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EpDis: Signs And Portents
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
Lousy_Dodgers
Regular
I like the episode for many reasons. In terms of the whole battle with the raiders, it was nice to see someone using some strategy for a change rather than just screaming "Fire phasers!"
The responses of G'Kar and Londo to Morden's question are great, though it would have been interesting if Delenn had answered the question too.
The elevator scene with G'Kar and Londo also merits a nod
The responses of G'Kar and Londo to Morden's question are great, though it would have been interesting if Delenn had answered the question too.
The elevator scene with G'Kar and Londo also merits a nod
Estelyn
Regular
This episode is pivotal to B5. It sets the stage for future developments like no other story in the first season. So many significant things happen, it's so well conceived and written and acted and directed.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Delenn "playing" with those coloured glass pieces. Only much later do we find out the significance of that structure - an important arc detail that isn't even mentioned, only shown without comment. Well done - signs and portents indeed!
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Delenn "playing" with those coloured glass pieces. Only much later do we find out the significance of that structure - an important arc detail that isn't even mentioned, only shown without comment. Well done - signs and portents indeed!
If I remember rightly, you see Delenn working with those as early as "Soul Hunter"
Interesting. I never read this. What would the backstory have been for that to have occurred and at what point in the series? I always understood that it was from the shadows attacking like the previous poster wrote.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Babylon 5 would have been destroyed at the end of the series, but instead of being decomissioned as in the finished product it was going to be destroyed by the Minbari, who were being led by the Warrior Caste with the Grey Council having been overthrown. They were trying to stop the Minbari's big prophecy, which the Warrior Caste interpreted to mean the end of the Minbari race (whereas the Religious Caste interpreted it to be the renewal of their race). Part of that prophecy involved Delenn and Sinclair having had a child together. The Minbari would destroy the station in an effort to kill their child before he could grow up and bring about the believed destruction of the Minbari race. Sinclair, Delenn, and their child would escape the destruction of the station on a shuttle.
That then would have been the set up for a spinoff that would involve Sinclair going back in time, grabbing Babylon 4, bringing it forward in time to use in the war against the Shadows (in the original outline, the Shadows wouldn't have been defeated during the five years of Babylon 5) and Earth would defeat the Minbari.
The outline says the the Warrior Caste was responsible for the station's destruction. But also the outline states that all the races were after them, so perhaps they had all come to Babylon 5 to destroy it. The Narns end up being one of the few allies.
Series Brief/season five said:
Series Brief/Babylon Prime said:
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Hmm. I'm glad it didn't go that route. I had always thought that if O'hare had stayed, that the end of the series would've been the War Without End eps, thus closing his character arc at the end.
I understand from what you wrote, Vacantlook, why the Minbari warrior caste went after them. I wonder what would have occurred to cause the rest of the civs to be after them.
Joe, I think you're idea that they were all there to destroy B5 is right on. For the actual ending when B5 was decommisioned, ships from all the races were there to see it. So, JMS probably kept that part in the actual ending.
Thanks for the insight.
I understand from what you wrote, Vacantlook, why the Minbari warrior caste went after them. I wonder what would have occurred to cause the rest of the civs to be after them.
Joe, I think you're idea that they were all there to destroy B5 is right on. For the actual ending when B5 was decommisioned, ships from all the races were there to see it. So, JMS probably kept that part in the actual ending.
Thanks for the insight.
Psi Cop
Member
I agree that if Sinclair had remained the final episodes would have been WWE. It's amazing to see how the original story arc evolved particularly regarding actors leaving the show. I did however feel that some of the transition from Sinclair to Sheridan was a bit awkward, Sheridan taking on some of the arc clearly meant for Sinclair (both had wives involved in exploration/romantic involvement with Delenn). The same for Lyta and Talia (the connection with the Vorlons for example).
According to the outline, the Babylon 4 trip would have been the beginning of the sequel series, not the end of the Babylon 5 story. Sinclair was there to the end of the sequel as well.
On the Anna/Catherine both being explorers thing, I think it more likely Carolyn Sykes -> Catherine Sakai -> Carolyn Sanderson. According to the outline, Sakai was to have her memory erased in season three, which would have happened if she was taken aboard one of the Shadow ships. Catherine being on board the Icarus would not have made sense since Morden and the Shadows were already around in "Signs and Portents" and Sakai certainly doesn't seem to be under Shadow influence during the first season.
vacantlook
Super Moderator
jms's original plan would've had the stealing of B4 from the past be the beginning of a spinoff series, and instead of B4 being taken into the past it would've gone into the future to be used as a moving (B4 had engines) base after B5's destruction. In that original plan, Sinclair never was Valen; according that original outline jms wrote, that spinoff series would have ended with Sinclair living out the rest of his life alone on some planet somewhere fishing.
Teep Trick
Member
Wow, its amazing how, even with a well-outlined story, how major changes can take place, with actors leaving, special effects team changes, all kinds of influences... is that outline here on the website, or do you have links to it you can post?
