EpDis: The Legend of the Rangers

[KoshN]

Nah. She never really did anything for me. She was OK, but nothing to write home about IMO.

Same here.

 

[Babylon5fan07]

Well I finally was able to see the movie. I just completed all the B5 episodes and movies (although I still don't own the Crusade series yet but in the next couple months I do plan to pick it up.)

Overall I didn't think LoTR was that bad of a movie. Backing up to the Gathering for a moment. Personally on it's own I think it's a great movie..it sets up the Babylon 5 story even though for some people like myself you have to watch it in succession after seeing ITB. But back to LoTR I didn't think it was a bad movie. Sarah in the weapons room isn't what bothered me so much it was at one point when she was shooting so much at once she was screaming horribly. The acting wasn't horrible for me I've seen much worse on tv and in movies but at Babylon 5 standards..oviously G'Kar and David for me were the best. After watching the movie now I think it's a better movie than The River of Souls. I rated LoTR as Good so in a grade overall I would give it a B- at the worst.

What really sold me about the movie was the special effects and the story. Being that this movie came out in 2002 (3 years after season 5 ended) the special effects finally had the chance to catch up and I thought they were magnificantly done. G'Kar and David did a fantastic job acting while everyone else was not up to standards but still pretty good. I realize the story wasn't the best in the world but it kept my interest alot more than TRoS. For me the best part of LoTR was at the end of the movie though when G'Kar said if you do go on Babylon 5 remember no one is who they appear (I'm not quoting because I've seen the movie only once and that was 2 days ago) which is the memorable line he said to Catherine Sakai and then of course the great shot of B5 with the 5th season theme.

Again not too many complaints for me overall a pretty good one!

Alex

 

[Alioth]

Just watched this for the first time. Meh, probably a C from me.

As for the weapons system, I was wondering WTF too. Maybe that the Rangers did it that way because they wanted to impart the mind-body-spirit discipline aspects of martial arts onto space warfare or something weird like that... and then I thought, naah, eye candy. At least she wasn't bad eye candy. But the toned-up badass female is pretty cliche in sci-fi. Well, pretty cliche in the whole wide action genre.... But I'd have gotten over it , were it not for, as has been mentioned, its not making functional sense. I mean, being weightless with a spherical view of all space around you definitely has advantages and is a good idea, but there's no reason to exert physically with each shot, instead of point, or (since it looked like there was some interface element tied in with her eyes) merely look (and maybe make a simple physical movement to indicate a "fire" command at what you're looking at). Why make a weapons system that depends on the physical stamina of its operator, that also makes heavy demands on that stamina thus further limiting it, when that doesn't seem at all necessary? It's not like the force of the exertions is what powers the weapons.

And as for the Hand... this was the first I'd heard of this great billions-year-old (they didn't get all the First Ones out after all?) power that "made the Shadows look like insects", in all the stuff I've seen and read that came after their appearance chronologically. Although there are still a few Crusade eps I haven't watched yet, and the last part of the Psi Corps trilogy, maybe someone mentions this devastating apocalyptic menace in one of those... although for some reason I suspect not. It just seems like something grafted onto the B5 universe, that then went nowhere (as far as there being a series, as was intended), and was ignored from there on out. (Unless LotR was conceived and written after the other stuff, which then makes the Hand sort of akin to the Xinti in the Trek universe, a key part of history added on, that somehow would never be mentioned again in the future). If I'm wrong and there is other reference to the Hand outside this movie, correct me.

I think as far as spinoff ideas, Crusade was by far the more intriguing of the two, in that the mission was a quest for specific knowledge with no real initial leads and a dire deadline, rather than just more space battles (actually, I'm not sure what the premise of this show was supposed to be--this pilot doesn't really lay out one, unlike A Call to Arms did for Crusade--but the Rangers were an elite warrior/commando corps with starships, so...).

 

[Jan]

Why take what Kafta said at face value? What's he supposed to say, "Yeah, the Hand...they're really not so hot...and really not very bright. But my planet is so wimpy we just folded."? He's their lackey and has to do what he can to make the Rangers fear them-it's his job.

And why assume that the Hand are First Ones? A race can be old but not reach FO status, judging from what JMS has said in the past. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that we never heard of even a small percentage of the races that exist in the B5 universe. As (I think) Uhura once said, "It's a big galaxy, Mr. Scott".

Rangers definitely had its flaws but I really liked the characters and the chemistry that the crew had, even on the first show.

Jan

 

[Triple F]

Just watched this for the first time. Meh, probably a C from me.

As for the weapons system, I was wondering WTF too. Maybe that the Rangers did it that way because they wanted to impart the mind-body-spirit discipline aspects of martial arts onto space warfare or something weird like that... and then I thought, naah, eye candy. At least she wasn't bad eye candy. But the toned-up badass female is pretty cliche in sci-fi. Well, pretty cliche in the whole wide action genre.... But I'd have gotten over it , were it not for, as has been mentioned, its not making functional sense. I mean, being weightless with a spherical view of all space around you definitely has advantages and is a good idea, but there's no reason to exert physically with each shot, instead of point, or (since it looked like there was some interface element tied in with her eyes) merely look (and maybe make a simple physical movement to indicate a "fire" command at what you're looking at). Why make a weapons system that depends on the physical stamina of its operator, that also makes heavy demands on that stamina thus further limiting it, when that doesn't seem at all necessary? It's not like the force of the exertions is what powers the weapons.

I know that if your sticking with ‘in-universe’ explanations this kind of thing ain’t that interesting. But the weapons system is a big hang up for a lot of folks and a bit of the back story as to why it came about can explain what happened, and the knock on effects it created (things like energy bolt rather than beams).

http://www.themadgoner.com/B5/B5Scrolls/B5Scrolls.htm#Screen1_06_2


Basically cost and execs thinking the viewer couldn’t get the idea of a chair!! Amazing. (Not sure if the calm approach would have worked either)

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Basically cost and execs thinking the viewer couldn’t get the idea of a chair!! Amazing. (Not sure if the calm approach would have worked either)

Not exactly: It'd be a chair that has to spin in 3 dimensions, which is pretty expensive to build, and they were on a threadbare budget as it was. I mean, if we're going to complain about something, let's start with that horrible control room.

I really didn't like LOTR when I first saw it. Watched it a couple years ago for the second time ever, and kind of did. Poorly cast, and G'Kar is pretty much wasted, but it held my interest better than I'd figured. I think it could have made a good series. I asked JMS about the hand once or twice, but he ignored the question.

My hunch is that either The Hand were L'or'ien's race, or something specifically built by L'or'ien's race, similar to "The Vorlon's mistakes;" or the other possibility is that they're all a con-job: The Hand are just some random alien group using ancient tech to frighten the other races, and thereby gain power. In general I'm leaning towards the latter.

Really I'm more interested to know what happened to the Liandra's previous crew.

 

[Triple F]

Basically cost and execs thinking the viewer couldn’t get the idea of a chair!! Amazing. (Not sure if the calm approach would have worked either)

Not exactly: It'd be a chair that has to spin in 3 dimensions, which is pretty expensive to build, and they were on a threadbare budget as it was.

Yeaaaaahhhhh . . . . . . . that would be the cost bit, and here's a touch of the exec bit.

But the concept was also an extremely difficult sell at the time, not only to the network but
some of the artists and crew as well. Today of course, the idea of someone sitting
in a chair and manipulating complex weapons systems is commonplace (Atlantis)
but way back in the year 2000 it was thought the audience would find the scenario boring and confusing!

You've lost me when you said 'not exactly',

 

[Republibot 3.0]

But the concept was also an extremely difficult sell at the time, not only to the network but
some of the artists and crew as well. Today of course, the idea of someone sitting
in a chair and manipulating complex weapons systems is commonplace (Atlantis)
but way back in the year 2000 it was thought the audience would find the scenario boring and confusing!

You've lost me when you said 'not exactly',

You lost me when you said 'You've lost me.' Where did I lose you?

Anyway, the Stargate example isn't entirely fitting, since the 'alien defense chair' is basically just a recliner. Dude sits in it, reclines, and then we cut to SFX shots elsewhere. We don't even get to see what the guy sees, we're just told that it's all fed directly into his brain telepathically. Not really the same thing they were going for in LOTR.

 

[RW7427]

My hunch is that either The Hand were L'or'ien's race, or something specifically built by L'or'ien's race, similar to "The Vorlon's mistakes;" or the other possibility is that they're all a con-job: The Hand are just some random alien group using ancient tech to frighten the other races, and thereby gain power. In general I'm leaning towards the latter.

I always figured the Hand was something like the Thirdspace aliens. I never figured they'd have anything to do with Lorien, or even the Vorlons. If they had anything to do with any of the alien races from B5, I would have figured they were either related to the Shadows, were a creation of the Shadows, or were one of their lackeys like the Drakh.

 

[vacantlook]

I don't think we can really say with much of any sense of definity who the Hand were based on just "To Live And Die In Starlight". After all, who could say anything comparatively definitive about the Vorlons (or the Shadows, of whom we knew absolutely nothing) after just "The Gathering".

It is fun to speculate and dream though about what could've been. The Hand could have been something as fun as leftover Shadow technology having somehow gained sentience, since Shadow tech, after all, was biological. Since we know that the timing of the Rangers series was to have eventually coinsided with some of the timing of Crusade, and we know that Crusade would've dealt in leftover Shadow technology, such an origin for The Hand would have fit and would've provided a different angle for entering that storyline than Crusade would've used.

 

[Republibot 3.0]

Well, all the prepublicity stuff indicated that they were older than the Shadows. There was a line somewhere to the effect of "Remember the Shadows? Well these were the guys who used to take their lunch money when they were kids."

 

[Jan]

Yeah, and Kafta is the one who said it. Hardly what you'd call a source to be trusted. As I said, what was he gonna say, that his planet was so wimpy they just rolled over?

Jan

 

[Mike G]

The Hand... my guess is it was a bluff. We never saw them do anything that Human or Minbari were not capible of doing. Also... how can I say this without spoiling it... there was another JMS written piece involving a big bad who was a bluff which came after this.

 

[RW7427]

Well, all the prepublicity stuff indicated that they were older than the Shadows. There was a line somewhere to the effect of "Remember the Shadows? Well these were the guys who used to take their lunch money when they were kids."

True, but he could have been lying just to try and scare everyone.

 

[Sindatur]

Well, all the prepublicity stuff indicated that they were older than the Shadows. There was a line somewhere to the effect of "Remember the Shadows? Well these were the guys who used to take their lunch money when they were kids."

True, but he could have been lying just to try and scare everyone.

Yea, The Hand could be a reference to the Poker game Kafka just won (or lost) against formidable opponents. (He was quite the "poker" player and survivor)

 

[KoshN]

Well, all the prepublicity stuff indicated that they were older than the Shadows. There was a line somewhere to the effect of "Remember the Shadows? Well these were the guys who used to take their lunch money when they were kids."

True, but he could have been lying just to try and scare everyone.

Yea, The Hand could be a reference to the Poker game Kafka just won (or lost) against formidable opponents. (He was quite the "poker" player and survivor)

Up until they blew him up?

 

[Sindatur]

True, but he could have been lying just to try and scare everyone.

Yea, The Hand could be a reference to the Poker game Kafka just won (or lost) against formidable opponents. (He was quite the "poker" player and survivor)

Up until they blew him up?

Well yea...I did say was

 

[Republibot 3.0]

The Hand... my guess is it was a bluff. We never saw them do anything that Human or Minbari were not capible of doing. Also... how can I say this without spoiling it... there was another JMS written piece involving a big bad who was a bluff which came after this.

Oh! Spoil it! Spoil it! Or just PM me...

 

[Mike G]

Oh! Spoil it! Spoil it! Or just PM me...

I'll PM it.

 

[Lennier's Tears]

I just watched this for the first time ever... I vaguely remember being excited when I heard that it was in production, but then I didn't get the opportunity to actually see it and I only just bought the DVD earlier this year, shortly after starting another B5 rewatch. I hadn't really read much about it either, so I went in not really knowing what to expect.

Sometimes I wonder what Babylon 5 would look like to me if I had never seen it, and started watching it now, with new eyes. I honestly don't know how that would go, but I kinda think I would like it better than Legend of the Rangers ... I didn't HATE it. If there had been a series, I would have watched the next episode, although perhaps not with very high expectations.

Like many other people who posted in this thread, I found myself thinking about The Gathering, and what that would have looked like to me as a standalone thing (I didn't see The Gathering until I was already hooked on B5). It's just really hard to say. Babylon 5's excellence comes from the overall story, and you wouldn't have been able to guess how that was going to turn out based on The Gathering. Maybe Legend of the Rangers could have gone someplace really interesting as a series.

As a standalone thing, though, it's really just "meh". I'm somewhat pleased to see that I echo pretty much everyone when I say that the weapons system was ridiculous. It's not just me being overly critical. It was ridiculous as it was, but then there was that scene of Sarah just screaming ... I kinda wanted to hide under my couch at that point. I'm also in agreement with everyone who said that the "no retreat" thing was nonsensical.

This looked to me sort of like any of the dime a dozen new shows I sometimes check out on Netflix. I can't quite put my finger on what it is, exactly. It's not that the characters look too clean ... It's not fantasy, after all. Something about makeup, perhaps? Speaking of makeup ... The Minbari, Drazi, and Narn characters looked great ... Just like any Babyon 5 Minbari, Drazi, or Narn. But, what was going on with the makeup on the ghostly dead former crew? Was that intentionally bad? For what purpose?

And, speaking of ghostly dead crew members, don't Minbari (or, most Minbari? Religious caste Minbari?) believe in reincarnation? Why is communication with souls just hanging around a thing now? Minbari are sensitive to these things? When one is close to death the veil is particularly thin? What?

I had a moment of dread when I heard the words "archaeological dig". Not ANOTHER plot where evilly ambitious archaeologists unleash some great evil, associated with a powerful alien race! There already are two whole Babylon 5 movies (and one episode) built on exactly that premise. Fortunately the 'archaeological dig" turned out to be a somewhat minor part of the story ... just there so that some amazingly talented archaeolinguists could quickly decode some alien pictographs to gather just enough knowledge to further the plot. Convenient, that.

I'm not too bothered about "The Hand". That could have gone many directions if there had been a series. The weird thing was G'Kar making that comment about all spacefaring races having legends about "a great darkness" (or whatever the exact words were, I only watched it the one time). This is an odd comment in a post-Shadow War universe.