accept the unspoken but obvious "DEFINITELY not going to happen, dude" I don't think a conversation will help, either.

I agree that it would be hard for Delenn to operate without Lennier, what with him being her trusted aide. There are going to be things that she simply can't trust anyone else with. She has Sheridan as her life partner and him and other humans as allies in politics/war, but for Minbari stuff, she's going to need a trusted Minbari. How many of those does she have in her life at this point in time? I imagine she's just hoping he'll grow out of his funk. She COULD fire him, but I feel like it's ultimately up to him to decide if he can or can't live with this situation.

 

[Karajorma]

I tend to agree. Delenn is trying to show Lennier that she will always care for him and always be there for him. She knows how he feels for her, nothing is ever going to happen between them but she wants Lennier to know that she isn't going to change her feelings for him. He'll always be her trusted friend and ally. For Delenn that's something she would feel is important. Many people in a similar situation might take steps to distance themselves from someone who has a crush on them. Delenn doesn't want to do that, she wants to give him time to work things out and get over her without changing their relationship.

Is that going to work? Well if Lennier had met a sexy female ranger in training and fallen for her, yes. Otherwise, it depends. But I don't consider it to be an unreasonable thing for Delenn to do.