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EpDis: The Geometry Of Shadows
- Thread starter vacantlook
- Start date
KoshN
Super Moderator
G'Kar
Regular
Yeah, when I read the Technomage trilogy, I tried to imagine his voice while I was reading Elric's lines.
You're not the only one.
KoshN
Super Moderator
I didn't "try." I "heard" all of the characters played by on B5 and Crusade saying their lines, as well as some others (e.g. Kell by Frank Langella, Elizar by Eric Etebari, Razeel by Juliet Landau, etc.)
vacantlook
Super Moderator
Ooo, Juliet Landau would be wicked cool as a techno-mage.
KoshN
Super Moderator
Especially as the more than slightly crazy, homicidal Razeel (Elizar's sister). A lot like Drucilla.
Estelyn
Regular
I must say, I would have liked to see more of the technomages in this episode - I found their part of the plot weighed less than the Drazi conflict. However, there were several Lord of the Rings references there that I very much enjoyed. The "Do not try the patience of wizards" is a wonderful variation on a great original quote. Also, Vir's encounter with the fiery monster reminded me of Gandalf and the Balrog - I almost expected Vir to say, "You shall not pass"! It was nice to see his bravery in the face of apparent perceived danger. I also chuckled over his mixed-up metaphorical speech on the currents.
Another Centauri is introduced who is significant for much of the story in the next seasons - Lord Refa. His obvious scheming is almost as creepy as Morden's polite attitude. He repeats what Londo said to Morden about the Centauris' "rightful place in the galaxy" - why do they perceive themselves in a role which they really never had? Is it a "big frog in a small pond" syndrome?
I like seeing Garibaldi getting checked by the doctor - this is not a sci-fi universe with instant healing. It takes time, and he has scars.
Most annoying detail - the orange blossom that Elric gives Sheridan. Ansara (whom I remember well from Star Trek) acts wonderfully, and I would have liked to see more of him, but of course he speaks the lines given to him by the author. I hope we lose all those orange references soon.
Another Centauri is introduced who is significant for much of the story in the next seasons - Lord Refa. His obvious scheming is almost as creepy as Morden's polite attitude. He repeats what Londo said to Morden about the Centauris' "rightful place in the galaxy" - why do they perceive themselves in a role which they really never had? Is it a "big frog in a small pond" syndrome?
I like seeing Garibaldi getting checked by the doctor - this is not a sci-fi universe with instant healing. It takes time, and he has scars.
Most annoying detail - the orange blossom that Elric gives Sheridan. Ansara (whom I remember well from Star Trek) acts wonderfully, and I would have liked to see more of him, but of course he speaks the lines given to him by the author. I hope we lose all those orange references soon.
KoshFan
Regular
Once upon a time the Centauri really did dominate -- but it was ages ago, so it would be like the Austro-Hungarians suddenly rising up and saying, "We should rule the Balkans again!" Not exactly a recent claim.
It makes a lot more sense when you realize that Sheridan's been out on long-range patrol, away from fresh food (and basically everything) for two years. He's obsessing because he's been out of contact.
Alioth
Regular
The Technomage Trilogy describes many of the events of this episode, plus some more things going on on B5 we don't see... and of course what happened immediately after their departure*. I had noticed in the episode that Elric seemed to have a rather pained expression on his face the whole time--the Trilogy explains why, and just exactly how pained he was what with the loss of his Place of Power (which became a large part of his being, suddenly ripped out) and the very dire circumstances of the Technomages' journey, and the terrible sacrifice that was to be made.... I wonder if Ansara's acting there was made with this background in mind (did JMS have some of this backstory in mind then), or if the writer of the trilogy noticed this acting too and created an explanation for it. But given these circumstances and goings-on behind the scenes, he actually handled his interactions with people with a lot of strength and grace.
And of course Londo was just so completely and mercilessly exposed here--probably the first real cold hard assessment of his character we see made to his face or even hinted at really. Everyone else saw him as a buffoon (except G'Kar who had mostly personal grudges with him, and the grudge of his people toward Centauri in general), but Elric was the first person we've seen who squarely assessed the serious flaws in Londo's character from an objective standpoint, and took the danger he and his actions posed seriously. (In the Trilogy his assessment is even more scathing, because of just how much of his activities he and/or his order through their spy devices have been able to observe.) I for one found it kind of refreshing, because while some of what Londo did on the show to that point made me laugh out loud and want to like him, I was already seeing him as a liar and a cheat who took paths of least resistance no matter what cost to others--or even himself, unreflective as he was--and no one as yet had called him on it. But he would learn what Elric warned him of, the hard way... and that would make me more sympathetic of him.
There's this poignant exchange:
"I hear billions of voices calling your name."
"My followers?"
"No, your victims."
And of course Londo didn't make a good first impression on Sheridan either (is this the first direct interaction we see between the two?). Come to think of it, I don't think they ever really became friends (his statements in "Objects at Rest" aside), and Sheridan was a bit more wary of Londo than others were, from that point.
* This I kind of had a problem with in the books--if the [SPOILER] explosion of one of the ships occurred right outside Babylon 5 pre-jump, surely there wouldn't have been the quiet ending to the episode we saw. The Trilogy writer should have had the explosion occur after the jump, in hyperspace or at the reentry to normal space wherever the next waypoint was, to fit better with the episode. [/SPOILER]
And of course Londo was just so completely and mercilessly exposed here--probably the first real cold hard assessment of his character we see made to his face or even hinted at really. Everyone else saw him as a buffoon (except G'Kar who had mostly personal grudges with him, and the grudge of his people toward Centauri in general), but Elric was the first person we've seen who squarely assessed the serious flaws in Londo's character from an objective standpoint, and took the danger he and his actions posed seriously. (In the Trilogy his assessment is even more scathing, because of just how much of his activities he and/or his order through their spy devices have been able to observe.) I for one found it kind of refreshing, because while some of what Londo did on the show to that point made me laugh out loud and want to like him, I was already seeing him as a liar and a cheat who took paths of least resistance no matter what cost to others--or even himself, unreflective as he was--and no one as yet had called him on it. But he would learn what Elric warned him of, the hard way... and that would make me more sympathetic of him.
There's this poignant exchange:
"I hear billions of voices calling your name."
"My followers?"
"No, your victims."
And of course Londo didn't make a good first impression on Sheridan either (is this the first direct interaction we see between the two?). Come to think of it, I don't think they ever really became friends (his statements in "Objects at Rest" aside), and Sheridan was a bit more wary of Londo than others were, from that point.
* This I kind of had a problem with in the books--if the [SPOILER] explosion of one of the ships occurred right outside Babylon 5 pre-jump, surely there wouldn't have been the quiet ending to the episode we saw. The Trilogy writer should have had the explosion occur after the jump, in hyperspace or at the reentry to normal space wherever the next waypoint was, to fit better with the episode. [/SPOILER]
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Lennier's Tears
Regular
The Geometry of Shadows is the first Babylon 5 episode I ever (sort of, partially) watched. I happened to catch part of it on the TV one night, but I was busy with other stuff so I didn't really see much of it, and it wasn't until later that I really got into it and started watching from the beginning on VHS. Still, I remember which episode it was, and I'm sort of fond of it for that reason, as well as the technomage thing.
I like the technomages, although I have so many questions about them that are never answered. I think I posted about that in some of the Crusade threads. Maybe if I read the books/comics I would know, but I have as of yet not gotten my hands on any technomage material.
I like the technomage aesthetics, especially Elric's outfit and general look. I like the general sort of magical quality about them.
I like the Centauri stuff that's going on in this episode as well. I always enjoy an appearance by the Refa character. He was great.
The purple/green stuff ... I have SO many questions about that, too. This is one of those episodes where I sit and watch and wonder how the Drazi are technologically advanced enough to go into space. But, that aside, the green/purple thing is a long tradition that is repeated every five years. It apparently transcends kinship ties or any kind of social grouping, which is REALLY weird. I understand that they are aliens, and thus shouldn't be expected to be organized in a way that makes sense to humans, but ... we've seen their planet, their cities (well not yet at this point in the story, but we will), and those cities are remarkably similar to human cities, their society doesn't seem all that different from ours. I just don't see this green/purple thing working at all, especially when they start actually killing each other. How coincidental that that starts happening the one year they have taken the fight to Babylon 5.....
All that said, the scene in council chambers, where Ivanova is trying to mediate, and wants to understand the nature of the conflict ...the facial expressions on those Drazi when they say "Purple!!" and "Green!" as though that explains everything ... still makes me laugh every time.
Stuff and things:
I like the technomages, although I have so many questions about them that are never answered. I think I posted about that in some of the Crusade threads. Maybe if I read the books/comics I would know, but I have as of yet not gotten my hands on any technomage material.
I like the technomage aesthetics, especially Elric's outfit and general look. I like the general sort of magical quality about them.
I like the Centauri stuff that's going on in this episode as well. I always enjoy an appearance by the Refa character. He was great.
The purple/green stuff ... I have SO many questions about that, too. This is one of those episodes where I sit and watch and wonder how the Drazi are technologically advanced enough to go into space. But, that aside, the green/purple thing is a long tradition that is repeated every five years. It apparently transcends kinship ties or any kind of social grouping, which is REALLY weird. I understand that they are aliens, and thus shouldn't be expected to be organized in a way that makes sense to humans, but ... we've seen their planet, their cities (well not yet at this point in the story, but we will), and those cities are remarkably similar to human cities, their society doesn't seem all that different from ours. I just don't see this green/purple thing working at all, especially when they start actually killing each other. How coincidental that that starts happening the one year they have taken the fight to Babylon 5.....
All that said, the scene in council chambers, where Ivanova is trying to mediate, and wants to understand the nature of the conflict ...the facial expressions on those Drazi when they say "Purple!!" and "Green!" as though that explains everything ... still makes me laugh every time.
Stuff and things:
- Is Londo's room fancier than it used to be?
- Vir's offended look when Refa implies he and Londo can't speak freely in front of him is pretty great, and is followed by his look of absolute horror when Londo and Refa discuss overthrowing their government.
- Why does Earthgov have any business meddling in the affairs of the technomages as they are leaving? They can control who immigrates into their jurisdiction, but why do they expect to be able to control emigration?
- Why didn't Ivanova's page go through when she tried to call security?
- Lou Welch fell for that fake call from Ivanova's link?? They really do need Garibaldi around the place ...
- Does Garibaldi have a thing for the mid-20th century? Why is he so familiar with door-to-door sales pitches that ask for the "lady of the house"? He does also seem to like 20th century cartoons, so I'm going to go with "yes, yes he does"
The technomages are better left to the imagination than explored. The book series following Londo 20 years after the tv series ended had technomages and they were actually kind of lame. I'd assume they get better treatment in whichever book series was actually about them, but.... meh.
JamesBondJR
New member
Doing my second watching (first watch for my wife) and felt I had to write a line here about how great Michael Ansara was in this. I had forgot all about the techno-mages and it really pleased me to revisit them.
It was satisfying to see Cheridan getting so charmed with just a few words and an orange blossom - likely because I felt the way he did. Londos quarters getting harassed by a demonic computer virus was amusing too.
Also: was that Narn opera spoof a Trek reference? Perhaps because of Ansaras guest appearance... I would think so
It was satisfying to see Cheridan getting so charmed with just a few words and an orange blossom - likely because I felt the way he did. Londos quarters getting harassed by a demonic computer virus was amusing too.
Also: was that Narn opera spoof a Trek reference? Perhaps because of Ansaras guest appearance... I would think so
vacantlook
Super Moderator
I wonder if jms's Babylon 5 reboot ever happens if it might contain more of the technomages than we got in the original B5 series.
Looney
Regular
I would say there are two things you can definitely plan on seeing in a B5 Reboot.....
More, but not likely too many Technomage plot lines.
And definitely a more in depth arc involving Psi Corps. I mean come on, Psi Corps is kind of a huge dangling thread that was never finished off, so I'm sure JMS will include more plot lines that get to a Psi Corps point sooner rather than later. LOL
Looney
Regular
VERY true! Even a huge hit like Stranger Things are going to likely finish the series around 50 episodes. Game of Thrones broke the new norm and made it to 73 episodes. A plus could be that if the re-boot moves to a streamer it could take a page out of what Seth MacFarlane did with The Orville last season and have 70min+ episodes, something I've always said I wished the original series had. I mean I wanted to see them find the artifacts on Ikara 7 and who wouldn't want more exposition like that.
But yes there is DEFINITELY an uphill battle coming for JMS to tell a complete story in a limited number of episodes.
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