EpDis: Z'ha'dum

[Alluveal]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Naw, the Vorlons aren't evil just as the Shadows really aren't evil. They represent an ideology: order VS chaos. I don't even think Ulkesh was necessarily evil, just fanatic and narrow.

I love Claudia's work. I can't find any weak moments, but I see her as this strict Russian who never lets emotion out. It's not entirely easy for her to BE emotional (Ivanova.) One of my favorite expressions from her is when they're sending Kosh's ship away and it goes into the sun. The look on her face, the tears in her eyes. Her looks say more than any words could.

And the scene when she is crying in Franklin's arms is one of the most harrowing and heart-breaking scenes I've ever seen on television.

 

[Sindatur]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Where she tended to come up short (at least in comparison to the likes of AK, PJ, and MF) was when she needed to summon emotion entirely internally (such as entering the scene cold to tell Sheridan about EF's destruction of unarmed refugee ships).

Is it really fair to compare anyone's acting skills to Mira, Andreas or Peter? They're in a class all their own, IMHO.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

Naw, the Vorlons aren't evil just as the Shadows really aren't evil. They represent an ideology: order VS chaos. I don't even think Ulkesh was necessarily evil, just fanatic and narrow.

Well I guess it depends on what we mean by "evil." I personally don't like the word because it seems to imply that it's some sort of force that gets a hold of people or something.

So to me, "evil," is the same "really bad things," defined by some sort of morality and ethics that we as humans decide is right and therefore judged by action, not justification, for everyone has some sort of "justification." Serial killers were abused, Saddam Hussein was "pacifying" his population, Hitler and Milosovich were preserving their race, the janjaweed right now are protecting their own, etc. All "justified"- all evil.

but I see her as this strict Russian who never lets emotion out.

Yeah, that's the idea, but she sure does let it out a lot.

Is it really fair to compare anyone's acting skills to Mira, Andreas or Peter? They're in a class all their own, IMHO.

They're all actors.

 

[Alluveal]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

You also have to take into consideration the character and the way their parts are written.

 

[KoshFan]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

[continues to hijack the thread]

Kosh certainly had his share of horrors on his hands. But he also restrained the other Vorlons from doing even worse things, and eventually (through his relationship with Sheridan) was redeemed.

 

[Alluveal]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

I always wondered who Kosh was in the hierarchy of things. He had to be pretty important to the Vorlons.

 

[aajay]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

For some reason I always hear the song Xanadu in my head when I hear/see Z'ha'dum.

 

[RW7427]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum



I don't think it compares to Xanadu though.

 

[KoshN]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

....picturing Olivia Newton-John as The Eye.

 

[GKarsEye]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

RUSH
Xanadu

"To seek the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
To break my fast on honeydew
And drink the milk of Paradise..."

I had heard the whispered tales of immortality
The deepest mystery
From an ancient book I took a clue
I scaled the frozen mountain tops of eastern lands unknown
Time and Man alone
Searching for the lost Xanadu

Xanadu...

To stand within the Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste anew the fruits of life
The last immortal man
To find the sacred river Alph
To walk the caves of ice
Oh, I will dine on honeydew
And drink the milk of Paradise

A thousand years have come and gone but time has passed me by
Stars stopped in the sky
Frozen in an everlasting view
Waiting for the world to end, weary of the night
Praying for the light
Prison of the lost
Xanadu

Xanadu...

Held within the Pleasure Dome
Decreed by Kubla Khan
To taste my bitter triumph
As a mad immortal man
Nevermore shall I return
Escape these caves of ice
For I have dined on honeydew
And drunk the milk of Paradise


--this song preceded by a 3 minute musical intro...

(trust me folks, Rush got way better shortly after this album)

 

[Elric]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

With out a doubt this ep is one of the finest moments of not just B5, but of television shows in general. A good example of how intense drama is far more engaging than lots of action and ships blowing the crap out of each other.

This episode also has the ultimate in cliff hangers, Sheriden jumping and Garibaldi going missing were great season enders, but what really made it for me was G'Kars speech voiced over various scenes in B5 and at Z'ha'dum - expertly spoken, and a reminder of what a great actor Andreas was.

I remember first watching it on TV with quite a few friends. When G'Kars speech was finished and the images faded away, we were all speechless.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

I remember back when we were all watching that guy as he went through watching B5, and had a huge rolling thread where he posted his thoughts on it and talked with everyone about it as he went along. Most here should remember it.

Anyhow, he went through the usual progression, a bit slow in season 1, starting to pick it up in season 2, and everyone kept saying "just wait till season 3".

People kept dubbing "Severed Dreams" as THE episode that would just make him go "woah", but in the end he saw that episode and his reaction was kind of "meh" and that it was good, but not as good as advertised by everyone. Anyhow, a few days/weeks later he simply posted the following:

HOLY SH*T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And that was the whole post.





He had just watched Z'ha'dum.

 

[RW7427]

Re: EpDis: Z\'ha\'dum

That's what makes B5 so good. There are lots of episodes to say HOLY SH*T after watching.

 

[Elipsis]

Heavy and emotional. Just watched it with commentary, yes there was some cheating going on with the intercutting, but it makes the episode work. Can't give this anything but an A.

 

[Telepath]

One of the best episodes of B5. When I firsted watched this ep, it was so touching I had to stay up late at night to watch it a second time. A+ stuff.

 

[Kaz]

I gotta admit this episode had me glued to the screen the whole way through. Superb performances from evey member of the cast. Great way to set up intrigue for the following season.

 

[Cannonade]

I agree, it is one of my favourites.

I just love the part when Kosh tells Sheridan to jump down that massive chasm. That takes a lot of guts and trust to do that.

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I agree, it is one of my favourites.

I just love the part when Kosh tells Sheridan to jump down that massive chasm. That takes a lot of guts and trust to do that.

Yes, BUT - Sheridan knew he would be vaporized if he didn't, so he wasn't really risking his life, because he had already taken actions he was sure would lead to his death. He thought he had no choice, and Kosh offered him one.

 

[Galahad]

However.... based on the information to hand, which would you prefer? An instantaneous death at ground zero of a nuclear assault, or tumbling down a chasm not knowing how deep... possibly cracking your bones against rock on the way down and then if not dying from the shock of hitting terminal velociy on decent... feeling yourself smack into the ground before finally dying?

 

[Jade Jaguar]

I'd stay alive as long as I could, however I could. Your statement is a good reason for Sheridan not to decide to jump on his own. But, Kosh's statement is enough to give it a try...