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EpDis: The War Prayer

Infection

  • A -- Excellent

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • B -- Good

    Votes: 2 33.3%

  • C -- Average

    Votes: 4 66.7%

  • D -- Poor

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • F -- Failure

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  • Total voters
    6
Another cracking ep for our dear Lieutenant Commander, once again proving that she is a DAN-GER-OUS woman to annoy! ;) That expression as she bins that rose is amazing. And I fully believe she would have blown the guy's head off. But we should note that this is yet another blow to the heart that she just holds in.....
 
C. Average ep. I see why it was there, it established things about the Centauri, Home Guard, etc - story building & establishment. The only notable line is the one about Londo's shoes.
 
I used to think this episode was blah, but am lately seeing more shades of interest in it than just Londo's shoes being too tight, especially after seeing the gamut of responses here.

I listened to a verbatim dramatisation of Mark Twain's "The War Prayer", though I'm still trying to understand the connection. Is it regarding those who are attracted to Home Guard but don't yet truly recognise it's about hurting and killing aliens, like Sinclair was acting?

Also, since Sinclair's "They let us win" was likely a reflection of his true anger toward the Minbari after the war, I wonder what changed his mind so he could be so friendly with Delenn in The Gathering.

Why does Kosh shut down?
 
This may not be one of the best episodes, but one thing does strike me upon rewatching: its message is more timely than ever. The paranoia shown is present in so many societies today. Unlike Star Trek, where humans have managed to overcome all such tendencies, B5 shows that we don't learn from the past. Two hundred years are not enough to erase our fears and prejudices.

And yes, I too was very touched by Londo's line about shoes and dancing.
 
It's a fairly average episode ... There actually isn't anything I dislike in it. There isn't anything really truly fantastic in it, either ... I do like how there's all these story elements that are part of the bigger story and/or minor details that will be relevant later. I like all the Homeguard stuff, I think that would have been a good story even if it wasn't part of the main arc. Ivanova's terrible luck with relationship isn't exactly "main arc" but it's definitely important to the character.

Random little things:
  • That sweater Malcolm wears early on in the episode made me laugh out loud. That suit he wears for the formal event later is nice, though. It has a vaguely 19th century look to it with that collar thing although it's definitely 23rd century B5 universe style :)
  • I sort of want to be judgmental about Ivanova being a terrible judge of character. I mean, the dude is not just a casual bigot, he's actually planning multiple murders. As Garibaldi says, "a man can change a lot in 8 years", but ... sheesh. Malcolm says he and Ivanova spent entire days just talking. What did they talk about? Killing aliens because they "took our jobs" ? :p
  • Sinclair sums up the events from The Gathering for those of us who didn't see the pilot :) He can't be the only person wondering how the poison got into Kosh's system through that encounter suit.
  • Those aren't the same three wives Londo has later on. I mean, they are different actors, they are presumably the same characters. When we meet them, he seems like he's been married to all of them for quite a while.
  • Do only rich Centauri have arranged marriages? There must be some tradition of marrying for love, the concept doesn't seem alien to them.
  • I can see Aria's bald cap wrinkling up in the back of the neck when she turns her head. I think I had the same complaint about Lyndisty in "Sic Transit Vir". I think all the Centauri women who have actual lines are wearing bald caps, while at least some of the background Centauri women are actually bald. I guess if you normally wear your hair long, you're not going to want to cut it all off to appear in a single episode of a show. It takes a long time to grow back and they have jobs where their appearance is kind of important.. So, I get it. But, I don't much like the look of bald caps.
  • Sinclair plays a pretty good bigot :p
 
>Centauri marrying for love

Having just read the Legions of Fire series which deals with the Centauri between the end of the show and the.... things that deal with Centauri for two decades after the show, they went into it a smidge.

Basically it's the same as monarchies in the past. The higher you go in society the less choice you have. You're free to marry for love if your family doesn't need the power that would be gained. The woman is rarely consulted in a meaningful manner.
 
Wulf said:
>Centauri marrying for love

Having just read the Legions of Fire series which deals with the Centauri between the end of the show and the.... things that deal with Centauri for two decades after the show, they went into it a smidge.

Basically it's the same as monarchies in the past. The higher you go in society the less choice you have. You're free to marry for love if your family doesn't need the power that would be gained. The woman is rarely consulted in a meaningful manner.
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Thanks, that makes sense. It's exactly what I would have expected.
 
>that sweater
I caught that too. "That sweater". Enough said.

>poor judge of character
Well, I sort of see it. It's easy to overlook "Damn Bonehead cut in front of me at the grocery story today, go back to Minbar already!" when you're with somebody that looks that incredibly dreamy in a sweater like that. Especially when you're young. I dunno how old the Ivanova character is, but I can see 8 years ago being on the generous side of "young and stupid". So she writes it off as all talk even though she knows he's speciesist, and 8 years can be a long time for a seed of hatred to grow into a mighty oak of intolerance.

Especially if the guy's hanging out with military types that have access to the latest hardware. These would be the guys who are actually paid to kill aliens and have lots of reasons to hate them, so they would not be a calming influence.

Also, she's a terrible judge of character.

>poison into the suit
I believe this scene was lifted from an earlier episode and dropped here for time. It seemed slightly out of place, but probably not enough to care if I hadn't read that somewhere. I'd have preferred they not bring it up if they weren't going to answer the question at some point. All the theories work best if left to the imagination, not so much when even the characters don't know.




It seems like this assassination plot was foiled rather easily and they never try again. The ambassadors are easy targets. No extra security is ever implemented, and it would be easy to slip some guys in to shiv them in a hallway at night.

The stealth suits seem pretty superfluous to the story. They never use them for anything that "hiding behind a box" wouldn't solve, and as mentioned, are never seen again.

Ivanova taking over the coffee growing seems kind of lame. Does it ever come up again? I like that JMS had drop-in replacements for everybody in case of cast changes, but most of the others were unique characters. The coffee thing seems too much like she's dropping into the same character.

In purple, Londo is stunning, even if his shoes are too tight.
 
Wulf said:
Ivanova taking over the coffee growing seems kind of lame. Does it ever come up again? I like that JMS had drop-in replacements for everybody in case of cast changes, but most of the others were unique characters. The coffee thing seems too much like she's dropping into the same character.
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Perhaps the coffee plants are meant to be the same. As in, maybe when Ivanova took over, Takashima gave her a guided tour of the station and custody of her coffee plants. She was leaving, so she wasn't going to be using them anymore. Maybe they were old friends.


As for Ivanova being a terrible judge of character, I do agree that she must have been quite young in 2250. It's a lot easier to miss things when one is young. I myself have been quite surprised by some of the views/opinions expressed by people years (decades? :p ) after I dated them (Isn't Facebook grand?). None of them have turned to murdering people for their beliefs though. Not yet, anyway! :p
 
I'm rewatching the series and just got to this one. I like the episode overall, and agree that it usefully extends the "anti alien paranoia" thread that eventually becomes so important to the story. The one drawback for me is Shaal Mayan. I find her patronizing and infuriatingly smug, getting snippy with Garibaldi as he's trying to investigate the attack on her, or lecturing Londo on the power of love (not that he couldn't use one--I just object to her tone, and her as the messenger). The worst is the final scene, where she and Delenn and G'Kar are tut-tutting about how full of hate the humans are "for no real reason." Well, lady, trying to exterminate your race has a tendency to tick you off a little. You'd think as a supposedly sensitive poet, she'd get that.

Still, it's a minor blemish in an otherwise good story in a sometimes blemished but overall amazing sci fi series.
 
Dorvo said:
I'm rewatching the series and just got to this one. I like the episode overall, and agree that it usefully extends the "anti alien paranoia" thread that eventually becomes so important to the story. The one drawback for me is Shaal Mayan. I find her patronizing and infuriatingly smug, getting snippy with Garibaldi as he's trying to investigate the attack on her, or lecturing Londo on the power of love (not that he couldn't use one--I just object to her tone, and her as the messenger). The worst is the final scene, where she and Delenn and G'Kar are tut-tutting about how full of hate the humans are "for no real reason." Well, lady, trying to exterminate your race has a tendency to tick you off a little. You'd think as a supposedly sensitive poet, she'd get that.

Still, it's a minor blemish in an otherwise good story in a sometimes blemished but overall amazing sci fi series.
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I don't find her annoying, but I can definitely see where you're coming from. She's definitely a bit smug here and there. I'm kinda glad I don't find her too annoying because that would take away from my enjoyment of the episode. I tend to be overly sensitive to characters I find annoying. Obviously they don't make the story bad or unrealistic, but I just can't get over how annoying they are ... It's worse with sneakily evil characters, they tend to stress me out.
 
I read about the 4 horseman - link to Londo's wife in the Lurkers guide. They're speculating there, that Londo might be the 4th one: war.
I think the 4th one might be Adira: Sure, she herself is not playing an active role that leads to war. But: her assassination brought Londo so low, that he didn't care for anything anymore, which ultimately lead to the war...
 
Moonface said:
I read about the 4 horseman - link to Londo's wife in the Lurkers guide. They're speculating there, that Londo might be the 4th one: war.
I think the 4th one might be Adira: Sure, she herself is not playing an active role that leads to war. But: her assassination brought Londo so low, that he didn't care for anything anymore, which ultimately lead to the war...
Click to expand...




Well technically Londo was married once before he married Timov. To the dancer he tells Garibaldi about. So we'd need a fifth horseman before it could be Adira since she wasn't his wife.



I still prefer the interpretation of Londo being War as it applies at the time time he said it, and not a few seasons later.
 
Karajorma said:
Moonface said:
I read about the 4 horseman - link to Londo's wife in the Lurkers guide. They're speculating there, that Londo might be the 4th one: war.
I think the 4th one might be Adira: Sure, she herself is not playing an active role that leads to war. But: her assassination brought Londo so low, that he didn't care for anything anymore, which ultimately lead to the war...
Click to expand...

Well technically Londo was married once before he married Timov. To the dancer he tells Garibaldi about. So we'd need a fifth horseman before it could be Adira since she wasn't his wife.

I still prefer the interpretation of Londo being War as it applies at the time time he said it, and not a few seasons later.
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Well... If you replace "wife" with "significant other" then Adira is still in the game and her influence about his course of action if far greater than any of his other significant others.

And to dismiss anything that has payoff in a later season is of course possible, but I'm not sure that that's the best way of going about it in a show like B5 ;)
 
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